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GTX 23ES & GDL 52R vs. GTX 45R

Dad's RV-10

Well Known Member
I have a GTX 23ES I acquired as part of a used avionics package. I still need an ADS-In source and would likely choose the GDL 52R.

Displays will be dual GDU 460's and GPS source will be a GTN 650 that I already have, though I might upgrade to a GTN 650xi.

Would choosing to install a GTX 45R offer any operational advantages/disadvantages vs. the GTX 23ES + GDL 52R? Would the GTX 45R require the GDL 51R to have the same total functionality as the GTX 23ES + GDL 52R?

Lastly, what about physical space requirements for mounting the various options? Is the GTX 45R considerably smaller than the GTX 23ES?

Any other considerations in choosing?

Thanks.
 
I have a GTX 23ES I acquired as part of a used avionics package. I still need an ADS-In source and would likely choose the GDL 52R.

Displays will be dual GDU 460's and GPS source will be a GTN 650 that I already have, though I might upgrade to a GTN 650xi.

Would choosing to install a GTX 45R offer any operational advantages/disadvantages vs. the GTX 23ES + GDL 52R? Would the GTX 45R require the GDL 51R to have the same total functionality as the GTX 23ES + GDL 52R?

Lastly, what about physical space requirements for mounting the various options? Is the GTX 45R considerably smaller than the GTX 23ES?

Any other considerations in choosing?

Thanks.

GDU 460's don't have built-in SXM which I think is not a bad thing. I think an external SXM receiver is better and more flexible than an integrated solution like the GDU 465, which has the built-in SXM receiver. I prefer the GDL 52(R) for SXM and ADS-B "In" via a direct-wire kit (RS232). I also like the idea of removing the portable GDL 52 (non-R model) and using it in other airplanes to maximize the value of a SXM subscription.

So having the GTX 23ES + GDL 52(R) does have the advantage over the GTX 45R of providing for SXM "in" in addition to the ADS-B in provided by the 45R. So yes, you would have to add a GDL 51 to gain access to SXM to the 45R. My G3X Touch has a GTX 23ES with a GDL 52. My flying buddy has the exact same panel as mine but with the 45R instead of the GTX 23ES + GDL 52(R) and it works fine too. The main differences between the choice is that the 45R is more expensive, especially if you already have the 23ES (and GTN 650). Keep in mind the 45R can provide ADS-B "in" information on the GTN, which the GDL 52(R) cannot. After flying both aircraft it is readily apparent that the GDU is the preferred place for this information by default and the GTN 650 screen is small enough that it's better to declutter the screen by removing that same TIS and FIS info. For fairness sometimes the traffic screen can be brought up on the GTN as a convenience at the expense of forgoing the unit's navigation displays. My wing man does that quit a bit. I don't see a real use for it and like a GTN clean and dedicated to navigation.

The GTX 45R and GTX 23ES look about the same size using their remote-mount trays. If you went with the GTX 23ES with the GDL 52 you will have to find additional room for the GDL 52. Then again same goes for the 45R with a GDL 51.

Since you already have a GTX 23ES why spend the money on a 45R and then have to try to sell the 23ES when they both are just as robust and reliable on the ADS-B "out" front? So zero difference with respect to "out". I feel like as time goes on there will be more devices and options with respect to ADS-B "in" upgrades and having the ADS-B receiver separate makes upgrading the "in" less costly and easier than having all the eggs integrated into one basket. If you had a GDU 465 rather than a GDU 460 the GDL 51 would not be required for SXM but that is not your situation. I see no advantage in upgrading your GDU 460 to a 465, upgrading your GTN 650 to a 650xi, or upgrading your GTX 23ES to a 45R. The performance will be equivalent.
 
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If I've fully understood all that you wrote, it sounds like the only functional difference would be the inability of the GTX 23ES/GDL 52R combo to display traffic information on the GTN650? I guess that's not much of a detriment, given the relative small size of the GTN 650's display.

Thank you for the comprehensive explanation.
 
I originally went with a GDU 460 (PFD) and GDU 465 (MFD), GTX 345 and GTN 650(XI). The GTX 345 provides all the ADSB-In&Out, FIS & TIS goodness in one unit. I am very happy with this configuration with the exception of the SiriusXM.

1. The SXM receiver control strobe/interface is isolated to the GDU 465 as is the received WX Data.
2. Tuning the SXM channel involves reaching across the cockpit to the MFD, fiddling with knobs, etc.

In hindsight, I should have gone with dual GDU 460s and a GDL 51R, with its serial ports connected to the PFD *and* MFD -- this would have enabled control from both screens as well as WX data being displayed on both GDUs.
The integration and data sharing across

Live & Learn...
 
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Wouldn't the GTX 23ES + GDL 52R or GTX 45R + GDL 51R each require two antennas?

I might be mistaken for this configuration:

GTX 23ES + GDL 52R:
Antennas
1. Transponder
2. ADSB
3. XM

I have this, so I’m “sure”:

GTX 45R + GDL 51R
Antennas
1. Transponder/ADSB
3. XM
 
Since my first post I've learned a little more. Maybe this info will help others. My original post was in regard to my RV-10, which is still a pile of parts. That pile of parts includes a GTX-23ES.

I recently bought a flying RV-7 that also has a GTX-23ES and a GDL-39R. Before ever flying the plane, I replaced the GNS-430W with a GTN-650Xi. The EFIS is non-Touch G3X (GDU-370's).

I am in a huge learning mode, having little GA experience in the past 25 years and nearly no experience with GA EFIS systems. On my first flight, I noticed the G3X would provide FIS-B weather information via the GDL-39R but the weather option on the GTN-650Xi's menu is not selectable (grayed out).

Jilitd posted above, "Keep in mind the 45R can provide ADS-B "in" information on the GTN, which the GDL XX(R) cannot."

When reading Jilitd's comment about the GDL units not being capable of providing "ADS-B In information", I assumed this meant traffic information. And as stated above, with the GTN-650 series smaller display, the lack of displayed traffic is no big deal. You'd likely rather have this displayed on your MFD. But apparently the lack of "ADS-B In information" also means there is no weather information available in the GTN.

After some research, I found this comment from G3Xpert, "The TSO on a GTN 650 Xi covers a limited number of weather inputs to the unit. In addition to the GDL 88, the GTX 345(R) transponder and GNX 375 are able to provide ADS-B Information to the GTN series navigators. GDL 5X and 39 series ADS-B receivers and other similar devices are not able to be used for these purposes."

I have way too little experience behind this system to know if the lack of weather information on the GTN is a big deal. After all, it is available on the GDU-370. But in my limited experience thus far, it seems that a few quick touches of the GTN's screen to retrieve weather info would be a bit easier and quicker than trying to pull it up on the non-Touch G3X. The RV-10 will have G3X Touch, so maybe less of a big deal?

In my first post I asked "Would choosing to install a GTX 45R offer any operational advantages/disadvantages vs. the GTX 23ES + GDL 52R? Would the GTX 45R require the GDL 51R to have the same total functionality as the GTX 23ES + GDL 52R?" So it looks like the GTX-45R would provide FIS-B weather information to the GTN, which the GTX-23ES and any GDL combination can not.
 
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I originally went with a GDU 460 (PFD) and GDU 465 (MFD), GTX 345 and GTN 650(XI). The GTX 345 provides all the ADSB-In&Out, FIS & TIS goodness in one unit. I am very happy with this configuration with the exception of the SiriusXM.

1. The SXM receiver control strobe/interface is isolated to the GDU 465 as is the received WX Data.

2. Tuning the SXM channel involves reaching across the cockpit to the MFD, fiddling with knobs, etc.

In hindsight, I should have gone with dual GDU 460s and a GDL 51R, with its serial ports connected to the PFD *and* MFD -- this would have enabled control from both screens as well as WX data being displayed on both GDUs.

The integration and data sharing across

Live & Learn...

One of my GDU's is in fact a 465. I was told they were both 460's when I bought them used.

I've decided to upgrade the transponder from the GTX-23ES to the GTX-45R.

Despite the GDU-465 having internal XM capability, can the GDL-51R be used as an XM receiver to enable control from both screens as well as WX data being displayed on both GDUs?
 
Yes. The GDL 5x(R) devices can be controlled by both GDU screens (whether 460 or 465). As mentioned in a previous post here the GDL 5x(R) has two serial ports and so each will be wired one or the other GDUs for control and traffic and weather input depending on model of GDL 5x(R). You can transfer your SXM subscription from the GDU 465 to the GDL 51R (or 52R) so you don't incur another subscription fee. With the advent of the GDL 5x(R) I see no reason to ever install a GDU 465. Go 460.

As an aside if you go for the non-R model of the GDL 51 or 52 you can swap it from airplane to airplane with only one SXM subscription.
 
...I see no reason to ever install a GDU 465. Go 460.

As an aside if you go for the non-R model of the GDL 51 or 52 you can swap it from airplane to airplane with only one SXM subscription.
Thanks. I already have the GDU-465 and a GDL-51R. Just wanted to make sure I could bypass the XM receiver in the GDU-465 and use the GDL-51R to eliminate the issues noted in post
#4.

Sounds like this will work.
 
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