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Panic buying an engine - choices to make

ScottK

Active Member
I'm fighting an urge to pull the trigger on my engine order with Vans, ahead of the upcoming price increase. I'm torn about whether it's a good idea considering I'm still working on the wings and I may not need the engine for another year or two. I have good dry storage conditions, but there'd still be a warranty clock looming.

Plus, I still don't know what engine to order. Carb or injected, mags or EIS or P-mags. I'd like the option to run auto fuel. I feel like I need a crash course in the subject of engine selection. Pretty sure I want a composite FP (GA) prop though.

I guess I'm asking what you'd do, or what you did and why.
 
Well, my plan is to just choke it down, plan to pay more when I'm really ready. I am way too uninformed to make these decisions right now. And I fully recognize there will probably be yet another price increase between the one upcoming and when I'm ready. Also possible is some of the panic-buying builders will sell their unused engines in the next couple years at a significant discount. Could happen.
 
Also going to wait. Would rather spend a few k more when the time is right than have an engine I don’t yet need start to rot away in storage.
 
I'm fighting an urge to pull the trigger on my engine order with Vans, ahead of the upcoming price increase.
I guess I'm asking what you'd do, or what you did and why.

You and me, both. I talked to ta Lycoming rep a few weeks ago, unaware of the price increase. Basically, I want the YIO-390-EXP119 Dual E-Mags Ignition, Airflow Performance fuel system w/Acc. (What's in the accessories?) Also, if you're pulling one trigger for savings, you might as well order the prop at the same time and save $1k. I am going with the two blade Hartzell CS. But that's a bigger 25% down, too. My thought is that:

1) Even with inflation going on, I don't know where I could invest $60k and get an instant 15% return, which is the same thing as getting the engine now. Even if you don't need it for another year, that's a 7.5% return, something I haven't seen in decades.

2) I've heard and Van's has refuted, that the current order Thrunderbolts are delivering in May 2023, hopefully about when I'll need it.

3) I placed two calls to Lycoming today, and had to leave messages. My question is basically could the decisions such as you describe be make closer to my engine build time, and I haven't received an answer yet.

4) I am hoping that someone here can put a price tag on the warranty.
 
Also going to wait. Would rather spend a few k more when the time is right than have an engine I don’t yet need start to rot away in storage.

My thoughts exactly. I was going to purchase ahead of the price increase. My local engine shop suggested I procure a good core to disassemble and IRAN. I think I’m now going that route as I just can’t bring myself to spend 62k on an experimental category engine.

In the end, you have a new looking motor with all parts NDT and all bearings and wear items replaced including cylinder overhauls. This can all be done for half the price of a new Thunderbolt and that’s including the cost of buying a core.

No brainer in my opinion. Cores are hard to come by, glad I have time.
 
My engine was nine years old, maybe ten when we ran it for the first time. It was always stored in Wyoming or Colorado and was in great shape. In Utah, I'd bet that an engine you choose now will also do well.

Dave
 
Engine choice

I'm fighting an urge to pull the trigger on my engine order with Vans, ahead of the upcoming price increase. I'm torn about whether it's a good idea considering I'm still working on the wings and I may not need the engine for another year or two. I have good dry storage conditions, but there'd still be a warranty clock looming.

Plus, I still don't know what engine to order. Carb or injected, mags or EIS or P-mags. I'd like the option to run auto fuel. I feel like I need a crash course in the subject of engine selection. Pretty sure I want a composite FP (GA) prop though.

I guess I'm asking what you'd do, or what you did and why.

I wouldn't sweat the warranty. Unless you time it perfectly, warranty is going to be very short or expire. Mine is like Dave's. New in crate several years old. Dessicant marker was still like new. Borescope looked like new. Saved thousands. Yes. Warranty was expired. Did I mention saving thousands?
Choice comes down to a few dependencies. Otherwise, you're going to be in modification zone.
Model? 9? 320. Yes, you can install a 540 on there but you're in serious mod zone.
Injected or carb? Choice will drive the fuse decision. If you want Vans standard stuff. Both have pluses and minuses. Do you want carb heat? Do you want the cowl snorkel? Carb. No snorkel? IO-320. Yes, you can buy horz induction and use a snorkel. You can do anything with some mods. You're dimes.
CS or FP? I suggest buying CS and leave the crank plug. Easy to change. Better resale as well.
 
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I have an email earlier this week from Lycoming answering my question about lead time. Thunderbolt order placed now will deliver May/June 2023. If you wait 6 months I’d bet an order for a Vanilla Lycoming will also deliver around the same time but cost the same or more as a Thunderbolt order costs right now.

Store it indoors, make use of the “formal living room” for something other than furniture nobody sits on.
 
Buy now, store for later.

I wouldn't sweat the warranty. Unless you time it perfectly, warranty is going to be very short or expire. Mine is like Dave's. New in crate several years old. Dessicant marker was still like new. Borescope looked like new. Saved thousands. Yes. Warranty was expired. Did I mention saving thousands?

Ditto

Buy now, keep it sealed and pickled. Later only unseal when needed, plug all possible air access and install desiccant plugs. JMHO.
 
Ditto

Buy now, keep it sealed and pickled. Later only unseal when needed, plug all possible air access and install desiccant plugs. JMHO.

Yup. I pulled the plug and ordered the engine and prop for the savings. Who wants to be the richest corpse in the graveyard?
 
Chris was the POC I had at lycoming for my engine purchase. I asked him about the preservation from the factory and he said that vans customer get the highest level of preservation because they understand that it’s not going directly into service. He said the paperwork says the packaging is good for 6 months, but stored untouched from the factory in climate controlled spaces, the engine could last decades and still look brand new. I too was concerned about storage and warranty but I’m glad I made the investment last July. It’s already saved me 10k and that to me is well worth the corrosion/warranty risk
 
I ordered a YO-360 from Van's a year ago and paid $29,200, engine delivered last October.
New price on same engine now $37.900.
 
So if you do panic buy and end up with the engine, just remember there is Lycoming service instruction No. 1481B that spells out how to inspect your factory pickled engine.

And just for the record, when I spoke to Lycoming tech support, they were not cavalier about how long a factory picked engine would last. They indicated following 1481B was important.

That being said, there are non Lycoming methods for keeping the engine pickled that I think I would follow if the engine was going to be unused for more than two years.... filling up the case to the brim with oil (protects the camshaft) and fogging the cylinders periodically is one method.
 
I plan on buying on Monday. Prop and engine. IO-360-M1B Dual Pmag, Thunderbolt. It will be less expensive at 41k with prop discount than the new price of 43k (assume new price is without prop discount) for a non-thunderbolt on Tuesday. $1000 cheaper, long lead delivers when I need it, and AFP injection. Most likely the new version of the AFP FM-150 injection will be standard by then. Talking to Don at AFP, the new version eliminates issues with brackets and fitment under the cowl for a stock fit. Which is another bonus.


I bet Vans will be slammed Monday after the weekend talking at the airport about the new engine prices.
 
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