Avionics Upgrade advice

[Jesse23]

Originally Posted by Walt

650xi/750xi: Never once heard a custom complain about screens being to large...

Agreed. Get the biggest badass Garmin you can afford. You won’t be sorry. I have 2 G3X’s, GTN 750 (wish I had had the xi), G5, and 507 AP head. Not having to scroll to see the contents of a screen is priceless with the GTN 750.

[edhunter]

Just for the heck of it, give Advanced a call and have them work you up a panel price. Their ACM is a game changer if you have to rewire a bunch of stuff. Dual AFS5600, IFD540, remote com2, transponder and audio panel, backup AV30, dynon autopilot. I don't see how Garmin's tech support / customer service could top AFS.... those guys are awesome.

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

Originally Posted by BuddyHolly

I'm modernizing my 2014 RV 10 panel, for sure getting rid of my old Chelton EFIS screens and my unusable standby instruments. Just received estimates for 2 new Garmin G3x screens, G5, & associated hookups.

Also gotten estimates for new autopilot to smoothly interface with the panels.

Might also get the Garmin 750xi & engine display kit.

Any major advice in this decision? I plan to do lots of traveling across the country and want to be as worry-free as possible. Thanks

I've got 600+ hours on dual screen G3X with GTN650. Here's my infinite wisdom -- or something like that.

I run both G3X screens in split mode: engine instruments on the outside, flight instrument in the middle of the screen, and "MFD" tpwards the center of the airplane. This means that in the left seat, I essentially have two MFD screens. There's no point in running the right side screen full size, because most of the information is in the middle of the screen, and running the display full screen only moves the useful information farther away.

The parameter bars above the screens are real handy for all kinds of flight data! The Garmin ads show lots of frequencies and such up there, but that's suboptimal on two counts: dedicated knobs are faster; and too many frequencies etc reduce the number of parameter you can show.

GTN650 or 750? I'd go for the 750 in a heartbeat. It gives you another display screen; it makes flight plan editing easier; and it gives you ILS frequency displays, along with the Morse ID and the database ID without taking up any of the parameter bar. Yes, you can get by with just a 650, and I've done it for years, but if an upgrade was feasible in my plane...

Engine display? Not needed. On the G3X, all the engine information comes up just by touching the engine display column, and summary information is plenty good. Worse, a dedicated engine display will just move the right side MFD farther away.

The G5 doubles as a standby AHARS, a nice feature.

I would consider somehow mounting an aera 660 or some other Garmin device on the panel, or easily mounted. That can be a standby GPS in case of total electrical failure, or alternator failure when you need to load shed. Don't know how feasible this is, though.

The Garmin autopilot is nice. And you can get a yaw damper that the back seaters will appreciate.

I'd offer you a ride to check things out, but the shop still hasn't written up an estimate for Smokey, and there's a whole continent between the two of us.

I've got lots more ideas to share if you're interested.

Be well!

Ed

[BobTurner]

Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer

GTN650 or 750? I'd go for the 750 in a heartbeat.
Ed

Only issue is that, after seeing the price tag , you might not have a heartbeat. -

[KeithO]

Dont know the means of any of the posters in this thread but it is feasible to add 50% to 100% to the cost of building your airplane simply through the choice of what is in the panel. Many such airplanes have better avionics capability than half of the certified air transport airplanes actively being operated while at the same time having zero means to deice control surfaces or wing or potentially even defrost the windshield.

People earn their money and get to choose how they want to spend it and many building RVs are precisely the people flying the air transports in the first place.

I have a non vans 2 seater with a current VFR panel and my wife is doing her PPL. After she gets her basic ticket she will be doing her instrument rating and then commercial and working her way to the required 1500 hour mark that it takes to be hired into most "serious" aviation jobs. We can probably update the VFR panel to an IFR capable one for $10k + install. Of course we are on the more cash strapped side of the equation... Garmin is to me viewed in a similar way that many Americans view Porsche, Audi and other European cars. Nice to get as a lease vehicle and drive using the company credit card and then when its 2-3 years old and the free servicing is over, turn it in as soon as possible before one actually has to pay full price for the dealer service charges.

Im in the category that buys them used when the resale value has taken a 75% hit and no one will touch them and then do all the repairs myself, sometimes buying the german language repair manual to facilitate that.

For me Grand Rapids seems to be the value point, they have an extensive system and their products seem to play nice with most others and one does not feel nickeled and dimed to death (death by a thousand cuts). If the cost is not a big factor then I'm sure one can make several other choices, including going certified.

[BobTurner]

Originally Posted by KeithO

For me Grand Rapids seems to be the value point, they have an extensive system and their products seem to play nice with most others and one does not feel nickeled and dimed to death (death by a thousand cuts). If the cost is not a big factor then I'm sure one can make several other choices, including going certified.

+1. You aren’t the only one with this point of view.
I was thinking, earlier today, that even with my non-Garmin (except for a 420W) panel, I can guide the plane down the runway, rotate, then push some buttons and/or knobs. Make a few adjustments to the throttle/prop/mixture, then do nothing but talk on the radio, and push buttons until it was time to flare for landing. Quite some time ago I read an article by, iirc, airline pilot Barry Schiff. He was in charge of simulator training at his airline, and he noticed a stark difference between older and newer pilots. When he threw a problem at the old guys, they grabbed the yoke, turned off all the automation, and hand flew. Then they turned the automation back on, one thing at a time, looking for the issue. When he threw the same problem at the younger guys, the first thing they did was to reach for the keyboard and start typing. I wonder, am I still a pilot? Or, an automaton?

[KatanaPilot]

Originally Posted by BobTurner

Quite some time ago I read an article by, iirc, airline pilot Barry Schiff. He was in charge of simulator training at his airline, and he noticed a stark difference between older and newer pilots. When he threw a problem at the old guys, they grabbed the yoke, turned off all the automation, and hand flew. Then they turned the automation back on, one thing at a time, looking for the issue. When he threw the same problem at the younger guys, the first thing they did was to reach for the keyboard and start typing. I wonder, am I still a pilot? Or, an automaton?

Early in my military/airline career - the automation was either non-existent, unreliable or was often the source of the problem. So kicking it off might be one of the first steps. Later on, the digital or digital/analog autopilots were much more reliable and intuitive - so we were taught that "automation can be your friend". Especially so when you become the pilot flying, communicating with ATC, company, flight attendants and passengers during a non-normal when the other pilot is handling the non-normal checklist. The training philosophy during non-normal events changed quite a bit over the 40 years I was in the military and airlines. Early on, the Captain always took control of the airplane and hand flew. They would bark out orders to the rest of the crew. Later on, that changed to transfer control (if needed) to the type-rated First Officer, provide direction as needed and "manage" the situation from the left seat. This was not done in all cases, but often led to a better, less hectic flight deck during a non-normal.

Back to the OP - I had a 650 in our RV-7A and now a 750xi in the RV-10. I love the bigger screen, easier data entry and additional capabilities of the 750. If you can afford it and the panel space, I highly recommend it. The argument becomes less compelling if/when Garmin gets approval for GDU to GTN flight plan/approach transfer.