Factory Info: Parts with Laser Cut Holes and Potential for Cracks

[MIKE JG]

Hard to say. If Vans has to eat the entire cost of this cluster$%&# that might mean the end of the company IMO. I think we're gonna see class action lawsuits out of this and who knows what else. We're looking at years to resolve this issue based just on the size of the problem. I mean how do you even begin to fix all of these QB kits???

So.... how badly do you want to build an RV?? Kinda hard to continue building if the company ceases to exist.

Folks on here screaming (behind anonymous screen names BTW) about how they're not paying a dime to fix this should consider the bigger picture IMO. Just my .02

I'd rather pay a little more to finish the project than to see the whole thing burn to the ground. And yeah, if I had paid for an RV-14 kit advertised as "pre-punched" I'd expect pre-punched parts. So at a minimum, Vans should make that right at zero cost to those builders.

Community is key here IMO. Builders can and should reach out for help, especially if you have to disassemble and replace. I'm pretty good with a rivet gun and bucking bar these days and I can drill out rivets with the best of them. I'm in NE Ohio and can't build on until I get new parts so feel free to reach out to me for assistance if you are in the area and need help with the extra work.

[swift12]

. How can you trust a company prepared to say this and not follow through. On a legal note….punched parts not provided…..written promises made…..parts unfit for purpose no matter what an engineer says….remember the very structures that are holding your aircraft together are compromised. What SB’s will come out in the future…what will your lemon be worth….none of you would want to touch one of these LCP aircraft with a ten foot barge pole…would you?.if LCP parts are ok then why change back to punched….(because they are sub standard) acceptable to use….not a chance…..then you have to pay again to make it right. Like me there will be so many unhappy customers out there not sing this companies praises and in fact quite the opposite depending on how we are treated. As customers they do not value us at all. If my faulty parts are replaced I’ll slowly start to fall in love with the project again….if I have to pay again to make my aircraft 100% right as it should be and what I have paid for already I’m sure the bad taste and disdain will linger far past finishing the project leaving me with a project that should have been one of the greatest building achievements in my life nothing more than a stressful chore. For me this whole experience of building my own aircraft was brilliant…..now it’s turning into a disaster and I’m supposed to be left with a half priced LCP lemon or pay again and wait god knows how long to make it right. It’s going to be hard to fall in love with this project again if I have to go down this path.

[txnbuilder]

Like Brian, I have some completed assemblies (flaps and elevators) where most parts are in the 'red' category, except the skins and some relatively cheap brackets.

When I filled out the survey I suggested defining a minimum threshold of 'red' parts in an assembly to declare it 'beyond saving'.

The 'list' has notes saying Van's will replace Aileron and Flap components if they are damaged during rework, but c'mon, drill out every rivet to basically save the skin, six brackets and 2 nut plates, likely mangling the skin in the process and getting a 'free' replacement anyway?

As others have said, many of these empennage and control surface assemblies have proseal in the trailing edges, foam ribs, etc. and if the surfaces were properly prepared, are not coming apart without some cosmetic damage to the thin skins.

[swift12]

Originally Posted by MIKE JG

Hard to say. If Vans has to eat the entire cost of this cluster$%&# that might mean the end of the company IMO. I think we're gonna see class action lawsuits out of this and who knows what else. We're looking at years to resolve this issue based just on the size of the problem. I mean how do you even begin to fix all of these QB kits???

So.... how badly do you want to build an RV?? Kinda hard to continue building if the company ceases to exist.

Folks on here screaming (behind anonymous screen names BTW) about how they're not paying a dime to fix this should consider the bigger picture IMO. Just my .02

I'd rather pay a little more to finish the project then to see the whole thing burn to the ground. And yeah, if I had paid for an RV-14 kit advertised as "pre-punched" I'd expect pre-punched parts. So at a minimum, Vans should make that right at zero cost to those builders.

Community is key here IMO. Builders can and should reach out for help, especially if you have to disassemble and replace. I'm pretty good with a rivet gun and bucking bar these days and I can drill out rivets with the best of them. I'm in NE Ohio and can't build on until I get new parts so feel free to reach out to me for assistance if you are in the area and need help with the extra work.

Glenn Evans. Palmerston North New Zealand. A320 Captain. To add my name and not just my VAF non de plume. And why should I pay again for faulty parts?

[N8DAV8R]

Originally Posted by MIKE JG

Community is key here IMO. Builders can and should reach out for help, especially if you have to disassemble and replace. I'm pretty good with a rivet gun and bucking bar these days and I can drill out rivets with the best of them.

This is an important point. I only built the 'easy' RV, but picked up some skills along the way and would like to stay in practice for the next build. I actually prefer building over flying so I miss it now that I'm 'done'. I would be glad to lend an extra set of hands to anyone working through the setback in the central California area.

[rocketman1988]

Originally Posted by swift12

. How can you trust a company prepared to say this and not follow through. On a legal note….punched parts not provided…..written promises made…..parts unfit for purpose no matter what an engineer says….remember the very structures that are holding your aircraft together are compromised. What SB’s will come out in the future…what will your lemon be worth….none of you would want to touch one of these LCP aircraft with a ten foot barge pole…would you?.if LCP parts are ok then why change back to punched….(because they are sub standard) acceptable to use….not a chance…..then you have to pay again to make it right. Like me there will be so many unhappy customers out there not sing this companies praises and in fact quite the opposite depending on how we are treated. As customers they do not value us at all. If my faulty parts are replaced I’ll slowly start to fall in love with the project again….if I have to pay again to make my aircraft 100% right as it should be and what I have paid for already I’m sure the bad taste and disdain will linger far past finishing the project leaving me with a project that should have been one of the greatest building achievements in my life nothing more than a stressful chore. For me this whole experience of building my own aircraft was brilliant…..now it’s turning into a disaster and I’m supposed to be left with a half priced LCP lemon or pay again and wait god knows how long to make it right. It’s going to be hard to fall in love with this project again if I have to go down this path.

Oh, there is SO much in there I should respond to...but won't.

I will leave it at this: It sounds as if you have made you decision; put your kit up for sale, and maybe seek another vendor...but can you trust those engineers?

[SwissVolts]

Originally Posted by rocketman1988

That’s your call, however, you already put your “blind trust” in the engineers when you ordered the kit.

They data is out the solution is forming. It is now up to YOU, the builder, to determine your path.

Reading some of these comments, I would expect some immediate partial built kit sales, which will get snapped up by others in th queue. Others will soldier on.

In the end, it is an individual decision; make your decision and move forward, one way or the other.

I placed my blind trust in a company with 50 years of experience and a happy community around it. Everything that happened with the LCP parts is not my fault! Why should I pay it?

I suppose there is also the right to return an order, right? Especially if I haven't received it yet and Van's is not fulfilling what it promised...

Maybe there are a lot of rich people around here, but that's not my case. This project was going to be the project of my life! A great effort and a large part of my savings invested!

If the company has to close, I will be very sorry, but I will not be the one to pay for it to survive. They haven't given me anything!

[Paul Thomas]

Originally Posted by Paul Thomas

I have the same issue and when I go back to the page, nothing is saved. I emailed Greg.

The list of part for an RV7 fuselage was scant. The good news is that it appears that the part I need are not expensive. It may be easier to forego the process and just order replacements.

It doesn't work when I do it from using Safari on my Mac; it works when using Chrome on my Surface Pro.

I hope it helps others.

[bertschb]

One of the interesting outcomes from this is the acceptance by Vans of cracks in dimpled holes. As a new builder, I had planned to spend hundreds of hours meticulously deburring each and every hole to avoid cracks when dimpling. For 50 years builders were told to avoid cracks at all cost.

Since the majority of laser cut parts have now been deemed acceptable for use by Vans, knowing a good portion of the holes in these parts will have cracks after dimpling, I will not be fretting over deburring the holes. I'll still do it. I just won't be trying to make each hole perfect since it apparently doesn't really matter.

[mstrauss]

Originally Posted by MIKE JG

Community is key here IMO. Builders can and should reach out for help, especially if you have to disassemble and replace. I'm pretty good with a rivet gun and bucking bar these days and I can drill out rivets with the best of them. I'm in NE Ohio and can't build on until I get new parts so feel free to reach out to me for assistance if you are in the area and need help with the extra work.

I think you are 100% right on this part, and appreciate your offer. I think I must be going through the five stages of loss – denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. I'm somewhere between anger and acceptance. As I look over my 90% completed Emp, I'm starting to think through how I should disassemble some of the structures. The first one I started seriously looking at is the rear fuselage, and how to get the bulkheads out. We should start a thread or two for procedures and options on disassembly and reassembly. Would be great if Vans could contribute. In a perfect world, that's what a team would do.