What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Push pull controls

wirejock

Well Known Member
How should the controls be labeled?
Obviously Throttle, Mixture, Prop RPM or maybe not obvious.
What about function?
Push-Full?
Push-Faster?
Push-whatever?
Just wondering what the DAR will expect to see.
 
How should the controls be labeled?
Obviously Throttle, Mixture, Prop RPM or maybe not obvious.
What about function?
Push-Full?
Push-Faster?
Push-whatever?
Just wondering what the DAR will expect to see.

I would imagine Push Open, Push Rich, Push High RPM, Push Cold.. ect
 
Probably anything that is unambiguous would be okay, but I get that you want it to be minimal, neat, clear, etc.

Maybe look at what's in the type-certified world for some ideas?

e.g., from a pic of a 182 panel

Throttle
Push
Open


Prop Push
Pitch Incr
RPM


Mixture
Pull
Lean

Ugh. Not the most elegant, is it? Let us know what you come up with. (I use the DJI quadrant, which is all labelled neatly already).
 
Labels

Hi Larry,
Just went through that with my DAR. He said push open for the throttle and push rich for the mixture. Mine is FP so I don’t have a prop control.
Regards
Ivan
 
Push to Go!

Hi Larry,
Just went through that with my DAR. He said push open for the throttle and push rich for the mixture. Mine is FP so I don’t have a prop control.
Regards
Ivan

I do prefer "PUSH-Faster" but that makes sense. Thanks
I'm planning to put the label on the end as the panel is already done.
Push-Open
Push-Rich
Push-RPM?
 
2A13DD5A-B336-4196-AAF5-B7820B9EEAFC.jpg

Here’s how I did mine. Matte labels from aircraft engravers in CT. It looks nice. After this picture, at my DARs direction, I added one beside the flap switch saying down to lower,
 
Labels

I pondered this same question when I was finishing my Pietenpol.

In the end, I took a notepad and camera and spent several minutes in a fresh-from-the-factory Husky. For everything that was applicable, I replicated what the factory had put on the Husky's placards.

The DAR was satisfied.

Cheers, Ken
 
I took a different approach. I purposely left them off as I think it is about the stupidest **** thing to ever be enforced. I was hoping the inspector didn't catch it but when he couldn't find anything else he said "wellllllll I suppose those should probably be labeled...". Dangit! :) So I put little labels that say manifold, prop RPM, and mixture.
 
Last edited:
Dang.. I also neglected the PUSH THIS, PULL THAT wording when I did my panel (rub-on) lettering. Would be a shame to put ugly stickers all over my new panel. I think for purely aesthetic reasons I might have to order another run of rub-on labels for these.
 
Labeling requirements

75FDDA6E-824C-4B7E-9203-4E4D778C515C.jpg
Here’s the relevant part of the inspection checklist my DAR used, for what it is worth. I know there is a lot of room for interpretation of how the FARs apply, but my approach was to err on the side of compliance.
 
Dang.. I also neglected the PUSH THIS, PULL THAT wording when I did my panel (rub-on) lettering. Would be a shame to put ugly stickers all over my new panel. I think for purely aesthetic reasons I might have to order another run of rub-on labels for these.

I made round labels and glued them to the tops of the push-pull control knobs.
 
I took a different approach. I purposely left them off as I think it is about the stupidest **** thing to ever be enforced. I was hoping the inspector didn't catch it but when he couldn't find anything else he said "wellllllll I suppose those should probably be labeled...". Dangit! :) So I put little labels that say manifold, prop RPM, and mixture.

View attachment 18911
Here’s the relevant part of the inspection checklist my DAR used, for what it is worth. I know there is a lot of room for interpretation of how the FARs apply, but my approach was to err on the side of compliance.

Let's look at the regs.

91.9 (cited in that DAR checklist) says:
SECTION: Sec. 91.9
Amendment Number: Initial, Effective Date: 09/30/1963

TITLE: Civil aircraft flight manual, marking, and placard requirements.

SECTION RULE: (a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating limitations specified in the approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, markings, and placards, or as otherwise prescribed by the certificating authority of the country of registry.
(b) No person may operate a U.S.-registered civil aircraft--
(1) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is required by Sec. 21.5 of this chapter unless there is available in the aircraft a current, approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual or the manual provided for in Sec. 121.141(b); and
(2) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is not required by Sec. 21.5 of this chapter, unless there is available in the aircraft a current approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, approved manual material, markings, and placards, or any combination thereof.
(c) No person may operate a U.S.-registered civil aircraft unless that aircraft is identified in accordance with part 45 of this chapter.
(d) Any person taking off or landing a helicopter certificated under part 29 of this chapter at a heliport constructed over water may make such momentary flight as is necessary for takeoff or landing through the prohibited range of the limiting height-speed envelope established for the
helicopter if that flight through the prohibited range takes place over water on which a safe ditching can be accomplished and if the helicopter is amphibious or is equipped with floats or other emergency flotation gear adequate to accomplish a safe emergency ditching on open water.

Though 23.777 is no longer a currently-applicable regulation (thanks to the rewrite of Part 23 a few years ago), it stated:
SECTION: Sec. 23.777

TITLE: Cockpit controls.

SECTION RULE: (a) Each cockpit control must be located and (except where its function is obvious) identified to provide convenient operation and to prevent confusion and inadvertent operation.

(b) The controls must be located and arranged so that the pilot, when seated, has full and unrestricted movement of each control without interference from either his clothing or the cockpit structure.
(c) Powerplant controls must be located--


(1) For multiengine airplanes, on the pedestal or overhead at or near the center of the cockpit;

(2) For single and tandem seated single-engine airplanes, on the left side console or instrument panel;

(3) For other single-engine airplanes at or near the center of the cockpit, on the pedestal, instrument panel, or overhead; and

(4) For airplanes with side-by-side pilot seats and with two sets of powerplant controls, on left and right consoles.


(d) When separate and distinct control levers are co-located (such as located together on the pedestal), the control location order from left to right must be power (thrust) lever, propeller (rpm control), and mixture control (condition lever and fuel cut-off for turbine- powered airplanes). Power (thrust) levers must be easily distinguishable from other controls, and provide for accurate, consistent operation...

There are also the standard knob shapes specified in 23.781, which we're all familiar with.

I would think that controls shaped, located, and operating per the standards above would meet 23.777(a); if they're located and shaped appropriately the function should be obvious to anyone with minimal flight training and thus no label should be necessary. It seems silly to me to require that.

Of course, the other argument could be made that five minutes' time with a labelmaker could just avoid the hassle with the DAR, and is it really the hill to make one's stand on?

But then there's one final question to ask... if everything else has to be labeled and identified, why aren't the stick and pedals labeled and identified? I mean, surely if we have to label the throttle, we need to label the stick, right? We could make up a bunch of "Houses get bigger" and "Houses get smaller" labels...
 
I love me some placards.... (excuse the English). The Black Blue Red is the placard right? A trained pilot knows what to do with them. Some of the guidance for certified planes.
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_45-4.pdf
https://www.eaa.org/eaa/aircraft-bu...-and-cabin-interior/markings-placards-numbers

Thinking back to all the planes I flew, small and large, the thrust levers or throttle (mixture/prop) some had no placard. It is possible placard fell off or was small and memory does not serve me. Also possible it never was placarded.

Examples may be better

THROTTLE................PROP......................MIXTURE.............MIXTURE
PUSH.......................PUSH.....................PUSH..........or......PULL
OPEN.......................HIGH RPM...............RICH..................LEAN CUTOFF

Just saying OPEN or FULL or HIGH or LEAN or RICH in a push pull control may not be clear without pull or push. A control quadrant with labels on the base is clear and obvious.

I looked at a Cessna Panel on the web. The above is Approx what I saw. However the one placard below should be mandatory in accordance with 14CFR.

rxliGIj.jpeg
 
Last edited:
I took a different approach. I purposely left them off as I think it is about the stupidest **** thing to ever be enforced. I was hoping the inspector didn't catch it but when he couldn't find anything else he said "wellllllll I suppose those should probably be labeled...". Dangit! :) So I put little labels that say manifold, prop RPM, and mixture.

I have to agree, at least for the types of airplanes we're talking about here. Is there a pilot alive who doesn't know that you *push forward* on throttle to open, RPM to increase, and mixture to enrichen? Or that ever had to look at the little label and figure it out in flight?

I can see that with a number of levers or push-pull cables in a complex cockpit, it might makes good sense to ensure they're all labelled, and it's easier to write a simple regulation and apply it across the board.

But it's frankly silly, IMO, in a single-engine 4-banger plane.

(Did you remove those labels after he left? <wink>)
 
Let's look at the regs.

91.9 (cited in that DAR checklist) says:

SECTION: Sec. 23.777

TITLE: Cockpit controls.

SECTION RULE: (a) Each cockpit control must be located and (except where its function is obvious) identified to provide convenient operation and to prevent confusion and inadvertent operation.

That's clear enough for me to not worry about labeling of my throttle, prop, and mixture controls.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top