What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Wow Been a while for me But 1 Post?

BillFZ1

I'm New Here
Sad to see that the alternative engines discussion has dwindled to a single post. This forum has always been a bit anti-auto, but it is now almost gone. I'm working on a Mazda rotary engine package that is now mounted on an RV-3. Should be flying shortly after the start of the year.
Bill
 
Welcome to VAF!

Bill, welcome aboard the good ship VAF.

The various forums all default to only showing the last 30 days of activity-----you can look back farther by simply using the drop down menu at the lower left of the page. Look for "display options" and select the time frame with the drop down in "from the" then click "show threads"
 
Last edited:
Lots of topics have only a few posts, they get archived. There is one guy "shipchief" I think, that had a wankel in his for a while. He converted to a Lyc, but had a lot of posts about the development.

I would not get worked up about challengers, most do their experimenting in other ways. Anything off Vans Plan usually gets lots of discussion. Auto conversions have a lot of challenges to compete on reliability, durability, and efficiency. Much they are better on cost per hour though. Hats off to a person that gets through the development with a competitive installation. It is a lot of dedicated work!!
 
Corvair in RV-3

I am 10 hours into flight testing a 3100 Corvair engine in an RV-3 that was finished this spring. Working thru things like a heavy wing, high Cht's and high oil temps.

Bill Newkirk
 
Sad to see that the alternative engines discussion has dwindled to a single post. This forum has always been a bit anti-auto, but it is now almost gone. I'm working on a Mazda rotary engine package that is now mounted on an RV-3. Should be flying shortly after the start of the year.
Bill

Friend of mine flew 350 hours in a Mazda power RV6. Only issue was cooling which was solved by two radiators one in each cowl opening plumb in series, parallel does not work, and a Mazda oil radiator under the engine.

I flew his other Mazda powered aircraft, flying boat for 20 seconds, until the apex seals seized solid, managed to deadstick onto another runway. This engine had 50 hours total in another plane.

RV6 flew OK, not quite the power output of my RV6 with 160hp 320, this was only noticeable during initial climb.
 
I am 10 hours into flight testing a 3100 Corvair engine in an RV-3 that was finished this spring. Working thru things like a heavy wing, high Cht's and high oil temps.

Bill Newkirk

Congrats on getting in the air. There are lots of Corvair powered aircraft around, my hanger mate has a Corvair powered Zenith 601. As an alternative engine guy myself, I find that the online community of fellow Subaru pilots is invaluable. I hope you have a group you can communicate with for the Corvair engine. I'm sure they could give advice on Cooling.

-Andy
 
Apex Seals Froze, etc.

Friend of mine flew 350 hours in a Mazda power RV6. Only issue was cooling which was solved by two radiators one in each cowl opening plumb in series, parallel does not work, and a Mazda oil radiator under the engine.

I flew his other Mazda powered aircraft, flying boat for 20 seconds, until the apex seals seized solid, managed to deadstick onto another runway. This engine had 50 hours total in another plane.

RV6 flew OK, not quite the power output of my RV6 with 160hp 320, this was only noticeable during initial climb.

What was the reason for the frozen apex seals? Forgot to mix 2 cycle oil with the gas? Also, do you remember what PSRU the RV6 had, and if it had a carb or was fuel injected? Cooling drag can definitely be an issue as it's really challenging to hang and plumb radiators under the cowling in such a tight space, etc.

Doug
RV-9A Mazda 13B/FWF
RV-3A "Alternative" engine O-290 "G" :) Sold
 
What was the reason for the frozen apex seals? Forgot to mix 2 cycle oil with the gas? Also, do you remember what PSRU the RV6 had, and if it had a carb or was fuel injected? Cooling drag can definitely be an issue as it's really challenging to hang and plumb radiators under the cowling in such a tight space, etc.

Doug
RV-9A Mazda 13B/FWF
RV-3A "Alternative" engine O-290 "G" :) Sold

Never did find out why they seized. You could do chine ups on the prop.

They were very experienced Mazda operators and yes there was oil in the fuel.
The PSRU was a Ross unit with modes done to the bearings.

The radiators where air conditioning units that fitted very nicely in the openings and the oil radiator fitted very nicely under the engine, you could not tell they where there.

It was fuel injected using a system purchased from Tracy in Florida.

If you would like to discuss it first hand with the owner I could PM you his email
 
RV-3 List

Sad to see that the alternative engines discussion has dwindled to a single post. This forum has always been a bit anti-auto, but it is now almost gone. I'm working on a Mazda rotary engine package that is now mounted on an RV-3. Should be flying shortly after the start of the year.
Bill

Bill: I hope you'll upload some photos of your project to the RV-3 Status of your Project folder! It's always cool to see how others are overcoming the challenging issues of having radiators and fabricating intake and exhaust systems.

Doug

RV-9A Mazda 13B/ FWF
 
Bill,

You're on the Flyrotary list, I assume? You can post photos (<200K message size) over there without getting Rube Goldberg involved. :)
 
Never did find out why they seized. You could do chine ups on the prop.

They were very experienced Mazda operators and yes there was oil in the fuel.
The PSRU was a Ross unit with modes done to the bearings.

The radiators where air conditioning units that fitted very nicely in the openings and the oil radiator fitted very nicely under the engine, you could not tell they where there.

It was fuel injected using a system purchased from Tracy in Florida.

If you would like to discuss it first hand with the owner I could PM you his email

I'd love to hear more about seized apex seals causing a seized up engine. I've never heard of that happening. I've heard of rare cases of bearing seizures (typically highly boosted auto racing applications), and apex seals seizing in the slot, causing hard-to-start issues, but I've never heard of an apex seal seizure causing the engine freeze up.

Did he *break* an apex seal, and it get wedged in a combustion chamber?

Charlie
 
I'd love to hear more about seized apex seals causing a seized up engine. I've never heard of that happening. I've heard of rare cases of bearing seizures (typically highly boosted auto racing applications), and apex seals seizing in the slot, causing hard-to-start issues, but I've never heard of an apex seal seizure causing the engine freeze up.

Did he *break* an apex seal, and it get wedged in a combustion chamber?

Charlie

They did not strip the engine to determine the exact cause. It was their opinion it was the apex seals.

The engine was turning 5200 on take off then dropped to 3500 and final seized solid as power was reduced to idle, all within about 20 second.

It was seized solid, absolutely no movement possible until the next morning when it moved about an inch.
 
They did not strip the engine to determine the exact cause. It was their opinion it was the apex seals.

The engine was turning 5200 on take off then dropped to 3500 and final seized solid as power was reduced to idle, all within about 20 second.

It was seized solid, absolutely no movement possible until the next morning when it moved about an inch.

So, did they remove the reduction drive to check whether it was the engine or the drive that seized?
 
It's a real shame they didn't do any analysis. The description sounds more like a bearing seizure, but we'll never know since they didn't tear the engine down.

Any data logging on temps, oil pressure, etc? Was the engine running any kind of boost?
 
It's a real shame they didn't do any analysis. The description sounds more like a bearing seizure, but we'll never know since they didn't tear the engine down.

Any data logging on temps, oil pressure, etc? Was the engine running any kind of boost?

By boost I assume you mean turbo. No.

I was just the test pilot, I will see if Jim the builder will provide his email address to you. He was deeply involved in Mazda engines and can answer all your questions
 
Apex Seal Failure?

Yes they did. It was the engine

Did you guys put some ground hours on the engine at higher power settings prior to that first flight? I know some installations' where water / oil cooling limitations makes this an impossibility, etc.

Re. apex seal failure: that's just not something I have seen occur very often in watching Mazdas powering A/C, since the mid 90's. The only apex seal failure I recall was one that ingested some metal, and it embedded itself in the rotor as well as destroying one apex seal (with the resulting loss of power)...

Glad all went well.

Doug
 
Photos of the RV-3

How about some photos of the RV-3?

Thanks!

Dave
RV-3B, now on the fuselage

Dave,
I will be posting some when we are flying. My partner and I both believe that a flying example is the best way to expose what we are doing to everyone. Once flying a great deal of the baloney is cleared away. It won't be long. This package has flown before. We are simply bringing it back to life.
Bill
 
Did you guys put some ground hours on the engine at higher power settings prior to that first flight? I know some installations' where water / oil cooling limitations makes this an impossibility, etc.

Re. apex seal failure: that's just not something I have seen occur very often in watching Mazdas powering A/C, since the mid 90's. The only apex seal failure I recall was one that ingested some metal, and it embedded itself in the rotor as well as destroying one apex seal (with the resulting loss of power)...

Glad all went well.

Doug

Doug,
Wankels are subject to FOD as much as anything else. YES we have been thoroughly testing at high power. We have run it for hours at what should be cruise RPM and flat out with the small ports we are using on this engine around 6400. With a free flowing muffler 190-195 HP. The aircraft dyno doesn't give an accurate picture however since our biggest problem has been OVERcooling. We have most of the radiator and oil cooler covered with cardboard! I haven't seen an actual apex seal failure in about 15 years. That was even from poor assembly.

Bill
 
Back
Top