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Problems Making Up a Dsub Connector

Saville

Well Known Member
Hello,

I'm embarking on adding an Infinity Grip to my RV-8 pilot stick.
There's a large bundle of wires coming out of the grip (maybe 20+ wires of 20 and 22 gauge) wrapped by some good thick insulator.

I'm having several problems and I'm looking for tips on how to make a clean, neat connector.

And by the way I mention Steinair a lot here because that's where I got my tools and I watched their dsub videos several times.

This posting is IN NO WAY a complaint against Steinair. It's my own inexperience that's causing me trouble - not Steinair tools or techniques.


Problem #1: Making Good crimps

The first image is the crimping tool I'm using . I got it from steinair who recommends it. I'm using standard sized pins. I watched the steinair video and it seems simple to use. The problem I'm having with it is then you insert the pin, it goes too far into the tool. The result is that there is only one crimp on the pin and that is outside the Orange mark - very close to the wire end of the pin. My understanding is that there should be a crimp between the orange and blue marks.

The second photo is a close up of a pin in the tool prior to crimping. It's down way too far I think.

I cannot find a means to adjust the tool for proper depth. I push the pin in what looks to be the right distance but it often is not.

See the third attachment - I don't think this crimp is good....too close to the pin end....to far away from the wire end.

Is there a way to adjust the tool? Did I get the high density fitting - is that the source of my problem?



Problem #2: Removing a pin from the connector

Look at the 4th photo. I cut back on the outer blue insulator to expose some distance on the wires, crimped on some pins and inserted them into the connector.

I watched the Steinair video on how to remove a pin using the red and white tool you see in the picture. The problem I'm having is that those wires are so short I cannot get them fed into the shank of the tool prior to pushing the tool into the pin hole. When Steinair showed you how to do it they had nice long wires to work with.

So what do people do when they have to make up a Dsub with a wire bundle? Do they cut back several inches on the outer insulator to expose a length of wire that's easier to work with?

If so then what do they use to "re-bundle" the wires? Heat shrink tubing? Or do you just lace them up? I'd rather the strain relief clamp onto insulator as opposed to the individual wires.

In reality the wires you see in the 4th picture will end up being even shorter because I cannot fit them into the backshell. They are too long I saw a video which had a good idea:

Arrange the wires the order they will go into the backshell and clamp them in a vise. Be sure the distance between the outside wires is about their distance when their pins are inserted into the connector. Snip the wires above the vise. They will now reach without a lot of extra wire like you see in the 4th picture.

But that will make it even tougher to get the pin out with the tool

I will also not be able to use the heat shrink tubing you see on the wires as that will thwart the removal tool even more.

So how does one handle a wire bundle like this in making up a Dsub connector?

Thanks!
 

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I also put a DB connector on my Infinity Grip to make the stick mechanism easy to remove if ever necessary.

Not sure about your first question but I have a crimp tool from Steinair that works perfectly every time.

My suggestion is to trim the blue insulation a bit more so that you have room to work with the wires. Prior to installing pins in the D-sub, slip a piece of heat shrink over the entire bundle to aid in strain relief where it exits the connector shell.

I found it necessary to twist the associated pairs, threes, and quint together in order to not lose which were which. If you're interested, I have a neat little sheet I used to keep track of which pin went where.... I'd be happy to email you a copy if you want.

Good luck
Fred
 
I have the same tool. It makes great crimps but the positioner is junk. In your pic it looks like the pin as not inserted far enough. Wind out the positioner - the pin should be inserted more.

What I did was screwed off the back cap and pushed the positioner insert and spring out. They are somewhere in my “might need them later” tray on my toolbox. Covered in dust.

To make the crimps - I place the pin on the wire and very gently insert it only so far as the base end of the pin is just less than flush from the surface of the tool. Gently start to close the tool so the teeth grab the pin and hold it from moving. Then put pressure on the wire to ensure it is seated fully in the pin and complete your crimp.

Doing it this way, I use the same tool for both dsub and Deutsch solid pins.

For your second question, you can just slip the tool over the wire 1/2” or so from the connector and slide it in. So long as you grip the wire and tool together when you pull the pin should come out. If it is a pin, you can also push with something from the other side on the tip of the pin.
 
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I have the same tool. It makes great crimps but the positioner is junk. In your pic it looks like the pin as not inserted far enough. Wind out the positioner - the pin should be inserted more.

What I did was screwed off the back cap and pushed the positioner insert and spring out. They are somewhere in my “might need them later” tray on my toolbox. Covered in dust.

To make the crimps - I place the pin on the wire and very gently insert it only so far as the base end of the pin is just less than flush from the surface of the tool. Gently start to close the tool so the teeth grab the pin and hold it from moving. Then put pressure on the wire to ensure it is seated fully in the pin and complete your crimp.

Doing it this way, I use the same tool for both dsub and Deutsch solid pins.

For your second question, you can just slip the tool over the wire 1/2” or so from the connector and slide it in. So long as you grip the wire and tool together when you pull the pin should come out. If it is a pin, you can also push with something from the other side on the tip of the pin.


I think the pin is too far IN to the tool. If I push it in any farther the set of 4 jaws that are visible when you close the tool will miss the pin entirely.

Attached is a picture of a pin I just crimped with the pin pushed into the tool all the way. I see only one crimp there and it's right on the orange line.
If I backed out the positioner more it would miss the metal pin entirely.

My understanding is that that is not a good crimp.

I tried to put the pin in the tool gently, as you suggest, but that's extremely annoying and I can't get consistently placed crimps that way. The result is what you see in the third photo of my initial post. I was wondering if there's a more solid technique.
 

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Ask Stein how to adjust the depth of the pin. I got the similar crimper but I didn't have the same problems you are having. I made my own wire bundles and they don't have the wire sheating as shown in your picture. It will be more difficult to remove the pin with shorter wires.

I also use the plastic pin remover tool instead of the metal. The plastic is much thinner. However, they get damaged more often so get 4 or 5.
 
I think the pin is too far IN to the tool. If I push it in any farther the set of 4 jaws that are visible when you close the tool will miss the pin entirely.

Attached is a picture of a pin I just crimped with the pin pushed into the tool all the way. I see only one crimp there and it's right on the orange line.
If I backed out the positioner more it would miss the metal pin entirely.

My understanding is that that is not a good crimp.

I tried to put the pin in the tool gently, as you suggest, but that's extremely annoying and I can't get consistently placed crimps that way. The result is what you see in the third photo of my initial post. I was wondering if there's a more solid technique.

In your photo on this post, the pin was too far in the tool. In the original photo, the pin was not in far enough. Perhaps on the original photo it got hung up on the positioner (not down the middle)?

I had the same problem as you. With the positioner in place the pins are in waaay too deep, when with the cap wound all the way in. It needed to be able to be screwed in more. If you really want to use the positioner, what about a small washer in the end of the cap to shim the positioner closer to the teeth?

Or spend 2 AMU’s as get a Daniels one. I’ve found doing it the way I suggested doesn’t take very long and you get nice crimps.
 

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In your photo on this post, the pin was too far in the tool.

Right. Which is my issue: when I push the pin all the way into the positioner, it's too far and the crimp is not in the right spot.


In the original photo, the pin was not in far enough. Perhaps on the original photo it got hung up on the positioner (not down the middle)?

No in the original photo I was using your technique of pushing the pin in the tool the "right" amount because all the way was too far. But as I said I can't get consistently good crimps that way.



I had the same problem as you. With the positioner in place the pins are in waaay too deep, when with the cap wound all the way in. It needed to be able to be screwed in more.

Yes that is the problem I have. I was wondering if there was a way to adjust the tool so the pin didn't got in too deeply.

If you really want to use the positioner, what about a small washer in the end of the cap to shim the positioner closer to the teeth?

I could do that but my first attempt at a solution was to see if there was a tool adjustment that I was unaware of.


Or spend 2 AMU’s as get a Daniels one. I’ve found doing it the way I suggested doesn’t take very long and you get nice crimps.

Might just go ahead and spend the cash. If I replace the instrument panel I may be making a lot of crimps



Thanks for your help.
 
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Daniels

Might just go ahead and spend the cash. If I replace the instrument panel I may be making a lot of crimps

Thanks for your help.

Daniels is a nice tool. Check Ebay for a used one. I got mine for a steal compared to new.
 
I had great success with the same tool you have. I actually enjoyed doing the crimps and dsub connectors. I did end up getting a Daniels but never used it. It is still in my hangar in Idaho or I would let you borrow it. I bet there is someone at your airport that would let you borrow theirs. Tell them you will leave them a nice deposit and then you will remember who you borrowed it from!
 
I have this crimper and it works as advertised. Wire into pin, hold wire, pin up. Lower crimper over the pin until it stops just below the surface. Squeeze. As you noted there are different depth limiters (the little part you can unscrew, opposite where you insert the pin). I’d suggest sending just the depth limiter part back to Stein, ask if it’s missing anything, is it the high density one by mistake (or maybe you have high density pins?). Or if you know someone with this crimper compare the two.
 
Very curious as to what causes the bad crimps

I'm just about to start a project where I will face the same issues you are confronting.

The D-sub video Stein has showing the red import crimper makes it seem as easy as insert pin, close the crimper.
https://youtu.be/Tt52JeRPo7k

I'm encouraged that others have made that tool work, and like them, wwonder if maybe you need the "other" positioner for high density pins, or vice-versa.
 
I'm just about to start a project where I will face the same issues you are confronting.

The D-sub video Stein has showing the red import crimper makes it seem as easy as insert pin, close the crimper.
https://youtu.be/Tt52JeRPo7k

I'm encouraged that others have made that tool work, and like them, wwonder if maybe you need the "other" positioner for high density pins, or vice-versa.


I'm using standard pins. I will check with Steinair about that on Monday
 
I have used the crimper you have from Stein for hundreds of pins and sockets, and they never failed. Make sure the cover holding the crimper collet is screwed in all the way. The tool is designed to set the crimp on the orange band. If you are concerned, pull the pin/socket out a fraction of an inch, turn it very slightly, and crimp again. I’ve done this countless times. If you’re not careful and pull it out too far before setting the second crimp, it will affect the ability to secure the pin in the d-sub connector - and to remove it later if you want. That second crimp needs to be set below the collar that engages the pin/socket in the connector far enough to not affect the pin removal tool from disengaging pin from the connector. Installed as designed these pins and sockets should work and you should always check this by making a good pull on the pin/socket before inserting it in the connector. When I’ve used these d-sub pins and sockets to make a low profile, inexpensive connection without the d-sub connector, you can be less discriminate about that second crimp - in fact in cases like this, I usually put a slight ‘squeeze’ on the barrel of the socket so that the pin has a slightly interference fit and doesn’t pull out as easily.
 
Crimping any pin, socket, ring terminal, butt splice etc.... Has the same rule of thumb as a buzz job. Only one pass allowed. Like the pilot who goes back for a second pass and gets turned in by a neighbor, a second crimp on an electrical connector puts the friction lock value out of tolerance. Any additional crimp cycle will loosen the swedge because it is impossible for the crimp dies to hit the exact same spot. If the contact is rotated before a second pass it is even worse. The second indents cause the original indents areas to radially bend out by deforming. This does not exclude the two-pass open-barrel molex type crimpers because each pass is crimping a separate area on the contact once, with no overlapping. Only way to do it properly is with correct depth positioning and proper dies set within the no/no go AWG range on tool adjustment dial and then in one complete cycle of the crimp tool.
 
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I recently had to replace my roll servo and in the process insert a noise suppression capacitor. This required installing new db9 connectors. I used these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076F6X8WJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 d-sub connectors that have a PCB with screw terminals. A bit bulky & pricey but well worth it.

I doubt I will ever go back to crimping dsub pins. Particularly helpful when you have to get into an inverted yoga position to finish the job.
 
I admit that my initial post may have been confusing so let me organize things just a little bit.


1. What are the attributes of a good Dsub crimp?

How many crimps?

Where should they be located on the barrel?


When I use my Dsub crimping too as directed, I get a crimp that looks like the first attachment

There is only 1 crimp and it's right on the orange band.

I don't think this is a good crimp.

"using as directed" means I have the pin pushed all the way into the tool, I've turned the adjustment knob all the way down.

So what are the attributes of a good Dsub crimp?

Thanks!
 

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The crimp in your last post looks fine to me. The $450 tool will not improve upon it. You have very defined crimp marks, and it is far enough from the end of the socket to not have deformed the edge. Give it a pull, and make sure it stays on the end of the wire - Job done If you feel better putting a spacer in the stop so that you are crimping between the bands then you can, but it will do nothing to improve the integraty of the crimp, IMHO.
 
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