What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Riveting Confidence

bk1bennett

Well Known Member
For first-time builders: At what point in your build did you gain the sense of confidence that you were going to get flush riveting accomplished without dinging a skin?
 
buy a swivel head flush rivet set if you don't already have one. if you always set the rivet in the middle of the rivet set you will minimize denying the skin.
 
Practice

Practice. A lot. You'll get there. It is a perishible skill so you need to practice often.
 
buy a swivel head flush rivet set if you don't already have one. if you always set the rivet in the middle of the rivet set you will minimize denying the skin.

I would go with the counter argument. I started with a swivel, but went to the straight flush set after a few skin indentations when riveting. It's easier for me to use. Get the set perpendicular to the skin and have at it.
 
To be honest, it took a while, I initially had the gun turned up too high. Damaged more than a few pieces. I had a great teacher/mentor who took the time to teach me the nuisances of riveting. Just keep at it and one day you?ll grab the rivet gun without thinking about it. Like the poster above, practice makes perfect. I would do a rivet line every day for a few months trying to get it right. (sound like a junkie)

Stick with it and it will come ...

Jim
 
I think some of the things which I learned the hard way were:

1. ALWAYS clamp the work so it won't move or bounce
2. Resist the temptation to turn up the pressure to get it done faster
3. Use the swivel head, but you still have to make sure it's straight
4. The non-swivel head is great for tight places and fixing proud rivet heads
4. always use riveting tape to avoid blemishing the skin
5. Use a tungsten bucking bar
6. Don't pull the trigger and hope for the best, get everything lined up perfectly. Don't be impatient
7. Invest in a pneumatic squeezer and a DRDT-2 dimpler
8. When using a squeezer, use a faucet washer or similar on the shop side to squeeze the material together when setting the rivet
9. And before you start drilling out a questionable rivet, always remember:

(from page 5-04)
"Poorly set and cracked rivet heads were tested in tension to determine how well formed a head has to be in order to develop full strength. The tensile strengths of all the rivets were within five percent of the strongest. The test indicated that minor deviations from the theoretically desired shape of head are not cause for concern or replacement. The second rivet that is driven in any one hole [is] likely to be more defective than the first because the hole is enlarged and [the] rivet will be more likely to buckle......"
 
As a new builder about to finish my RV-10 empennage, the best trick I found is to positively identify the pressure setting you are using for the rivet gun. Starting out I had an inline pressure gauge coming from my compressor as well as an adjustable flow restrictor at the gun. By adjusting the pressure at the gun, I never knew the pressure I was actually experiencing while riveting. I dreaded the gun and the riveting process was more violet than it needed to be. I removed the inline flow adjuster and now I reset my compressor/inline gauge to read b/w 25 - 45 psi depending on the rivet size. For the skins on the empennage, 25-35 psi worked just fine and made the processs much more enjoyable and gave me greater confidence controlling the process while making great looking, consistent rivets. Practice while creeping up to the setting that works good for you without work hardening the rivet. Before running other tools, always recheck to make sure the pressure is reset correctly for the next tool. Hope this helps.
 
I would go with the counter argument. I started with a swivel, but went to the straight flush set after a few skin indentations when riveting. It's easier for me to use. Get the set perpendicular to the skin and have at it.

Did you use the one with the rubber collar? I was going to order the straight flush set with the rubber collar from Cleaveland, but in reading the details on their website it said the rubber collar could present some issues (I think it was related to the fact that the rubber collar puts a gap between the face of the rivet set and the rivet head). Anyway, I ordered the one without the rubber collar. Hopefully it will work fine, but I'm thinking of also ordering the swivel head just in case.
 
Roman, welcome aboard the good ship VAF:D

Thanks! I've been reading this forum for the past few months. I've read everything from posts on performance specs (different models) to vernier vs. quadrant for throttle controls (-14). I finally ordered my -14A empennage last week and have been getting my garage ready for delivery. I realized I need to focus back on the basics. I've practiced riveting but I know I have much to learn. Like the original poster, I've been wondering the same thing about riveting and at what point the confidence level comes in.
 
I built the tool box practice kit and two of the airfoil shaped practice kits with my son. Good practice with actual materials and had plenty of drill out practice along the way.
 
PHXflyer: ".....I ordered the one without the rubber collar. Hopefully it will work fine, but I'm thinking of also ordering the swivel head just in case......"

there are basically 2 ways to rivet:
1. someone bucks the rivet while another uses the gun
2. doing both gun and bucking bar yourself

In 1) the person on the gun has both hands to align and hold the gun steady, usually one hand on the trigger and the other holding the set steady and in alignment (careful not to pinch your fingers)

A non-swivel head is fine here, and usually works better than the swivel

in 2) it's often very hard to get perfect alignment of the set using just one hand on the gun and reaching around to buck with the other. Also the set tends to move wherever gravity pulls it.

for cases like this a swivel head with the rubber edges is much less likely to cause damage and slide.

I sanded the rubber down a bit on the swivel head I used, but left enough to require pressure to touch the work
 
I'm no expert, but I've found that I have much more confidence and get better results on the 3/16" rivets when using the 2x gun.
 
Swivel Head Flush Set..

..and blue painter's tape. I use a small piece of tape combined with the swivel head flush set to get perfectly driven rivets with no marks on the skins. Every 15-20 rivets, I change the small piece of tape on the swivel head. I found that a roll of 1" blue tape works perfectly. It also helps to 1) secure the work, 2) have an adjustable hookup on the gun, so you can adjust the air pressure as needed, and 3) get a second set of hands to buck, if needed.
 
Best advice

I think some of the things which I learned the hard way were:

1. ALWAYS clamp the work so it won't move or bounce
2. Resist the temptation to turn up the pressure to get it done faster
3. Use the swivel head, but you still have to make sure it's straight
4. The non-swivel head is great for tight places and fixing proud rivet heads
4. always use riveting tape to avoid blemishing the skin
5. Use a tungsten bucking bar
6. Don't pull the trigger and hope for the best, get everything lined up perfectly. Don't be impatient
7. Invest in a pneumatic squeezer and a DRDT-2 dimpler
8. When using a squeezer, use a faucet washer or similar on the shop side to squeeze the material together when setting the rivet
9. And before you start drilling out a questionable rivet, always remember:

(from page 5-04)
"Poorly set and cracked rivet heads were tested in tension to determine how well formed a head has to be in order to develop full strength. The tensile strengths of all the rivets were within five percent of the strongest. The test indicated that minor deviations from the theoretically desired shape of head are not cause for concern or replacement. The second rivet that is driven in any one hole [is] likely to be more defective than the first because the hole is enlarged and [the] rivet will be more likely to buckle......"

The only rivets i will drill out 100% of the time are clinched rivets. These are usually due to not clamping the work or not paying attention (#6 above)
The only time I use a faucet washer or piece of model fuel tubing is to keep the rivet in place, or to keep the pieces together before riveting. Otherwise I tend to get more clinched rivets. YMMV
 
MODEL FUEL TUBING!!! I keep reading about putting rubber grommets on rivets and wondering how I could make such a thing....
 
Back
Top