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What is required in a build log for FAA?

RV-Ogler

Active Member
My build log is very minimalistic. I have a note book where I write the date, time started and the pages and steps I completed, then the stop time. I wonder if I need to be more detailed.
 
Log

Your method is probably fine with some photos.
Personal preference. Consider the added value with a more detail. Probably doesn't matter for the standard stuff but any deviation from plan would be nice to have more detail.
 
Take photos along the way to document the build.
Pics with you doing the work also helpful.
 
Build log requirements are minimal. Primarily you are simply trying to convince the inspector that you built the aircraft. And I promise, an experienced inspector will know if you did the build just by talking with you for 10 minutes.

Basically you need a log showing a chronological order with pictures of the build.
 
One simple approach is to log the date and time completed next to each step in the Vans builder instructions.

And you know where you are, and don't skip steps.
 
Builder log

My build log is very minimalistic. I have a note book where I write the date, time started and the pages and steps I completed, then the stop time. I wonder if I need to be more detailed.
Based on my recent experience you will be fine. My log was even more basic than yours, notebook paper with a single line entry for each day I worked on it, a short description, “worked on wings” and the hours worked. When it came time to submit to the FAA, I scanned it and added 4-5 pages of pictures showing me and my wife working on various parts. They accepted it with no questions.
My conclusion is that a robust builder log is great if you want to do it, and to those who do it online, many thanks because I found them very helpful, but just to meet the FAA requirement, all you need is the bare minimum.
 
One simple approach is to log the date and time completed next to each step in the Vans builder instructions.

And you know where you are, and don't skip steps.

This is the method I used and was more than adequate for the inspector. In fact I'm not sure he did more than glance at it. I had some pics as well and those were equally uninteresting... YMMV. As noted, the benefit was primarily to me -easy to know what steps had been completed and which hadn't. This was the true value.

I've seen a few highly detailed logs and applaud those who develop and maintain them. But I put enough energy into the actual build and didn't see the point.
 
+1 on a simple approach of using a date stamp next to each line completed in the plans and some photos (mostly for future use when your memory fades) ...

My DAR looked at my docs for about 15 seconds and made his judgement based on conversation. Easy as that. If you built it, it's pretty obvious.

Save the pain, make a record for YOUR use later on. You'll be happy you did.

Cheers!
 
One thing to remember is that there are two potential “official” uses for the builder log - one is for the DAR granting the airworthiness certificate for the airplane. The other is for the FSDO to issue a repairman’s certificate for the builder. For the second use, it is really useful to have a wad of pictures showing the applicant actually working on the airplane in question!

It’s not all that hard to pencil-whip notes into a manual regarding dates that work was completed. It’s a lot harder to fake pictures of people and specific airplane parts. In the age of phone cameras, its cheap insurance to grab shots along the way.

Just makes sure the dates on the pictures match the dates in your log….. ;)

Paul
 
To make the book useful to yourself, record serial numbers and model number of every thing that has those numbers. It will be useful in the future.
Take pictures of the holes you drill to attach the rear spar to the fuselage. A buyer will want to see those. And document any modifications.
I’ve built two planes and the inspectors never looked at the book. Neither did the FSDO when issuing the Repairman’s Cert.
 
One simple approach is to log the date and time completed next to each step in the Vans builder instructions.

And you know where you are, and don't skip steps.

One additional thing to consider. With the current system you have to upload a pdf copy of your builder’s log when applying for your airworthiness certificate. It would take a long time at my printer/scanner to scan the instruction binder.
 
Repairmans Certificate

In 2016 my FSDO required a face to face meeting for Repairman's Certificate.
They did not ask for nor did I bring builder records.
I don't know if covid is still restricting FSDO visits.
 
One thing to remember is that there are two potential “official” uses for the builder log - one is for the DAR granting the airworthiness certificate for the airplane. The other is for the FSDO to issue a repairman’s certificate for the builder. For the second use, it is really useful to have a wad of pictures showing the applicant actually working on the airplane in question!

It’s not all that hard to pencil-whip notes into a manual regarding dates that work was completed. It’s a lot harder to fake pictures of people and specific airplane parts. In the age of phone cameras, its cheap insurance to grab shots along the way.

Just makes sure the dates on the pictures match the dates in your log….. ;)

Paul

So true, Paul! I just applied for my repairman's certificate, and the local FSDO inspector first briefly perused my online log (with 2000+ pics) and said I wasn't in any of them. I then went though and pulled 50+ pics with me in the shot, at all stages of the build ... and then he was satisfied. Were I to build again, I'll take 10x the number with my mug in it!

_Alex
 
Build Log

I just did this with a DAR a few weeks ago. N701MN. Large binder with pictures and few notes. Did not upload our build log as someone said is required. The DAR quided the online application process.
 
Sounds like each DAR and FSDO office is a little different. During my application for the inspection certificate the office was in lockdown and we did it all online and over the phone. By the time we had the online application process working the FSDO and I were good friends! He didn't require an uploaded log since he was happy that the DAR (who previously worked in his office) was able to vouch for his impression that I built and was able to do the work on my plane...

So lesson learned: each FSDO will be different, contact them early (like day one) and ask about what they will want to see. Make contact with your DAR as well, they can be a wealth of information during the process (my DAR was a life long Boeing inspector and an easy going guy, enjoyable experience all around).

The FAA is your friend (well, when they're not after your ticket!) and most are flyers just like you and me. The process really isn't that difficult.

Cheers
 
One additional thing to consider. With the current system you have to upload a pdf copy of your builder’s log when applying for your airworthiness certificate. It would take a long time at my printer/scanner to scan the instruction binder.

News to me. Perhaps you mean your DAR requested it? I'm not aware of any such requirement.
 
Uploads

With the new AWC system the builder log ( a sample my FSDO boss says)

Also an upload of the 51 percent checklist if required
 
Thanks Vern.

Anyone have background? Various sources describe a build log upload differently, some as a requirement and others as optional. Is this another "depends on the prevalent opinion at the local FAA office" thing, or is there a clear reference? Chapter 15 of 8130.2J doesn't seem to address an upload requirement, only the long-standing "Review the builder's documentation to verify it shows:", previously a responsibility left to the DAR.
 
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Anyone have background? Various sources describe a build log upload differently, some as a requirement and others as optional. Is this another "depends on the prevalent opinion at the local FAA office" thing, or is there a clear reference? Chapter 15 of 8130.2J doesn't seem to address an upload requirement, only the long-standing "Review the builder's documentation to verify it shows:", previously a responsibility left to the DAR.

There is no FAA guidance that requires uploading the build records. The build records are not required to be in the aircraft's permanent record at the FAA registration office in OKC. If you are being required to upload the document, this requirement is coming from the local FAA office. My guess is, so that the inspector or DAR can review it in advance.

Anything you upload into the AWC system WILL become part of the aircraft's permanent record in OKC. It's all automatic. I would suggest you ask the inspector to point out in the official guidance where it asks that the build records be uploaded. I don't see where either the FAA or you would want the build records to be a part of the permanent record. Your mileage may vary, but this is something I would definitely query the inspector about.
 
There is no FAA guidance that requires uploading the build records. The build records are not required to be in the aircraft's permanent record at the FAA registration office in OKC. If you are being required to upload the document, this requirement is coming from the local FAA office. My guess is, so that the inspector or DAR can review it in advance.

Anything you upload into the AWC system WILL become part of the aircraft's permanent record in OKC. It's all automatic. I would suggest you ask the inspector to point out in the official guidance where it asks that the build records be uploaded. I don't see where either the FAA or you would want the build records to be a part of the permanent record. Your mileage may vary, but this is something I would definitely query the inspector about.

Thanks Joe - this makes me feel better, as my “build log” with the Sonex machines has been nothing more than dating and highlighting steps on the drawings (for RV builders, there is no step-by step building manual for a Sonex kit) themselves, and I have no idea how I’d upload those! We licensed the little jet just before the new system came into being, but we’ve got the eXenos coming along soon…..

We now return you to RV programming!

Paul
 
Thanks Joe - this makes me feel better, as my “build log” with the Sonex machines has been nothing more than dating and highlighting steps on the drawings...

Uh oh...

Do you know what happens if you fail to upload? ;)
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Sounds like each DAR and FSDO office is a little different. During my application for the inspection certificate the office was in lockdown and we did it all online and over the phone. By the time we had the online application process working the FSDO and I were good friends! He didn't require an uploaded log since he was happy that the DAR (who previously worked in his office) was able to vouch for his impression that I built and was able to do the work on my plane...

So lesson learned: each FSDO will be different, contact them early (like day one) and ask about what they will want to see. Make contact with your DAR as well, they can be a wealth of information during the process (my DAR was a life long Boeing inspector and an easy going guy, enjoyable experience all around).

The FAA is your friend (well, when they're not after your ticket!) and most are flyers just like you and me. The process really isn't that difficult.

Cheers

Had the same DAR do my inspection in July this year - same very enjoyable experience. My builder log had lots of pictures ( a few with me in them at various critical stages of the build). I had binders with wiring diagrams and test procedures that I had written to power up the displays and check out the avionics. I had all the Vans service bulletins in a binder with those applicable and those incorporated noted. My builders log was a summary of the work completed by month and year referencing the Vans build plans sheet number and page of the build instructions.
I applied for my repairman certificate and only got one question from the FSDO inspector during my phone interview about the basis for doing a condition inspection. No need to see my build log or any other verification that I had built the aircraft ( was sure he had talked with the DAR that did the inspection). The only glitch was the FAA IACRA system that the FSDO Inspector had to workaround to get my temporary repairman certificate approved so I could print it. In the end he got the upper hand on IACRA and I got a certificate issued.
Overall a rewarding and enjoyable experience.

KT
 
to quote an inspecter..........your airworthiness cert. and your driver's license.
i am sure each circumstance is different
 
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