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New RV10 Accident Report.

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One year the person who performed the annual on my 7 reinstalled a pair of the plug leads to the LSE on top reversed. This was the first time I’d outsourced my annual.
Needless to say it ran like a chaff cutter when doing the run up. It ran tho even on two cyls and one ignition.
Interestingly I didn’t suspect the obvious and ordered myself a new set of coils:rolleyes:
When that didn’t fix it I looked a bit closer and worked it out.
I’d be curious as to how poor the run up here was on the offending ignition.
I assume that the good ignition was the one that came unplugged here leaving him a few cyls short?
 
Peeling this onion back layer by layer would lead one to believe the true root cause was a lack of design for maintainability.

It's a challenge to mount equipment in a manner which allows it to be accessible for maintenance, but not nearly as great a challenge as working on equipment which has been installed with disregard to its accessibility.

There's a lesson here for those of us who are builders...
 
I think there’s plenty here to digest and discussed in the interests of safety.
Dual crank trigger has also been debated here at length.
IMHO that dual PCB crank trigger and unprotected leads is a very poor design with an obvious catastrophic failure mode..
We had a terrible accident here from a broken alternator belt on takeoff.
 
Shrink tube wire lead numbers

Jeg’s, Summitt, sell shrink wrap lead number kits, did all my pmags, even put them on towers.

Krhea 2022 donation

RV7
 
Rumor had it that he had been having trouble with the engine from the get-go but decided to keep flying it :cool:
 
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A lot easier than crawling under the panel.
 
A lot easier than crawling under the panel.

A lot easier to not have an ignition system with boxes, cables and stuff scattered around. Either a standard mag or a nice six cylinder pMag fits the bill.

There should not be anything mounted to the firewall on the cabin side other than a ground block, that ground block accessed via a reinforced cutout in the bulkhead between the firewall and panel.

Carl
 
For those still building their 10's
Do not be tempted to install ANYTHING in that forward bay.
It is NOT accessible, no way no how unless you build an access panel on top.
Nothing wrong with electronic ignition but it does need to be installed properly, no different from a mag or Surefly or other means of spark delivery system.
 
I learned this the hard way, troubleshooting an issue with my CPi2 and needed to check pin seating integrity (issue turned out to be improper magnet gap between flywheel and sensor, builder error all along). Access was much more difficult than I thought it would be. Using wire solder splices, the controls unit was migrated from the infamous forward bay to a better spot under the right front seat where access is absolute once the seat is pulled.
 

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I learned this the hard way, troubleshooting an issue with my CPi2 and needed to check pin seating integrity (issue turned out to be improper magnet gap between flywheel and sensor, builder error all along). Access was much more difficult than I thought it would be. Using wire solder splices, the controls unit was migrated from the infamous forward bay to a better spot under the right front seat where access is absolute once the seat is pulled.

That's an interesting idea. I'm hoping to use a CPI2 for one of my ignitions. Is the under-seat location the best in your opinion? Or just better based on your other installations?
 
Bill----DEFINATELY pay attention to the fuel filter and rigid tube connections, with all the electrical stuff in such close quarters.

Tom
 
Tom: those JEGS filters were the work of a previous builder I bought the unfinished kit from. They caused immediate grief in phase one (vapor lock issues with mogas) and have been replaced with flex lines and quality filters from a friend of yours named Steve ;)
 
#1 & #2 cylinders fire at the same time, same signal is driving both so that's just a mislabeling issue.

The output connector has nothing to do with spark output, those are on BNC connectors. If you pull that Dsub connector off the engine should still be running.
 
That's an interesting idea. I'm hoping to use a CPI2 for one of my ignitions. Is the under-seat location the best in your opinion? Or just better based on your other installations?

The best or just better? Well, I will admit I've only tried two locations and I'm not planning to try a third, so I'll have to go with "better."

I think FWF is too harsh an environment for the control box, and there aren't many other places to fit it in a -10. Further aft works against efforts to keep the nose relatively heavy for 4-pax and baggage days.
 
That's an interesting idea. I'm hoping to use a CPI2 for one of my ignitions. Is the under-seat location the best in your opinion? Or just better based on your other installations?
I would think the "best" location would be on the sub panel, but there are so many other remote components that also want to go in that location, it may be difficult to find the space. Second best, on the backside of the subpanel, but far more difficult to get to or another location like Bill found, under the seat.
 
FWIW:
Mine is mounted upside down under the second bay, easily accessible especially if you pull one of the Dynon screens out of the way. Lots of room and options with today's remote components.
 
A lot easier to not have an ignition system with boxes, cables and stuff scattered around. Either a standard mag or a nice six cylinder pMag fits the bill...Carl

Considering that the little piston airplane market is the last bastion of the transportation segment that doesnt use a "distributed" ignition/fuel/control architecture, and we are still nowhere near the reliability of, well, EVERY OTHER VEHICLE, maybe there is another cause in this case? And puting aside the fact that Pmags do suffer from broken wires, bad connectors, shifting magnets, heat damaged electronics, etc, etc, could it simply be that this RV-10 was poorly integrated and maintained? After all, a poorly maintained Pmag will also have the connector fall off and it too will shut down.

The pictures indicate this RV-10 was poorly planned, integrated, maintained, and operated. Such an airplane is bound to suffer failure regardless of the name on the label attached to the ignition system. There are plenty of lessons to learn here, but "stick with magneto's" is not one of them.
 
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Agree with Toolbuilder. While the builder here went with fancy Skybolt cowl fasteners in one area, it's clear from the pics that this was far from a clean installation with manifest attention to detail. Sometimes mechanical things run the way they look - if they show meticulous care in installation and even in cosmetics, they seem to be more reliable - for reasons best described as magic.
 
FWIW:
Mine is mounted upside down under the second bay, easily accessible especially if you pull one of the Dynon screens out of the way. Lots of room and options with today's remote components.

Not always an option. My three screen Advanced Flight panel had no room on the sub-panel for a single thing more. The back side of the sub panel is, IMO, exactly what we are trying to avoid - physically awkward and painful access that involves way too much RV-yoga.
 
I think we all learn a few lessons after the first build and probably the number one thing is to make access to items which may need inspection or maintenance as easy as possible once the aircraft is completed.

Mounting of said components for good access or providing removable covers for that access with be your friend in the future.

It may look nice and tidy before you put the top front skin on but access after that will be from below, on you back, with a bunch of other stuff in the way- never any fun.

Also as you age, your flexibility and girth may change too...

Stuff that is hard to access may have a tendency to be inspected less.
 
Finding the "best" location for all the remote components is a challenge. DSub connectors make those small boxes twice as big. And then some small boxes have DSub connectors on 2 sides so the panel space needed is 3x the size of the box. Then all the boxes are different sizes with different hole pattern making stacking a challenge. And then DSubs with screw ends rather than thumb screws are another challenge. All that said, mounting remote components is so much easier than back in the day when everything was so so long they required cutouts in the subpanel.

Dynon, on the certified side, has some trays that fit behind the EFIS. A concept that could be adapted to any brand EFIS and easy enough to roll your own. It adds to the options in the quest to find the "best" location for everything.
universal-mounting-angle-01.jpg
universal-mounting-tray-01.jpg
 
Finding the "best" location for all the remote components is a challenge. DSub connectors make those small boxes twice as big. And then some small boxes have DSub connectors on 2 sides so the panel space needed is 3x the size of the box. Then all the boxes are different sizes with different hole pattern making stacking a challenge. And then DSubs with screw ends rather than thumb screws are another challenge. All that said, mounting remote components is so much easier than back in the day when everything was so so long they required cutouts in the subpanel.

Dynon, on the certified side, has some trays that fit behind the EFIS. A concept that could be adapted to any brand EFIS and easy enough to roll your own. It adds to the options in the quest to find the "best" location for everything.
universal-mounting-angle-01.jpg
universal-mounting-tray-01.jpg

Only $95 for the tray and $39 for the stacking kit. Not bad at all! Wish I knew about this when I was building.
 
Finding the "best" location for all the remote components is a challenge. DSub connectors make those small boxes twice as big. And then some small boxes have DSub connectors on 2 sides so the panel space needed is 3x the size of the box. Then all the boxes are different sizes with different hole pattern making stacking a challenge. And then DSubs with screw ends rather than thumb screws are another challenge. All that said, mounting remote components is so much easier than back in the day when everything was so so long they required cutouts in the subpanel.

Dynon, on the certified side, has some trays that fit behind the EFIS. A concept that could be adapted to any brand EFIS and easy enough to roll your own. It adds to the options in the quest to find the "best" location for everything.
universal-mounting-angle-01.jpg
universal-mounting-tray-01.jpg

I find it curious to see the ADHRS module included in this arrangement. Surely there's a lot of magnetively-attractive metal in that stack. Seems like it would impact mag heading sensing.
 
I find it curious to see the ADHRS module included in this arrangement. Surely there's a lot of magnetively-attractive metal in that stack. Seems like it would impact mag heading sensing.

I wondered that too. They are probably mandating the remote magnetometer in this application.
 
I like that tray concept. Looks like it would be fairly easy to build one. Another interesting option is one I have seen others do--install a horizontal tray at the base of the panel, supported between the panel and the middle bulkhead, and hinged so it swings downward. This only gives you one level though, where the tray concept allows stacking.
 
I also find it curious that it is shown with a single ADHARS. I believe they are certified with a single screen and a single ADHARS with a D10A as a backup. It seems most of our panels these days have dual screens (some with 3) and dual ADHARS and some sort of backup.
 
I like that tray concept. Looks like it would be fairly easy to build one. Another interesting option is one I have seen others do--install a horizontal tray at the base of the panel, supported between the panel and the middle bulkhead, and hinged so it swings downward. This only gives you one level though, where the tray concept allows stacking.

I used aluminum angle on the sub-panel to vertically mount several stacked items. In my case, the connections are at the bottom of the devices, but other orientations would work too.
 
The sub panel fills up quickly of you are doing a lot of remote stuff. There isn't room here for an ignition ECU box.
 

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Lots of room

Bridge a couple of angles from the panel to the first bulkhead and mount your accessories under it or on it. As many have done, you can go the extra step and make it a hinged drop down panel for even easier maintenance access.
Not everything needs to hang on the bulkhead panel. The ECU box does not need maintenance, at least mine doesn't and all of the connectors are visible and easily accessible.
 
Point taken.

The original mounting scheme I devised for my ECU box was attachment to two pieces of angle stock bridging between the left and center longitudinal ribs that support the sub-panel and panel. It looked great tucked away up there above the rudder cross-tubes. Turns out that access after original installation was a nightmare and the whole reason it's now under the seat pan.

If you have a way to make it work, go for it. My experience may have been tainted by not thinking the problem out well enough, but it was not a pleasant one. The folks who are saying that the sub panel to firewall zone is not a good place to locate things you ever want to see or touch again are in alignment with my own experience. Lying on your back in the foot well of an RV-10 is only slightly less miserable than doing so in an RV-6A. I have both tee shirts.
 
Am I the only one that thinks this thread has had a major bit of drift??

And a huge amount of speculation based on a news report - not even an NTSB preliminary…..

DR can unlock it if I have been unfair.
 
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