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Isham or Cleaveland

jssaylor2007

Active Member
This'll probably get moved soon, but is there anything missing in the Isham Kit that would be nice to have? Same for the Cleaveland. Also what optional upgrades are worth having in both kits? Lastly, is the Sioux a dramatic upgrade over the orange clone drill in the Isham kit? The Sioux seems to be out of stock most places.
 
Also, will both of these get me through the first bit of my build no problem? I assume most of the optional stuff is needed later, but maybe not.
 
If you call Cleaveland and talk to Mike, just ask him. He’s built an RV10 and knows what most people prefer.

I got the upgraded drill and the pneumatic squeezer. I later bought the DRDT2 and should have got it from the get-go. Much nicer than whacking at the dimpler with a hammer (made my wife happier too).
 
I built my RV-7 with the Cleaveland tool kit and used every tool that came with it. You will end up buying additional tools over the life of the project. I thought an angle-drill attachment (with bits) was mission essential equipment for the build although it did not come with the kit. A Dremel tool is another one.
 
I bought the Isham tool kit with most of the ugprades, and I love it. I use just about every tool in that kit, and its incredibly complete.

I've only had to add a few things, mostly "luxury" tools like a pneumatic cleco tool, Numatx squeezer, asssortment of files, etc.

I do recommend most of the Isham upgrades though. Get the Sioux drill, swivel flush set (great for beginners, sort of like training wheels), etc.
 
I just received all my tools from Isham. I opted for a drill from Pan American tool which seems to have good reviews. I also went with the DRDT2 and have everything set up in the shop. Just waiting on the kit to be shipped. I’m sure you can’t go wrong with either vendor.
 
Appreciate the replies!

So has anyone used that Orange drill? The Sioux shows to be out of stock, so was wondering if it'd be worth getting the orange and trying to find the Sioux elsewhere.
 
Obviously, all of this is my opinion...

DRDT-2 - I've used it, it's awesome. It's also bulky, heavy and mostly single function. I'm in a limited space shop and decided to stick with my C-Frame even though it's loud. Additionally, there's a Cleveland conversion kit that turns the C-Frame into a back rivet set. Likely not going back to the steel plate method unless I can't figure out how to make it work in some situation.

If you've got the space and the money, the DRDT-2 is probably worth it.

I have a NUMATX, it's amazing after you set it up. Come with several cups of patience on setup though.

You may want both a hand squeezer and a pneumatic variant. Hand squeezers are nicer / easier for one-off squeezing and "fattening" replacement rivets (not sure what the official verbiage is here). If you have a row of rivets to run though, the pneumatics shine here. This is especially true of the NUMATX which for all intents and purposes has 2 settings - one for 3/32 rivets and one for 1/8 rivets. Setup a single purpose regulator/gauge for it, figure out those 2 settings, mark them on the dial face, and you're done. I've also used a standard pneumatic, and it's not really much more effort to use. I'm just lazy.

Cleveland has an AEX wedge trailing edge squeezer set that's "expensive" for a single purpose item, but makes trailing edge rivet work Easy button work. Since you partially set the rivets on the first go, this is also where a hand squeezer is the go to tool (IMO). Final set can be done with a pneumatic.

I have a Sioux drill and love it. I've also done a ton of airplane part drilling with a battery operated Dewalt drill, straight off the Home Depot Aviation Supply aisle. The pneumatic drills are super light, so for extended use they are nicer to use. Also, the pneumatic has higher speed so for fresh hole drilling (vs. pre-punched) it's better, especially through thicker aluminum. If you had your heart set on Sioux, I don't see a reason why you couldn't get started with a normal drill until it came in stock.

I have a 2x (Sioux) and 3x (Avery) gun. I use and like both.

Tungsten bucking bar - just get it.

I do most of my shopping with Cleveland now, and have no experience with Isham. Cleveland has always given me excellent service.

Other nice to haves:
  • Belt / Disk sander - I didn't see the point of having something like this for an airplane project. I was wrong. This is also one of those items where there are several variants and personal preferences really come into play.
  • 10" Drill press - I try to do all my countersinking with this.
  • 10" band saw with a metal cutting blade.

Both the belt/disc sander and band saw have eaten parts, so get familiar with those tools on something other than your project. This is a good rule, in general, anyway.
 
Obviously, all of this is my opinion...

DRDT-2 - I've used it, it's awesome. It's also bulky, heavy and mostly single function. I'm in a limited space shop and decided to stick with my C-Frame even though it's loud. Additionally, there's a Cleveland conversion kit that turns the C-Frame into a back rivet set. Likely not going back to the steel plate method unless I can't figure out how to make it work in some situation.

If you've got the space and the money, the DRDT-2 is probably worth it.

I have a NUMATX, it's amazing after you set it up. Come with several cups of patience on setup though.

You may want both a hand squeezer and a pneumatic variant. Hand squeezers are nicer / easier for one-off squeezing and "fattening" replacement rivets (not sure what the official verbiage is here). If you have a row of rivets to run though, the pneumatics shine here. This is especially true of the NUMATX which for all intents and purposes has 2 settings - one for 3/32 rivets and one for 1/8 rivets. Setup a single purpose regulator/gauge for it, figure out those 2 settings, mark them on the dial face, and you're done. I've also used a standard pneumatic, and it's not really much more effort to use. I'm just lazy.

Cleveland has an AEX wedge trailing edge squeezer set that's "expensive" for a single purpose item, but makes trailing edge rivet work Easy button work. Since you partially set the rivets on the first go, this is also where a hand squeezer is the go to tool (IMO). Final set can be done with a pneumatic.

I have a Sioux drill and love it. I've also done a ton of airplane part drilling with a battery operated Dewalt drill, straight off the Home Depot Aviation Supply aisle. The pneumatic drills are super light, so for extended use they are nicer to use. Also, the pneumatic has higher speed so for fresh hole drilling (vs. pre-punched) it's better, especially through thicker aluminum. If you had your heart set on Sioux, I don't see a reason why you couldn't get started with a normal drill until it came in stock.

I have a 2x (Sioux) and 3x (Avery) gun. I use and like both.

Tungsten bucking bar - just get it.

I do most of my shopping with Cleveland now, and have no experience with Isham. Cleveland has always given me excellent service.

Other nice to haves:
  • Belt / Disk sander - I didn't see the point of having something like this for an airplane project. I was wrong. This is also one of those items where there are several variants and personal preferences really come into play.
  • 10" Drill press - I try to do all my countersinking with this.
  • 10" band saw with a metal cutting blade.

Both the belt/disc sander and band saw have eaten parts, so get familiar with those tools on something other than your project. This is a good rule, in general, anyway.

So on the eating parts note, how quick is Vans about getting replacement parts to you? If it something where you are out of commission for a month?
 
So on the eating parts note, how quick is Vans about getting replacement parts to you? If it something where you are out of commission for a month?

Replacement parts I've had to order have been relatively small, and arrived in 3-5 days via US priority mail.
 
I've got a 5 gallon "chuck-it Bucket" for parts I have messed up. When I have ordered parts, Vans takes a day or two to fill the order (depending on what time of day you submit the order), and I choose the cheapest shipping option. But, its usually about a week from order submission to delivery of those parts.

I've had to order replacement ribs, lead counterweight, small skins, etc. It's never held up my build progress, as there's usually a step you can go ahead and do will waiting on those replacement parts. Theres always deburring to do....(even its just breaking the skin edges).
 
Brown Tool has some surplus older model Sioux drills for $195. Great tool and highly recommended on the -10 (current version) because virtually every hole on the current kit kits drilled. (Future RV-10 kits over time will have full size holes)

https://www.browntool.com/default.aspx

I think the Sioux tools are worth the extra $ - I have Sioux palm drill and rivet gun and they are impressively well made.
 
Data Point

Isham gave excellent service when my long-out-of-warranty squeezer malfunctioned.


Gary Kohler
7A Flying
 
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