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Grease seals for Cleveland Wheels

chaskuss

Well Known Member
The older Cleveland Wheels come with felt seals to retain the grease and keep dirt out. I'm wondering if anyone has switched over to actual oil seals on these wheels to retain the grease? Does anybody know the reason why Cleveland uses felt seals? Is it because they don't create drag on the Wheel? If you have switched over to actual oil / grease seals, could you give me a National or Chicago Rawhide part number?

Charlie

PS I'm sure this has been discussed before. I used the search function but couldn't find any threads related to this question. That seems odd to me. However I have noticed that posts that I have made years ago often I cannot find Now using the search feature.
 
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Charlie the better solution is to switch to an inexpensive double sealed bearing. This is what Allen from AntiSplat does. I have the bearing # if interested. You would have to turn your wheels on a lathe to modify them.

On Grove wheels you can install seals that are used on amphibious wheels. On my Rocket I modded the axles to have a zerk and this type of grease seal but I'm considering changing them over to the sealed bearings.
 
Charlie the better solution is to switch to an inexpensive double sealed bearing. I have the bearing # if interested. You would have to turn your wheels on a lathe to modify them.

Bob, I have bought a lot of stuff from Allen at Antisplat, however having a frequently used aircraft and being on the other side of the planet effectively rules out sending my wheels to him for modification.

I would be grateful to know which bearing # to use for a modification to my Cleveland wheels.

Thanks, Mal.
 
The Timken 473237 seems to fit a 1 3/4" axle Diameter, and a 2.374" Housing Bore. I believe the two seat RV's have a 1 1/4" axle.

Cheers, David
RV-6A KBTF
 
The Timken 473237 seems to fit a 1 3/4" axle Diameter, and a 2.374" Housing Bore. I believe the two seat RV's have a 1 1/4" axle.

Cheers, David
RV-6A KBTF

David,
I don't think the seals for the bearings ride on the axle itself. Referencing my drawing C3, I believe the seals ride on the U405 spacers. I may be wrong about that. Can anyone else verify or refute that?

Charlie
 
David,
I don't think the seals for the bearings ride on the axle itself. Referencing my drawing C3, I believe the seals ride on the U405 spacers. I may be wrong about that. Can anyone else verify or refute that?

Charlie

Correct. This is how amphibious setups work.
 
I know there are options out there but I have always used, and been happy with, the Cleveland felt seals. I just clean them with Spirits and blow them off and re pack. Easy! Oh, AND cheap!:)
Nordo
 
I know there are options out there but I have always used, and been happy with, the Cleveland felt seals. I just clean them with Spirits and blow them off and re pack. Easy! Oh, AND cheap!:)
Nordo

Al,
In other words, if it ain't broke don't fix it! I've always wondered if the use of the felt seals was part of the reason why the Cleveland wheels don't seem to had the stiction problems that the Matco Wheels do?
 
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My bad!

I have Matco wheels on order....what?s a STICTION problem????

Uh-oh. Always behind the curve...
Thanks

I probably should have used past tense, had instead of have. When Vans first switched over from Cleveland to Matco Wheels owners started noticing that the A models using the Matco Wheels had more of a tendency to flip over or bend thea nose gear leg under when landing on unimproved runways. I believe that was the genesis of the Anti Splat company . His first products were dedicated to fixing that issue. My understanding is that Matco has since redesigned the wheel and corrected the issue. Stiction is friction caused by drag from the oil seals and bearings. There are numerous threads about this issue on this website. You can do a search for them.

Charlie
 
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The seal I referenced is on my RV6A mains with the original Cleveland wheels. The ID of the seal rides on the spacer. I fly off of grass. With the old felt seals my red grease was black at each annual, and if I got into any mud I had a good chance of loosing the bearings (3 times).
With the rubber seals in place, I usually go 2 years between re-packing and when I do the grease is still coming out red.
Oh, and the repacking of my bearings went from being one of the longest tasks of my annual to being a 15 minute job.
My conclusion: if you don't fix it till it's broke; it will be broke soon...

Also, there was a suggestion on this thread about replacing the coned bearings with a set of sealed bearings. That is fine on the nose wheel, but the sealed bearings are not intended for side loading, and should not be used on the mains.
 
Lots of grass strips in Florida

Thank you everyone for your input. I checked with my local auto parts store. The 473237 is a good number, however none of his local warehouses stock it and he didn't have it in stock. FYI, that part number is also used by National and Federal Mogul. Checking around, I found some for $8.99 plus shipping. I made an offer to buy 4, if he absorbed the shipping. He said yes and they are now on their way to me. These are double lip seals. The outer lip keeps the dirt out, the inner lip keeps the grease in. They are also available in Viton [$$] by adding the letter V to the end of the part number.

Charlie

PS I'm going to hang on to the felt seals, as well. It appears that #473237 was used as a front crankshaft seal on older auto engines.
 
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I was under the impression that with the newer 40-78B 5.00X5 wheel kits (Van's RV-3 through RV-9) the felts were replaced with molded seals.

Digging through Cleveland's catalog, it shows a molded grease seal (PN#154-13000), instead of the felt grease seal sandwiched between two "grease seal rings".

ACS has both the felts and the molded grease seals.

I've been using the felts on my Sonerai because they're cheaper and they work just fine.
 
A Cleveland PRODUCT REFERENCE MEMO http://www.parker.com/parkerimages/Parker.com/Literature/Aircraft%20Wheel%20&%20Brake%20Division/Kit%20Documents/199-266%20Kit.pdf addresses replacement of the felt seals with the molded grease seal (PN#154-13000).

It states that the reason is "A product improvement in the bearing grease retention system as a replacement to the current felt seal configuration.', and "molded bearing seal configuration is available that will significantly improve the prevention of water infiltration into the bearing hub area providing more protection against possible bearing corrosion."

Instructions for our Cleveland 5.00-5 wheels PN: 40-78B are found on page 15 of the document.

Cheers, David
RV-6A A&P
 
Looking at the SB the seal is retained with the original snap ring. I'm not sure why it would be necessary since these seals should be press fit but I am curious about it.
 
I'm giving the 473237 seals a try on a RV-6 I'm working on. They press in perfectly and the dimensions are correct. However. The spacers are too short for the outer lip of the seal to properly contact the spacer. They will work as-is but slightly thicker spacers are recommended. Not a problem if you have a lathe to make new spacers. Longer spacers would require modifying the axle nut so the cotter key would fit in a different hole by slotting the appropriate hole.

Note the 473237 seals are much thicker than whats listed in the Cleveland SB, and do not require the snap ring. I believe the 473237 seals are superior since they are constructed with a spring on the inner lip.
 
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to OP: reason

The felt seals were specified to avoid wear on the axles.
I've seen wheels with poor/ no maintenance [where the felts were allowed to harden with grease/dirt, forming a "nice" cutting edge]. And I've seen 'rubber' seals that created the same or worse wear. The felts do the job if used correctly, are light, and easily maintained.
Whatever seal you use, remember that it will be going from zero to 80 literally 'in nothing flat' --- so maintenance is key.
 
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