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Big Kit price Increases Dec 15, 2021

Yesterday, Dec 15, 2021 Van's posted significant price increases on all kits.

https://www.vansaircraft.com/order-a-kit/kit-prices-and-lead-times/

I didn't evaluate all the models, but a quick calculation on the RV-10 and 14 show significant increases vs the previous prices.


Percentage Increase on Dec 15.
RV-10 RV-14 (IO360/390A) RV-14A (IO360/390A)
Empennage/Tail 9% 10% 10%
Wing 10% 10% 10%
Fuselage 11% 11% 10%
Finishing 16% 11% 11%
Standard Kits – Total 12% 10% 12%
QuickBuild Kits – Total 17% 18% 17%
New Totals
QuickBuild Kits – Total $77,125.00 $59,775.00 $60,840.00

Sorry the formatting is bad.

Henry
RV-10

Apologies to Greg and Vans for providing the incorrect numbers above. Those were based on the January 2021 to December 15 2021 price changes. There was an interim price increase in August 2021. An accurate picture of the past years' price increases for the RV-10 only is as follows. I've broken out the two increases separately.
 

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Edit: See Greg Hughes's post with some corrected numbers Here

Better formatting :)
Code:
                        RV-10      RV-14 (IO360/390A)  RV-14A (IO360/390A)
Empennage/Tail          9%         10%                 10%
Wing                    10%        10%                 10%
Fuselage                11%        11%                 10%
Finishing               16%        11%                 11%
Standard Kits – Total   12%        10%                 12%
QuickBuild Kits – Total 17%        18%                 17%
New Totals
QuickBuild Kits – Total $77,125.00 $59,775.00          $60,840.0
 
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Just great. I spent a couple of weeks going over the RV-10 finish kit to delete stuff but did not yet send it in. I would have saved more money just getting the kit as is.

Carl
 
Makes me glad I have everything on order from them except finishing kit. I was expecting something like this.
 
Throwing in the towel. Sorry for the soapbox rant

I think I am done. It pains me to say that.
This is the second increase this year and this one is big. Also the engine price increase, as well as other items combined with absolutely horrid delays and poor communication has all but put this project out of reach for a small player like me. That is tragic. I absolutely love the 10. It would really suit my mission and I am not looking forward to flying my Cherokee forever. Since the time I finally sold the idea to my wife the project has changed dramatically. Experimental is where I want to be for many reasons but this is too much.
It's really too bad that I have closed my side business and converted my shop to build the plane. I have spent thousands on tooling in prep for the build.
I ordered my emp kit in July with a promised 4 month lead on delivery. To date I have heard nothing from Vans. I understand their challenges of supply and labor, but feel they have not done a good job of putting their selves in my shoes by providing people with orders extending well beyond times promised a proper level of communication. While I do not know the details I cannot help but think that they are making a ton of money. The increases seem above the inflation level putting experimental now out of reach for the average aviation enthusiast. This sucks! I guess I will be looking for an upgrade to my Cherokee in certified and pay too much for an old plane instead.
Sincerely, Pi$$ed off
 
Holy smokes. That's a 13% increase in the RV-7 slow build.

What bothers me most is that this was done very quietly and at a time when the customer base frustration is probably highest.
 
Wow,

I understand that costs are going up, but paying more for lower service and increased delivery times, does not bode well. I sure have some decisions to make.
 
Not just Van's- it is everywhere. Vans has indeed done a crummy job with coms, at least in my experience.

The market will naturally find what it will bear then the manufacturers will be sitting on inventory if they are not careful. It's boats, airplanes, electronics, ATV's, etc. The supply chain is broken. The current admin. is clueless.

In many ways it may be a good course correction for us in the long run. We will find ways to be less wasteful and more creative in our hobbies. It is a goal for me to be less dependent on others and things like this reinforce that plan.

Vans is likely trying just like everyone else to protect its business and forecast costs accurately for a long lead time. I have to do the same with my business and have gotten burned because of it. My only option is to raise prices so I can be here next year.

Our economy is way more fragile than many realize. I see this economy in a position that a little bump could send it tumbling, hard.

Sorry to get a bit off topic.
 
Sitting in my armchair recovering from SARS-CoV2, and...

...I want to post a reasoned reply to this thread. I'm not surprised to see it appear today. The new reality is challenging, sad. I wish I could change things for those not yet done a-building. I am in a position of privilege, having completed the final RV build of my lifetime last year and able to enjoy the fruits of the labor any time I walk out the back door...

From my empathetic but exempt vantage point, I pose a question: what could Van's honestly do to reduce the suck? This is not just EAB. This is worldwide. It's not just toys and leisure pursuits; soon enough it will impact "what ye shall eat and what ye shall put on."

It's not just supply chains and shipping containers, nor is it just a virus. It's politics, hegemony and control, exploiting whatever means at hand - and it's uglier, deeper and older than you can probably imagine. I'm not here to stir a pot, breach Doug's house rules or get my butt kicked the rest of the way off the site for having opinions from 35 years in active medical practice. I do know a thing or two that would have been helpful to be allowed to share, but y'all are big boys and girls who can do your own truth-seeking just as I have had to do.

This much I do believe: the frustration you are going feel from the squeeze in manufacturing - at Van's, at Hanes Underpants, Inc. and at Smithfield Meat & Beans - is unavoidable. It can be harnessed for good if it is properly interpreted, blame properly laid, and the resulting anger used to fuel action of significance from each of you (and me) beyond mere keyboard-warrior impotence. The inevitable delays and wildly inflated costs just ahead can pressure you to quit, or give you pause to put your project down and go spend more time with family (you'd rather survive this now ten-year build with an intact marriage than a show plane, believe me and everyone who's pushed the line too close).

In the mean time I would urge restraint when it comes to marching with pitchforks and torches to the mothership castle. I don't know how much money they are making, but that is what they are in the business to do, and by staying in that business, they're assuring their continued existence to support the needs of the fleet. It's not like your RV will never need a replacement prepunched skin or benefit from a critical SB in a few years. Let them make their profits and pay their employees and bless us with the fallouts of capitalism. The alternatives have been tried and failed. Like the checklists we all use, the history of anti-capitalism is written in the blood of others. Maybe just next time don't fall for it when people suggest we tax the rich corporations and then go ballistic when the overhead gets passed along. Stevie Wonder saw that coming. Stevie wonders about some folks' short memories every other November, too.

Good on all my RV/EAB kindred for persevering in the face of adversity. Good on you for understanding the realities of the present age and seeing that the mothership is doing what it must for all our sakes. And maybe just good on you also for waking up at 11:59:59 and taking a good hard look around. Your forefathers did.

If this ends up my last post here, know that I gave it my best shot. Bad analogy. I tried always to offer the best advice in an epoch when blind trust in authority could prove as deadly for you as the Impossible Turn.

Best to you all. Keep watch over one another's Six. Merry Christmas. Some of us will get through this - I'll see you and your beautiful birds on the ramp.

-BB
 
I’m not in the market for more kits, ordered my fuse kit in November.
But it’s a shame they didn’t give us a heads up like the normally do.
I wonder why not?
 
We're not alone

Vans is not the only company with this problem. A friend put a deposit on an Aeropup back in April with a "promised" delivery date in September. Guess what- he hasn't seen one rivet yet, nor any new expected delivery. Hang tight- we're all in for a rough ride...
 
I’m not in the market for more kits, ordered my fuse kit in November.
But it’s a shame they didn’t give us a heads up like the normally do.
I wonder why not?

I’d say if you are intelligent enough to build a plane, then you would have easily seen more price increases coming. I can see from Vans side of things if they give a “heads up” in the current inflationary climate, they just get a massive amount of orders all at once which further complicates their business forecasts.

Additionally this was brought up in a post about a week ago(someone surmising ordering sooner rather than later for the very reasons mentioned in this thread), but the post disappeared almost immediately.
 
Heads up

I'm sure that it there had been a "heads up" about the impending price increase then there would have been a rush of orders before the deadline and that would've made the existing backlog worse!

Where there is a will there is a way... as builders we can choose a simpler, less expensive panel, do our own painting and wiring... oh well!
 
Better formatting :)
Code:
                        RV-10      RV-14 (IO360/390A)  RV-14A (IO360/390A)
Empennage/Tail          9%         10%                 10%
Wing                    10%        10%                 10%
Fuselage                11%        11%                 10%
Finishing               16%        11%                 11%
Standard Kits – Total   12%        10%                 12%
QuickBuild Kits – Total 17%        18%                 17%
New Totals
QuickBuild Kits – Total $77,125.00 $59,775.00          $60,840.0

I'd like to clarify the actual, accurate numbers here. Prices for standard build kits did not increase by 10%. QB prices did increase by a larger margin. Details are below using the RV-10 as an example.

The standard build kit prices increased very by 5% each, across the board. We have struggled this fall to avoid having to do this increase, but our costs continue to climb significantly higher in several areas that we do not control. Please know that we are controlling costs everywhere we are able. I'll be posting a communication about the current situation here soon, as well.

Quickbuild kit prices (referring just to the wings and fuselage QB kits) increased more than standard kit prices. This reflects actual substantial increases in costs associated with QB kits.

For example - these are the actual, accurate "before" and "after" prices for the RV-10. Other kits models fall within the same percentage increase values:

Code:
          Now:     Was:     Inc. %:
Emp        4,860   4,625    5.08
Wing      11,420  10,875    5.01
Fuse      20,450  19,475    5.05
Finish    20,895  19,900    5.00

Total QB  77,125  68,225    13.04

We know communication has been less than is needed, and we will be setting up more regular, proactive, and complete communication to all of our customers. I will be heading that up. We're working through a lot of disruptions and changes, and that's what we will be communicating about as well as what you all can expect. The purpose in communicating will be to let you know the best information we have at the time given the dynamic operating environment - good news, bad news, or otherwise.
 
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What bothers me most is that this was done very quietly and at a time when the customer base frustration is probably highest.

I have no dog in this fight as I completed mine many years ago; with no near term plans to start another. In fact, I'm pretty "pro-van's" on the lead time and communication I think they're doing the best the can. However, to just sneak in a massive price increase, when history would tell your customers to expect otherwise, doesn't feel right.

I always remember Van's being good about posting here a week or two in advance of any price increases to give people time to get their orders in before the increase if they were close to ready. Even earlier this year they did similar with the Lycoming increase; Not sure why they didn't continue that process here. Doesn't seem very savvy from a PR perspective.

anyway, that's my 2c.

ETA: Curiosity got me and here's a thread from the last "bigger than usual" price increase, way back in Aug 2021 (less than 4 months ago). So not only was this price increase unannounced, it's coming 4 months after the last increase. Greg gave a few days heads up on that at least, unlike this one. Thread
 
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Materials

4130 tubing deliveries have slipped to 2025 for some sizes. It will get worse before it gets better.
 
Seems reasonable to me...

I think these increases are really reasonable. Being in manufacturing myself, our cost of aluminum has gone up 12% this year. Other vendors have sent us notices of price increases 3 times - 2 increases during 2021 and another one come January 2022. Our shipping costs have also risen double digits.

Manufacturers can't keep absorbing all these price increases - otherwise they need to start cutting costs in other areas. I just sent a notice out to our customers announcing an overall increase of 8%.

Seems to me that Van's did a better job than I did controlling costs :D
 
I think these increases are really reasonable. Being in manufacturing myself, our cost of aluminum has gone up 12% this year. Other vendors have sent us notices of price increases 3 times - 2 increases during 2021 and another one come January 2022. Our shipping costs have also risen double digits.

Manufacturers can't keep absorbing all these price increases - otherwise they need to start cutting costs in other areas. I just sent a notice out to our customers announcing an overall increase of 8%.

Seems to me that Van's did a better job than I did controlling costs :D

Thanks for keeping us ground with reality. I find a bunch of shortages from Aircraft Spruce for things that are used to be on stock.
 
Don't quit

Throwing in the towel. Sorry for the soapbox rant
I can very well understand all your reasons for wanting to "throw in the towel" and blaming Vans is not going to make the situation any better.
As a business operator, I can assure you that in today's environment, none of the the normal operating procedures apply any longer when it comes to price increases. Suppliers increase prices without notice, in some cases as much as 100% or more and employees need to be retained by offering generous incentives. Making a profit is not greed but an essential component to staying in business, especially at a time when record numbers of entrepreneurs fail and loose everything.
ALL of these costs get past on to customers, if we don't we'll go under.

On the other side of the counter are demanding and in many cases arrogant customers who are simply oblivious to the current situation. Many feel they have the right to abuse customer service help and unload their frustrations on them.

Don't give up on your RV-10, it is an exceptional airplane. Get started, your kit will arrive sooner or later and btw, none of us built these things in weeks. It took me 7 years from empenage to first flight. I had to wait for many reasons and some of them were truly reasons to throw in the towel, much much worse than a price increase.
Unfortunately, we all get what some of us deserve.
 
This week, I asked a Dynon rep if they were planning a price increase. Their screens are currently delayed but there is some stock out with their vendors. He said that while they don't have any planned, they don't increase on a schedule, but only as needed. He also said that he didn't know if the screens would come in at the same price they were currently paying.

For vendors, he said try Aircraft Spruce, Gulf Coast Avionics, Pacific Coast Avionics and Sarasota. I was able to obtain what I wanted from one of those.

Dave
 
Increase

10 months ago I paid $190 a sheet for 16 gauge SS #4 finish . Bought 50 sheets at a time . Today …..$450 a sheet and lucky to get 15 sheets. I have no idea how Vans held off this long for a price increase.
Does Vans use sheets or Coiled Rolls ?
 
Vans probably has a long term contract on the alum sheets given the amount of airplane kits it produces each year. There are other smaller parts that are from smaller suppliers, such as welded steel brackets. The small suppliers probably can't handle the price hike as well as Vans. Plus the labor shortage is hurting all the businesses I deal with.
 
I think I am done. It pains me to say that.
This is the second increase this year and this one is big. Also the engine price increase, as well as other items combined with absolutely horrid delays and poor communication has all but put this project out of reach for a small player like me. That is tragic. I absolutely love the 10. It would really suit my mission and I am not looking forward to flying my Cherokee forever. Since the time I finally sold the idea to my wife the project has changed dramatically. Experimental is where I want to be for many reasons but this is too much.
It's really too bad that I have closed my side business and converted my shop to build the plane. I have spent thousands on tooling in prep for the build.
I ordered my emp kit in July with a promised 4 month lead on delivery. To date I have heard nothing from Vans. I understand their challenges of supply and labor, but feel they have not done a good job of putting their selves in my shoes by providing people with orders extending well beyond times promised a proper level of communication. While I do not know the details I cannot help but think that they are making a ton of money. The increases seem above the inflation level putting experimental now out of reach for the average aviation enthusiast. This sucks! I guess I will be looking for an upgrade to my Cherokee in certified and pay too much for an old plane instead.
Sincerely, Pi$$ed off

I totally understand your frustrations. I also ordered my tail kit in July, followed shortly thereafter I ordered the wing kit. I setup shop, ordered tools, took two builders courses and have spent countless hours doing research. I haven't seen anything yet...nothing. I would have ordered my fuse kit if I had known that the price was going up 10%. With that being said, it's hard to keep pumping money into this project when I haven't seen or heard anything from vans yet. I understand that they are swamped and dealing with all the current event issues. But when you say 3-4 months on an emp kit and it's been more than 5 without any communication, its disheartening. End of rant :)
 
In the wood products industry we've seen a very similar thing. Supplier B goes to buy from Supplier A, but Supplier A has supply/demand problems and raised prices 10%. Supplier B resells product at only 5% increase to eat some of the cost in order to maintain customer loyalty. Supplier B goes back to Supplier A to make next order, price is up another 10%. Supplier B is already eating some cost, they have no choice but to make an immediate 10% increase to help offset while still taking some loss.

I understand the frustration, but as people have pointed out this increase will eventually be across the board, and it's very likely going to get worse. Make lemonaid, buy now before it increases again.

Want to help? Go work at Vans for half of what they pay their other employees. That will help keep their expenses down.
 
Lack of heads up seems pretty ridiculous lately. Used to they would do a price increase once a year and give everyone a heads up so the guy a couple of days out didn’t get the shaft. Vans has quietly stopped doing that with new management- no explanation. Meanwhile they asked for final payment for kits going to crating knowing full well they won’t ship for 2-3 months!

What bothers me the most is what my plumber just pointed out….costs are increasing in materials and corporate bs is raising prices everywhere but labor seems stuck except entry level wages maybe. Someone is making out like a bandit.

Seems like Vans is becoming like every other corporation. Next they will do a SPAC led by some hedge fund Wall Street OPM “expert”.
 
I think these increases are really reasonable. Being in manufacturing myself, our cost of aluminum has gone up 12% this year. Other vendors have sent us notices of price increases 3 times - 2 increases during 2021 and another one come January 2022. Our shipping costs have also risen double digits.

Manufacturers can't keep absorbing all these price increases - otherwise they need to start cutting costs in other areas. I just sent a notice out to our customers announcing an overall increase of 8%.

Seems to me that Van's did a better job than I did controlling costs :D

We did some hard negotiating on our bulk aluminum this year (and we purchase sheets on a multi-year contract, to answer another person's question). Because Boeing was not manufacturing at their forecasted levels, we were able take some of that extra supply and keep our aluminum costs lower. That's a good thing, though - because so many other costs have skyrocketed.

Our costs are still rising in terms of labor, materials, and services. I know people wish we could tell them ahead of time whenever a price increase is coming, but truly and honestly I can tell you that the only thing this increase does is stem the losses that've already been occurring due to the realities of today. While I can't see far enough into the future to tell you whether we'll need to raise prices again at some point in the next handful of months, what I can tell you is that it's certainly possible given the direction of the current economic business environment. We'll make those decisions as the situation evolves and we likely won't be able to pre-announce in this situation.

We must remain profitable so we can be here to supply and support our customers, and we're striving to make that work in as efficient and cost-effective a manner as we are able. Our margins are not huge at Van's and the increases we had to put in place this week don't even bring us back to where our margins typically sit. We're doing the best we can to keep prices as low as the economics allow because that's where we came from, too: building cool airplanes on a budget.
 
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Fingers crossedddddd

Well don't back into your garage door like my son and daughter have done to a couple of mine. Cause you might wait a few months to get a new one.
I'm building my last house ( retiring). I ordered cabinets before I poured the foundation. And then 3 months later they email and say they are going to be another month later.
We ordered the garage door 2 months before we were ready and then it was two weeks later than that.
Oh there are more, But no need to bore you to death.
It's life and I'm glad I'm done building houses.
Enjoy the ride if you can Art
I have one and half planes. Better get to finishing the half one soon.
 
We did some hard negotiating on our bulk aluminum this year (and we purchase sheets on a multi-year contract, to answer another person's question). Because Boeing was not manufacturing at their forecasted levels, we were able take some of that extra supply and keep our aluminum costs lower. That's a good thing, though - because so many other costs have skyrocketed.

Our costs are still rising in terms of labor, materials, and services. I know people wish we could tell them ahead of time whenever a price increase is coming, but truly and honestly I can tell you that the only thing this increase does is stem the losses that've already been occurring due to the realities of today. While I can't see far enough into the future to tell you whether we'll need to raise prices again at some point in the next handful of months, what I can tell you is that it's certainly given the direction of the current economic business environment. We'll make those decisions as the situation evolves and we likely won't be able to pre-announce in this situation.

We must remain profitable so we can be here to supply and support our customers, and we're striving to make that work in as efficient and cost-effective a manner as we are able. Our margins are not huge at Van's and the increases we had to put in place this week don't even bring us back to where our margins typically sit. We're doing the best we can to keep prices as low as the economics allow because that's where we came from, too: building cool airplanes on a budget.

Vans managed to give heads up for price increases for years, yeah I can make excuses too but all I see is new mgmt making bad decisions in the face of adversity.
 
In the wood products industry we've seen a very similar thing. Supplier B goes to buy from Supplier A, but Supplier A has supply/demand problems and raised prices 10%. Supplier B resells product at only 5% increase to eat some of the cost in order to maintain customer loyalty. Supplier B goes back to Supplier A to make next order, price is up another 10%. Supplier B is already eating some cost, they have no choice but to make an immediate 10% increase to help offset while still taking some loss.

I understand the frustration, but as people have pointed out this increase will eventually be across the board, and it's very likely going to get worse. Make lemonaid, buy now before it increases again.

Want to help? Go work at Vans for half of what they pay their other employees. That will help keep their expenses down.

Or just come work at full wage. We've been increasing pay for our employees as we go, and all of our employees are fractional owners of the company and share in the success of Van's through our employee stock ownership plan. And if anyone is looking for work in the Portland area, I have several production and warehouse positions to fill. And we'll pay you a competitive wage. Email me. Seriously.
 
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Or just come work at full wage. We've been increasing pay for our employees as we go, and all of our employees are fractional owners of the company and share in the success of Van's through our employee stock ownership plan. And if anyone is looking for work in the Portland area, I have several production and warehouse positions to fill. And we'll pay you a competitive wage. Email me. Seriously.

Open a facility in Michigan I'll be first in line 😁
 
It's Everywhere

As a farmer currently building a house and waiting on a tail kit I'm seeing it everywhere. No use getting upset, it's not getting better anytime soon. We had a good corn crop this year and a good market so we made a little money, but my inputs are getting ready to skyrocket and you will all see continued increases in the grocery store because of it. Next year is not looking so good in the AG industry even with a pretty strong commodity market. My chemical cost are over tripling if I can get what I have ordered, fertilizer over doubled still unsure about supply. Just bought 2 used tractors, highest prices I've ever paid, although got more than I should have for the 2 I'm trading in. Talking with my salesman they are putting in orders for new tractors over a year and a half out without knowing the price. For the house we are building, yikes, shoulda started that 2 years ago. Lumber yards won't even quote some materials until they ship. Delays have been pretty standard, often having to substitute because the desired product isn't available with no projected in stock date. The world economy has been running incredibly lean for a long time. Think about all the just in time inventory management. Honestly, I'm amazed things are still moving as well as they are. I think massive inflation is the only fix to our supply demand imbalance. My biggest request is that Van's doesn't get themselves in long term trouble due to these temporary problems. Plenty of businesses in the past have ramped up production with long term commitments for short term demand only to have demand pull back.
 
Vans certainly deserves to earn a profit. No one is disputing that. The employees at Vans deserve wages that keep pace with inflation. The quality of their work is reflected in the wages they are paid.

Have you seen the prices of finished RV’s for sale? In my observations the market price for a flying RV-X or RV-XX has gone up substantially. Arguably more than 10%. The extra amount paid now should be recovered later should you decide to sell. If you keep it, the value of your asset should only increase.
 
Lemonade!

I have an idea for the prospective Vans builder with deep pocket.

Place order for 5 or 10 or 20 RV10 and pay for them now in cash. Vans will probably let you jump ahead of the line with this kind of bulk order. Forget about building, make money instead.

After you receive the kits, sell them with a mark up because by then, Van's list prices will be higher and wait time will be even longer. Other kit builder will buy from you instead of going through Vans.

I am still working full time and saving for my retirement so sorry, can't roll this dice.
 
From Dynon today

"However, there are components critical to experimental SkyView displays that are not available at all right now, at any cost."
 
Inflation

The annual inflation rate in the US accelerated to 6.8% in November. That's the highest inflation rate in 40 years. In that economic environment significant kit prices are to be expected.
 
used RV’s are expensive these days
I think used RVs were vastly, the more so in the US, underrated. Right today used RV prices are where they ought to be.

We’ve had many threads here on VAF treating the costs to build one of those wonderful flying machines, and they all lead to the same: most RVs traded at barely, or even below, the value of components alone.
A good, clean, well-built, well maintained RV has to change hands for a fair price.
 
I am shocked at some of the uninformed posts on this subject. I am usually awed at the intelligence level of the typical RV builder.

In my industry, we have had three price increases this year and have been told we have another 12% coming Jan. 1st. Unlike Van's our supplier increases the price on unshipped equipment.
I have some equipment sold and ordered in June that I have not yet received and these orders will see two price increases before I receive them. My sold price has not changes to keep up.

Communicating with the customer is hard to do as staffing is a real problem right now.
 
Didn't Jerome Powell say this inflationary period was transitory and would subside? Oops, that was a couple of months ago and since then has changed his tune in face of reality.

I'm glad I finished my project several decades ago but empathize with those that are in the middle of theirs.
 
Thought i was dumb

I thought I was stupid for buying my kits earlier than needed. It was hard to find the cash, but I always thought the build would go quicker than it did. I wasn’t smart, just being a kid-in-a-candy store.
I feel bad for those waiting on stuff. I wish I could help those folks. Sending luck to all you waiting.
 
One Man's Opinion

And it's worth what you expect.

Looking out the window of my office I see cars lined up for a church run food bank. I am grateful I am not in it.

Several years ago a bank loaned me more money than I should have borrowed to make payroll. I am grateful I was able to pay it off (after several years).

I've paid in full for a wing kit which has not been produced yet. When I learn more about the fuse kit and what I should, or should not change in it, I'll place that order, too.

I'll be happy when the wing kit arrives. Until then, I'll be grateful for the blessings that have been lavished upon us.

I wish each of you a Merry Christmas and prosperous New Year!
Mike
 
ICommunicating with the customer is hard to do as staffing is a real problem right now.

Greg managed to make several posts on here yesterday in defense of their new policy of midnight surprise price increases. Some comm seems to make it through without difficulty.

Annualized, Van's prices have increased well over 20% in some cases. We haven't even made it to the usual announced January price increase. Can't wait for that one.

I guess I'm one of the dumb RV builders. But then again I already knew that.
 
I think the most important thing for all of us, whether we have built, are building or are waiting for kits, is that Vans stays a healthy, profitable company. From what I see, Vans has a great reputation for service throughout the life of their products. We want that to continue.

As many have lamented, communication could be better and more straightforward. When I ordered my empennage in June, the lead time was 4 months to shipping. That has dragged out to some unknown, possibly 8 months to crating plus another month before shipping. All that without a call or email from Vans. I have called twice to follow-up, the first time was told crating in first week of December, the second time was told maybe end of January, beginning of February. Further, Vans' explanations are not entirely realistic. New orders should not significantly delay the shipping times of older orders, because the projected lead times for newer orders should reflect the current shop and material capacity. However, material sourcing should add significant delays. Labor shortages should as well. Ordering parts from overseas would obviously cause delays. Imagine ordering parts from a small one or two man shop. They are not likely to be able to ramp up production. Then don't forget the QB corrosion debacle. I do not know the extent of the problem, but Vans has to make good on all those kits that were already paid for, before, or at least concurrently with, our new orders. Finally, Vans fell behind during the pandemic, and the fires. Now I understand that Vans is planning to add another shift. Good for us.

Inflation is out of control. The current report pace of 6% is completely understated because it does not take into consideration a huge percentage of what we buy. Producer price index is up 9.6% in November. It is realistic that Vans is experiencing those numbers, or worse. A 5% price increase (following August price increase) is not unreasonable. I expect we are going to see more and bigger increases in 2022, not just from Vans (which represents 25-30% of the cost of my project) but from all the other vendors as well.

Remember, Vans is in business to make money. It seems obvious to me that they are not getting rich being in business right now. Nothing should be more important to us than the survival and long term health of Vans.
 
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Greg managed to make several posts on here yesterday in defense of their new policy of midnight surprise price increases. Some comm seems to make it through without difficulty.

Annualized, Van's prices have increased well over 20% in some cases. We haven't even made it to the usual announced January price increase. Can't wait for that one.

I guess I'm one of the dumb RV builders. But then again I already knew that.

Have you looked at your grocery bills recently? Gas price? Lumber? Cars (new and used)?

Seems they have increased a lot more than 20% over the last year.

Of course very few are happy about it. Especially if you have worked and saved for retirement all your life. Realize that our system punishes savers and rewards those living and buying on credit.

Finn
 
Are RVs on the market really more expensive? Well, a little. The price has risen but the value hasn't since inflation has been eating away at value. Every dollar printed at the presses reduces the power of your wallet. You are basically being taxed by the fresh dollars off the printing press without having to do a tax return or open you wallet. It happens virtually.
 
Prices and delays

Thankfully I am on the tail end working the cowl and instrument panel. I feel for budding builders. Delays and price increases are not good news. I do feel Vans could do better with communication. They have everyone's e-mail and regularly post to Vans Air Force. If there is any possibility of a customer effecting change, they should gjve a heads up something may be coming.
We couldn't go bathroom without notification of the Beta test followed by an eval period then Test, more time, and finally Production notifications every week or so before going live. Maybe things will improve.

Advanced Flight Systems sent out a notification so I placed my order yesterday. 6 months. Oh Bother.
 
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