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Opinions about solder sleeves

I had the smaller kit of those. I went through ALL of the smallest (white) ones, about half of the red ones, and only one or two of the blue ones. I used the red ones mostly for making tails for the CANBUS connections at each G3X LRU. The whites worked great to make pig tails from the wire shielding to a 22ga wire which then had a ring terminal crimped on and then screwed to the Garmin connector on each LRU.

I'm currently building a Bearhawk and I *really* wish I knew about/had these way back when I built my RV-8 20 years ago.

That 330 piece kit should do ya....
 
I started using solder sleeves working on NASA hardware a long time ago. I use them whenever I can. I can’t ever recall a failure unless I failed to overlap the wires initially. I use Raychem sleeves exclusively. Steinair and Aircraft Spruce sell them. They are designed with 63/37 solder and have an installation temperature indicator built in.
Mike
 
I can’t ever recall a failure unless I failed to overlap the wires initially.

+1 on that.
As always, try to buy quality, and the stuff sold on Amazon usually ain't (bought some, keep them exclusively for my RC models, but only for the foamies :D).
Used the ones sold by ACS extensively on different avionics updates, very happy with those.
 
I personally wouldn't use Amazon sourced stuff for anything mission critical. Some of it might be just fine, but seems like you wouldn't have any idea what the quality control standard was (if any).

If you're asking about solder selves in general then yeah, Raychem ones will last forever if they are installed properly. They are widely used in the certified world.
 
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Saw this kit on Amazon and thought it would be handy to have these in the shop for wiring. Anyone here uses these? Are the ones from Stein air better?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B087RBLV1H?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image

I am using the red one for the small wire gauge 18 and smaller (20 & 22)

I am also using the blue for the shield audio cable which is larger than the small wires within. I use the blue to connect the comm ground to the shielded part of the cable.

I also purchase something like this and I am using them to connect the few wires that I found ran short. Some people prefer the crimp type to join the wires but it is really bulky compare to the solder joint. It's easy to use because you will see the solder flowing at the right temperature and you are done. If you need additional protection for the joint, wrap another length of shrink sleeve. My crimped connection will fail before my solder sleeve connection (due to user's error mostly)
 
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Opinion - I like them but they would be better if they came with that missing 3rd hand needed to hold each side, and then the heating element.
 
Opinion - I like them but they would be better if they came with that missing 3rd hand needed to hold each side, and then the heating element.

Here are some photos of fixtures that provide for a third hand.
 

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My favorite 3rd pair of hands are my wire strippers. They make a great wire fixture for soldering or heat shrink.
The best bit is they are always on hand if you are playing with wires.
 
Has anyone by chance compiled some part numbers for the Raychem solder sleeves in the common sizes we would use?

I have some from Stein, but they don’t say what they are etc. For those of us not in the US, it would be great to be able to get them from DigiKey etc.
 
I will not use solder sleeves for wire splicing, shield terminations are the only thing I use them for.
Properly done crimp splices are quicker, easier and extremely reliable.
 
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I would use them for that - long before I'd trust a crimped butt splice on 26 gauge wire, at least in my hands and with my tooling. Solder sleeves, properly installed in a bundle properly secured, should last the life of an airframe. I wish we could use them on thermocouple wiring instead of the janky AMP PIDG fast-ons that invariably lead to dancing bar graphs on the engine monitor. Those I've had to replace pair by pair with phenolic sleeves with Allen screws in each end.
 
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I've not had any luck using the Amazon kit because the shrink plastic sleeve melted away before the solder melted. I put them back on the shelf and went back to old school method using a solder joint then shrink tube.
I also saw a YT vid showing hardly any solder penetration inside the wire splice. That was a no-go for me.
Note, I've used Stein's solder splices for years without issues.
 
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I would use them for that - long before I'd trust a crimped butt splice on 26 gauge wire, at least in my hands and with my tooling. Solder sleeves, properly installed in a bundle properly secured, should last the life of an airframe. I wish we could use them on thermocouple wiring instead of the janky AMP PIDG fast-ons that invariably lead to dancing bar graphs on the engine monitor. Those I've had to replace pair by pair with phenolic sleeves with Allen screws in each end.

26ga wire is stupid in aircraft and I won't use that either, typically 22ga is the smallest used.

As for the TC fast-on's, after 17 years and 2k hours with my original EI probes and wiring I think I had to clean the connectors a couple of times, so overall pretty good service.

Not a fan of the new ones they use, I had a few wires break from the damage to the wire from the hex screw.
 
Plenty of avionics shops don’t use them. Probably for a reason.
I’ve just finished my fourth panel build and I’ve used plenty of them but to be honest I actually find it just as quick and guaranteed effective first time around to use an iron and heat shrink. I wouldn’t use them for splicing.

I think they can be a time saver if you know exactly how to use them, use quality ones, and have a proper gun and shield that heats them evenly around the circumference. But I think there’s more involved to get a reliable result than meets the eye so now tend to just use them for one offs or where access is an issue etc.
 
26ga wire is stupid in aircraft and I won't use that either, typically 22ga is the smallest used.

As for the TC fast-on's, after 17 years and 2k hours with my original EI probes and wiring I think I had to clean the connectors a couple of times, so overall pretty good service.

Not a fan of the new ones they use, I had a few wires break from the damage to the wire from the hex screw.

Sorry, meant to say 24 gauge (what RC Allen uses on their servos and position sensors).

I have replaced numerous pairs of AMP PIDG Fast-ons in my EGT and CHT probe collection due to erratic indications, and the barrel/hex screw connectors have solved the issue every time. Longevity not yet certain, but the Fast-ons were becoming wonky within Phase 1, on well-secured FWF wire bundles. Who knows. But solder is a no-no for thermocouple wire bonding, I'm told.
 
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I will not use solder sleeves for wire splicing, shield terminations are the only thing I use them for.
Properly done crimp splices are quicker, easier and extremely reliable.

Walt,

Which crimp terminals do you use? I'm certain they aren't all created equal.

schu
 
Coincidentally, did my first shield termination of the project today.

Grateful if anyone has any feedback. It doesn’t really look like much solder to me, but the solder flowed and I buzzed it out and it’s working. Maybe that’s how they look. This is a proper raychem solder sleeve from Stein. Is the blue supposed to change color? (The other end had a white stripe which went clear).
 

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Coincidentally, did my first shield termination of the project today.

Grateful if anyone has any feedback. It doesn’t really look like much solder to me, but the solder flowed and I buzzed it out and it’s working. Maybe that’s how they look. This is a proper raychem solder sleeve from Stein. Is the blue supposed to change color? (The other end had a white stripe which went clear).

That looks like it’s done the right thing.
Whether solder sleeves of solder and heat shrink, It helps to fan out the drain and wrap it around the shield.

In case you haven’t seen, the Garmin videos are helpful too.

https://youtu.be/jmVLVhGoGQs

Cheers
 
Interesting video, but I have never soldered directly on to insulated wires, and do not recommend doing so. You may not create a short in the process, but the insulation will be damage such that mechanical movement could bite you down the road.

It is simple to fan out an inch or so of the shield, twist into a wire, then splice another wire to the shield. A touch of solder and heat shrink - done. I tend to use a small piece of shrink over the splice, and then a larger piece of shrink over the spice and cable to add mechanical strength.

I never use solder sleeve.

Carl
 
This does not look right

Your black wire strands appear to be outside the solder band and not wetted by the solder that I can appreciate. I'm not even sure how this is possible since the solder band should be around the entire inside perimeter of the center part of the sleeve. How you got the black wire to end up outside the solder I cannot imagine.
 
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Zoom in. No unwetted wire strands visible in these splices. How they should look, IMO.
 

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I don't really have anything against solder sleeves, but have never seen a need to buy any.

When I need to splice a wire, I use solder and heatshrink.

When I need to terminate the shield braid with a ring lug to attach to a connector shield block, I go old school.

1. First, mark the location where the insulation is to be removed. “Three fingers” is a common length, but some prefer “four fingers” for a little extra length on the wires.

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2. Next, lightly cut the insulation at the mark with a single edge razor blade or other sharp knife. Make sure that the braid wire is not cut in the process. Remove the outer section of insulation either by pulling, or by lightly cutting along the length of the insulation.

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3. Next, bend the wire at the end of the insulation, and using an awl or other pointed, smooth object, carefully separate the braid and extract the wires out the side of the braid. Make sure and don’t nick the insulation on the signal wires.

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4. Finally, add a small piece of heat shrink tubing to stress relieve and tidy up the junction. Crimp on the ring lug which will be screwed onto the connector shield block with a #8-32 screw.

You can go forward or backward with the direction of the shield braid. I like to bend it back before adding the heat shrink since it will be connected to the shield block at the back of the connector.

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Steve
 
Your black wire strands appear to be outside the solder band and not wetted by the solder that I can appreciate. I'm not even sure how this is possible since the solder band should be around the entire inside perimeter of the center part of the sleeve. How you got the black wire to end up outside the solder I cannot imagine.

Thanks Bill - the black wire was under the solder. It melted into the wire - you just can’t see it.

In any case I removed that one and fanned the wire around the shield the next time - a much better result I think.

Thanks for everyone’s advice.
 

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Thanks Bill - the black wire was under the solder. It melted into the wire - you just can’t see it.

In any case I removed that one and fanned the wire around the shield the next time - a much better result I think.

Thanks for everyone’s advice.

Hi Trent, not sure if it's the picture or the sleeves or something else - yours don't look like mine did. I would always see melted solder around the center. Are you sure you are getting it hot enough? Perhaps there is not enough solder?

Perhaps experiment with some scrap and really cook the solder sleeve with a heat gun and see what happens...you should see melted solder - at least I did when I used these.
 
Perhaps there is not enough solder?

Perhaps experiment with some scrap and really cook the solder sleeve with a heat gun and see what happens...you should see melted solder - at least I did when I used these.

When I did it, I first saw the shrink happen, then the glue started to melt and finally the solder melted and flowed into the wire. I then let it go a bit longer and figured it was ok.

This is a 3 core 20 AWG cable and used the middle size (0.22”) sleeve from Stein. Perhaps you were using the larger 0.25 sleeve? I’m guessing this has more solder in it?

I might do a test with the same cable and use a 0.22 sleeve on one end and a 0.25 on the other.
 
When I did it, I first saw the shrink happen, then the glue started to melt and finally the solder melted and flowed into the wire. I then let it go a bit longer and figured it was ok.

All good then, this is the normal sequence. I usually do a pull test to make sure the solder has caught the wires.
The issue with solder sleeve is exactly this, they contain a certain amount of solder, no more. And the reason I usually restrict their use for the type of connection such as yours.
What they’re really great at, is splicing 2 wires of more or less the same section, whilst in dive position (flap handle + left or/and stick grunion wedged between you ribs) working single handed below that nameitwhatyouwant panel… been there, done that ;)
 
I made a test coupon up just now and I used a 0.22” sleeve on one end and a 0.25” sleeve on the other. Wire was a 3 x 20awg with a 20awg tail. The larger one shrank down with no problems and did have a bit more solder. But I think the smaller one also did it’s job. Photos of both completed sleeves below. Zero resistance through the 2 black wires when done.

Here is a video showing the sleeve shrinking - hopefully I’m doing it correctly. You can see the shrink happen, then the glue, then all of a sudden the solder melts and flows into the wires almost instantaneously.

https://youtu.be/pUJtIVwHgTM

Grateful for any advice - such a wide variety of skills to learn in this hobby!
 

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I don't really have anything against solder sleeves, but have never seen a need to buy any.

When I need to splice a wire, I use solder and heatshrink.

When I need to terminate the shield braid with a ring lug to attach to a connector shield block, I go old school.

1. First, mark the location where the insulation is to be removed. “Three fingers” is a common length, but some prefer “four fingers” for a little extra length on the wires.

2. Next, lightly cut the insulation at the mark with a single edge razor blade or other sharp knife. Make sure that the braid wire is not cut in the process. Remove the outer section of insulation either by pulling, or by lightly cutting along the length of the insulation.

3. Next, bend the wire at the end of the insulation, and using an awl or other pointed, smooth object, carefully separate the braid and extract the wires out the side of the braid. Make sure and don’t nick the insulation on the signal wires.

4. Finally, add a small piece of heat shrink tubing to stress relieve and tidy up the junction. Crimp on the ring lug which will be screwed onto the connector shield block with a #8-32 screw.

You can go forward or backward with the direction of the shield braid. I like to bend it back before adding the heat shrink since it will be connected to the shield block at the back of the connector.

Steve
WOW, I remember learning to do that back in 1974 while at Keesler AFB going through the USAF Basic Electronics School. And YES, I am that old and have been doing this for that long. :eek:
 
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I made a test coupon up just now and I used a 0.22” sleeve on one end and a 0.25” sleeve on the other. Wire was a 3 x 20awg with a 20awg tail. The larger one shrank down with no problems and did have a bit more solder. But I think the smaller one also did it’s job. Photos of both completed sleeves below. Zero resistance through the 2 black wires when done.

Here is a video showing the sleeve shrinking - hopefully I’m doing it correctly. You can see the shrink happen, then the glue, then all of a sudden the solder melts and flows into the wires almost instantaneously.

https://youtu.be/pUJtIVwHgTM

Grateful for any advice - such a wide variety of skills to learn in this hobby!

The only comment I would like to make is to cut a long pigtail grounding wire that is soldered to the shield when you assemble the actual loom. This will give you a lot of wiggle room
 
Solder sleeve’s

I worked 26 years on F-16 electrical system, and at no time are you allowed to butt splice with solder sleeves. LM Aero would only allow raychem crimped splice with heat shrink sealing sleeves. They come in Red,Blue and Yellow. Aircraft Spruce Has them, but they are not cheap! I will say this one more time, solder sleeves are for shield wire grounding! Not for butt splicing! This is not MHO but fact.
 
I realize my extensive use of solder sleeves in my current build makes me automatically defensive when that decision is called into question (on the internet, of all places!).

But having said that, I'm going to channel my inner Bob Nuckolls and ask that if anyone has a physical sample of a solder sleeve connection that has failed in service in a properly supported wire bundle after checking out normally in initial service, I would ask that it be sent to me (or better, to Bob) for an autopsy and determination of how this failure occurred.

Until then, I'm of the personal opinion that this cautionary scolding is not based on The Science (TM), since generally not much else is either these days.
 
I realize my extensive use of solder sleeves in my current build makes me automatically defensive when that decision is called into question (on the internet, of all places!).

But having said that, I'm going to channel my inner Bob Nuckolls and ask that if anyone has a physical sample of a solder sleeve connection that has failed in service in a properly supported wire bundle after checking out normally in initial service, I would ask that it be sent to me (or better, to Bob) for an autopsy and determination of how this failure occurred.

Until then, I'm of the personal opinion that this cautionary scolding is not based on The Science (TM), since generally not much else is either these days.

I have repaired multiple CAN bus faults caused by bad solder sleeve splices, basically typical cold solder joint failures.
Sorry but I don’t save them.
 
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I have repaired multiple CAN bus faults caused by bad solder sleeve splices, basically typical cold solder joint failures.
Sorry but I don’t save them.

I don't doubt you, Walt. A cold joint is exactly what I'd be concerned about - either from under-heating or from an installer pulling on the splice to test it mechanically before it was cooled down to "warm to the touch." Solder must be allowed to set without being disturbed or a frosted-looking cold joint is assured and it will give trouble at some point. This is also true for a conventional solder joint made with an iron and then covered with shrink wrap, the old-school way of doing what a solder sleeve does more easily with fewer hands.

If any failed specimens were brought forward for analysis, I would expect them to be uniformly of the cold-joint variety, although a few solder-starved joints from Chinese manufacturing tolerances wouldn't surprise me either. I like the way the solder sleeves allow for visualization of the melting and wet-out inside the sleeve as the solder paste reaches its alloying temperature. Very reassuring to see the solder flash outward along the whole length of the exposed strands and coat them with a shiny (not frosted) silvery flow. I have an attachment for my heat gun that wraps around the sleeve and warms all sides at once; I suspect not everyone is doing it that way and that's an exposure to installation error.
 
Probably well known, but I didn’t see it said here. Make sure you fold the braid back over the jacket if you are terminating the shield with the sleeve at the end of the wire. This is an acceptable method and procedure to prevent future issues with the internal wire. Also, I don’t think the fanning and wrapping the lead to the braid is a method used in mil spec and such, I have no evidence saying it could be an issue but it might create a “non flat” braid which is very important to avoid, as they say YMMV. The solder sleeves are great to use especially now with all the advancement, they have thermochemical rings that turn clear when a degree is reached above the preform solder temperature ensuring proper melting. As stated above my personal preference would be to not use them for butt stuff. Do make sure you use legitimate sleeves, mainly raychem… you get what you pay for, and in this hobby, quality is a must.
 
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I realize my extensive use of solder sleeves in my current build makes me automatically defensive when that decision is called into question (on the internet, of all places!).

But having said that, I'm going to channel my inner Bob Nuckolls and ask that if anyone has a physical sample of a solder sleeve connection that has failed in service in a properly supported wire bundle after checking out normally in initial service, I would ask that it be sent to me (or better, to Bob) for an autopsy and determination of how this failure occurred.

Until then, I'm of the personal opinion that this cautionary scolding is not based on The Science (TM), since generally not much else is either these days.

Bill. Solder splices for all manner of wire splicing is approved by NASA per "NASA WORMANSHIP STANDARDS" Book 4, section 4.07. Solder splice joints as well as legacy solder joints with proper strain relief are taught in the AEA's avionics training courses. Like anything in aircraft construction and maintenance there are many things that cannot be controlled in the field with respect to workmanship, proper tools and techniques. No different than bad riveting, drilling figure 8 holes, poor deburring or improperly torqued hardware. None of those are any good either. I see folks use cigarette lighters for heat shrink tubing and heaven forbid there might be someone out there who has tried the same with solder splices. I maintain that for a properly trained installer with a good quality heat gun solder sleeves are good for more than just shield terminations. Like the video above the heat gun should have a curved shrink nozzle. The splice should constantly be rotated for even heat while shrinking and melting the solder. I will use traditional soldering with shrink tube for most butt spilce joints and usually use solder splices for shield drains. Why use an expensive solder sleeve when traditional methods work well for a few penny's worth of solder and heat shrink? And even in the case of shield drains if I run out of solder splices I will continue the work on shield drains with traditional soldering to the shield with heat shrink cover which takes a little more time. Basically I go old school like Long-Ez Steve. Both methods are taught at the AEA course and are also allowed per referenced NASA WORMANSHIP standards.

Part of the original purpose of the EAB approval standard is the education received in the process and we all start out in life knowing little and learning then getting better over time so there may be instances where a new shop tech or a green kit builder might do something out of ignorance and hopefully outside inspections will catch this stuff. But that can be hard if hidden under heat shrink.
 
I don't doubt you, Walt. A cold joint is exactly what I'd be concerned about - either from under-heating or from an installer pulling on the splice to test it mechanically before it was cooled down to "warm to the touch." Solder must be allowed to set without being disturbed or a frosted-looking cold joint is assured and it will give trouble at some point. This is also true for a conventional solder joint made with an iron and then covered with shrink wrap, the old-school way of doing what a solder sleeve does more easily with fewer hands.

If any failed specimens were brought forward for analysis, I would expect them to be uniformly of the cold-joint variety, although a few solder-starved joints from Chinese manufacturing tolerances wouldn't surprise me either. I like the way the solder sleeves allow for visualization of the melting and wet-out inside the sleeve as the solder paste reaches its alloying temperature. Very reassuring to see the solder flash outward along the whole length of the exposed strands and coat them with a shiny (not frosted) silvery flow. I have an attachment for my heat gun that wraps around the sleeve and warms all sides at once; I suspect not everyone is doing it that way and that's an exposure to installation error.

The failed joints I have seen have been from respected shops which likely have the right equipment and trained personnel. The problem in my opinion is not actually having a good view of the solder joint while looking through the heat shrink. And yes, not moving the assy until cooled presents another challenge (I always hand solder with the wires in a fixed position for this reason).

When I hand solder, I can control the joint by adding solder/rosin until the joint is thoroughly wetted, not something you can do with a sleeve.

There's likely a good reason environmental crimp splices are used in the toughest conditions in aviation when spicing is allowed/required.
 
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I'm going to channel my inner Bob Nuckolls and ask that if anyone has a physical sample of a solder sleeve connection that has failed in service in a properly supported wire bundle after checking out normally in initial service, I would ask that it be sent to me (or better, to Bob) for an autopsy and determination of how this failure occurred.

I have had a short "grow" inside a solder sleeve being used to pick up the shield for a pigtail. I repaired it so there is no sample to show but I will describe what happened.

I originally used the Bob Nuckolls method for attaching a pigtail to a shield wire but when I did my G3X upgrade I decided to get modern and use solder sleeves for this. I ran some tests prior to the actual work and I did notice that it took a long time under the heat gun to get a full solder melt inside the sleeve.

The new harness checked out fine on the bench and worked fine in the airplane for over a year. One day, right after I had done a software update, I started getting a few CAN BUS errors and this quickly progressed to 100% CAN BUS errors. It seemed like it had to be a software issue, but it was not.

What I eventually found (long story omitted) is that a short had developed between the CAN LO signal and the CAN shield ground and that this had occurred inside a solder sleeve. When I dissected the shorted joint I found that the insulation for both CAN signal wires showed signs of heat distress but I could not see any point where the insulation was completely compromised.

This has only happened once and you could argue that it was due to poor technique or workmanship but it did happen to me.
 
When I do a shield drain splice with a solder sleeve I use masking tape as a tool to hold the drain bonding wire against the shielded wire a few inches out from the solder sleeve. I do this to keep the ground wire from moving around or even pulling out during the shrink/solder process. The masking tape holds the ground wire like it's a part of the shielded wire so there is no relative movement. This, after having numerous issues with ground wires moving or even falling out during the process.
 
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Solder sleeve’s

I worked 26 years on F-16 electrical system, and at no time are you allowed to butt splice with solder sleeves. LM Aero would only allow raychem crimped splice with heat shrink sealing sleeves. They come in Red,Blue and Yellow. Aircraft Spruce Has them, but they are not cheap! I will say this one more time, solder sleeves are for shield wire grounding! Not for butt splicing! This is not MHO but fact.
 
I worked 26 years on F-16 electrical system, and at no time are you allowed to butt splice with solder sleeves. LM Aero would only allow raychem crimped splice with heat shrink sealing sleeves. They come in Red,Blue and Yellow. Aircraft Spruce Has them, but they are not cheap! I will say this one more time, solder sleeves are for shield wire grounding! Not for butt splicing! This is not MHO but fact.

You are repeating yourself. See post 35.

Guess I am lucky I dont fly a f16-------I have used many solder splices in my aircraft and have had ZERO problems.
 
I worked 26 years on F-16 electrical system, and at no time are you allowed to butt splice with solder sleeves. LM Aero would only allow raychem crimped splice with heat shrink sealing sleeves. They come in Red,Blue and Yellow. Aircraft Spruce Has them, but they are not cheap! I will say this one more time, solder sleeves are for shield wire grounding! Not for butt splicing! This is not MHO but fact.

NASA uses them as splices. See post # 40.
 
NASA uses them as splices. See post # 40.

Just because NASA has a spec doesn’t actually mean they were approved for repairs on a space vehicle which is what that would imply.
 
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What I eventually found (long story omitted) is that a short had developed between the CAN LO signal and the CAN shield ground and that this had occurred inside a solder sleeve. When I dissected the shorted joint I found that the insulation for both CAN signal wires showed signs of heat distress but I could not see any point where the insulation was completely compromised.

I think this is why they recommend folding the braid back against the insulation now.
http://www.steinair.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/RAYCHEM-SOLDER-SLEEVE-INSTRUCTIONS.pdf
 
For a moment I thought this thread was headed into the weeds of the RoHS-induced, "here, have-a-tin-whisker-driven-failure!" syndrome. (Makes you wonder if anything good for aviation ever came out of efforts to protect us from the horrors of environmental Pb). Turns out it's just from overheating insulation inside a multiconductor shielded cable.. That's a known risk of poor practices.

Probably best to stipulate that mechanical twisting followed by hand-soldering and application of shrink wrap is the preferred technique for butt-splicing when access allows. I was being lazy and saving time, and I hope to get away with it.

OTOH, I have zero worry about hardening the wire strands with solder beyond the strain relief boundary of the heat shrink, and having mechanical wire breakage at the edge of the solder penetration zone - which can happen with over-zealous hand soldering of terminals and splices.
 
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