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Slipping a 9

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danny

Well Known Member
So I was high on final, full flaps. I decided to slip and went full right rudder and whatever aileron to stay lined up on the centerline. My problem is it didn't make an appreciable difference in my descent rate or at least not what I expected. So could it be that with a nose up attitude and full flaps I'm taking wind from my tail making it less effective in a slip?
I haven't tried it with less flaps. Anybody care to share their experiences?
Thanks
danny
 
So I was high on final, full flaps. I decided to slip and went full right rudder and whatever aileron to stay lined up on the centerline. My problem is it didn't make an appreciable difference in my descent rate or at least not what I expected. So could it be that with a nose up attitude and full flaps I'm taking wind from my tail making it less effective in a slip?
I haven't tried it with less flaps. Anybody care to share their experiences?
Thanks
danny

Slipping a -9 with full flaps works just fine. I feel that less than full flaps will not produce as much drag as you are getting at full flaps and a slip. Where was the wind coming from? Best effectiveness comes by putting the wind down into the wind and full rudder. You can also try slipping at lower than normal airspeed, it really works well, just don’t lose directional control.
 
I've also found that slips in my RV-9A don't help all that much.

One topic I've never read about is what speed gives the steepest descent angle in a slip. Since the -9A has a benign stall, with practice, you could slip at a relatively low speed if that turns out to give the steepest descent angle. Don't know.

Constant speed prop helps a lot in deceleration...

Ed
 
Full flaps, my -9 slips great. Comes down like a rock so long as I use full rudder as well. Partial rudder seems to reduce sink rate significantly.

Do note, however, that your airspeed may not read real accurately in a slip so practice at altitude until you get a feel for it.
 
Slip and Slide

Seems like some airplanes, especially low wing types don’t come down much steeper in a slip if you let the speed get high. You may need to make a conscious effort to watch the speed and be ready to raise the nose higher than you’d think necessary. As others have said, practice at least two or three misteaks high. Try flying it all the way to the stall when it’s all cross controlled and see what happens. Most (MOST!) airplanes (Citabrias, Decathlons, all the 1xx series Cessna singles, Cherokees in all their variants, high wing Pipers, Taylorcraft, Champs, etc. stall pretty benign in a slip.) Skids are much different! Notably, our RV-6 will buffet mightily and often break over the top if it’s flown to a standstill in a slip. The -9 is reputed to be very docile so my hipshot is that you’ll just run out of rudder or aileron, then elevator and it will maybe buffet and descend very steeply without departing controlled flight. Please note that I’m not suggesting you do this in the pattern but you need to know what happens in the worst case, and on your way to the worst case before you fly slips in the pattern. As always, YMMV.
 
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No problem with slips here although I can see how a slip would be more pronounced with a more conventional wing. Forward slips are more effective with flaps in my experience, but either way that big rudder makes it a pretty effective maneuver for me.
 
Where was the wind coming from? Best effectiveness comes by putting the wind down into the wind and full rudder.

Wind/slip direction has no effect on the slip descent rate or angle, it just affects alignment. I see the idea passed around on occasion that slipping into the wind will make you come down faster or steeper which it won't.
 
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Full flaps, my -9 slips great. Comes down like a rock so long as I use full rudder as well. Partial rudder seems to reduce sink rate significantly.

Do note, however, that your airspeed may not read real accurately in a slip so practice at altitude until you get a feel for it.

Ditto with my 9A
 
Yes it's true that for RVs in general slips don't alter the descent nearly as much as some other draggier and aerobatic types with larger control surfaces. RVs are rudder limited and don't have a lot of drag to exploit.
 
My 9A slipped very well. Full flaps, nose high and FULL rudder for a short field landing. Just before landing, smoothly relax the rudder and push forward on the stick to arrest the descent rate. Creepy feeling pushing forward on the stick to flare, but that's the way it works.

The 9 wing is not like the other RVs. Practice at altitude.
 
A few things

" ... whatever aileron to stay lined up on the centerline" If you mean that you kept the longitudinal axis aligned with the centerline, you were in a side slip. What you really want is a forward slip, with the airplane tracking the centerline, but the nose of the airplane offset - in this case, with full right rudder, to the right.

" ... with a nose up attitude ...." The nose should not really be up. Be careful with this, if you are sloppy with the rudder, coming out of the slip, you could induce some skid - a dangerous thing close to the ground.

Recommend you seek instruction.

All the best,

Merrill
 
" ... whatever aileron to stay lined up on the centerline" If you mean that you kept the longitudinal axis aligned with the centerline, you were in a side slip. What you really want is a forward slip, with the airplane tracking the centerline, but the nose of the airplane offset - in this case, with full right rudder, to the right.

" ... with a nose up attitude ...." The nose should not really be up. Be careful with this, if you are sloppy with the rudder, coming out of the slip, you could induce some skid - a dangerous thing close to the ground.

Recommend you seek instruction.

All the best,

Merrill

I never understood why this side vs forward slip stuff matters at all. If you're flying down final and want to slip to lose altitude, nobody asks themselves, "now should this be a side slip or forward slip?" Same for aligning the airplane in a x-wind.

I did once take a CFI friend up in my Cub and let him fly and land. There was no x-wind at all, but he set up a final approach displaced well to the right of the runway and did a "side slip" to the left, flying an angled flight path toward the runway, but trying to align the airplane with the runway on final. Very strange. I've never witnessed another pilot perform such a slip down final, so this forward vs side slip stuff is generally just pilot training pedantry.
 
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If I had to put a name to it...I distinguish "side slip" from "forward slip" based on why I'm slipping and where my nose is pointed. If I'm just trying to lose altitude, I don't care as long as the plane is tracking the runway ("forward" slip). If there's a crosswind, well...my transition trainer told me that approach to landing is where you may well just have to abandon coordinated flight and land with whatever aileron is needed to counteract the crosswind and as much rudder as needed to keep the nose pointed down the runway. Many instructors call that a "side slip". I just call it "landing the airplane".
 
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works

Yesterdays flight to Deer Valley in PHX was just what you asked about. Turning base with full flaps showed white over white. Full rudder slip.... count to 6... and white over red. Did it again on the return to Prescott. This time, a right slip. It takes a large amount of pressure with the leg muscles. My speeds are around 75-80 indicated. 9A with O-320....
Cheers
 
I know how to slip.......

Thanks for all the great lessons and advice but what I was hoping for was to hear other experiences. I originally said full right rudder...I do this if I can (and wind permitting) to keep the pitot into the wind to get an accurate airspeed since I'm usually pretty slow. The nose up is to maintain my airspeed and the aileron whatever it takes to make the runway....not to go straight. Do it sink? Sure but I guess I was expecting more. I had a no-flap Luscombe for a long time and I could put it sideways and sink like a rock! My 9 is no rock unless I throw unwanted speed into the mix that I'll have to bleed off. I'm just wondering if I'm expecting too much and what others are experiencing...helps if you have other tailwheel time to compare it to.
Hope I'm not coming off like an arse.....sorry if I am.
danny
 
Thanks for all the great lessons and advice but what I was hoping for was to hear other experiences. I originally said full right rudder...I do this if I can (and wind permitting) to keep the pitot into the wind to get an accurate airspeed since I'm usually pretty slow. The nose up is to maintain my airspeed and the aileron whatever it takes to make the runway....not to go straight. Do it sink? Sure but I guess I was expecting more. I had a no-flap Luscombe for a long time and I could put it sideways and sink like a rock! My 9 is no rock unless I throw unwanted speed into the mix that I'll have to bleed off. I'm just wondering if I'm expecting too much and what others are experiencing...helps if you have other tailwheel time to compare it to.
Hope I'm not coming off like an arse.....sorry if I am.
danny

It sounds like maybe you're just getting used to a new airframe. It is all good. I have more than a few hours in an RV9, and often use a slip. In fact, it is a bit a part of my program borrowed from flying gliders, boards out on downwind, don't ever fly away from a landable condition...
 
Slipping a cessna 170

Someone referenced Cessna 1xx. With an instructor on final with full flaps and high I initiated a slip. Instructor yelled and he never did that. We went to altitude and he said now do that. Set up a landing with full flaps and initiated a slip. Didn’t get much rudder or aileron and we spun right now! It was fun at altitude but without him on the real final that day I wouldn’t be telling this. I have heard other Cessna planes will do the same thing.
 
Someone referenced Cessna 1xx. With an instructor on final with full flaps and high I initiated a slip. Instructor yelled and he never did that. We went to altitude and he said now do that. Set up a landing with full flaps and initiated a slip. Didn’t get much rudder or aileron and we spun right now! It was fun at altitude but without him on the real final that day I wouldn’t be telling this. I have heard other Cessna planes will do the same thing.

I don't get that. I have agree with Bob.
 
Someone referenced Cessna 1xx. With an instructor on final with full flaps and high I initiated a slip. Instructor yelled and he never did that. We went to altitude and he said now do that. Set up a landing with full flaps and initiated a slip. Didn’t get much rudder or aileron and we spun right now! It was fun at altitude but without him on the real final that day I wouldn’t be telling this. I have heard other Cessna planes will do the same thing.

Hum. General characteristics of most airplanes:
Slips are relatively benign. Even if you are nibbling on a stall in a slip, the plane will break "over the top" towards wings level allowing even low skilled pilots time to relax rudder and back pressure and the rotation will stop with recovery to near level flight attitude. A non event.

Conversely, skidding an airplane around the corner to final is inherently very dangerous. It is an insidious danger because even the best of pilots can get cross controlled without realizing it if the right circumstances prevail.

Both condition involve crossed controls. The slip is a normal and useful maneuver. The skid at low altitude fills the pages of tragic NTSB reports.

ron
 
If I had to put a name to it...I distinguish "side slip" from "forward slip" based on why I'm slipping and where my nose is pointed. If I'm just trying to lose altitude, I don't care as long as the plane is tracking the runway ("forward" slip). If there's a crosswind, well...my transition trainer told me that approach to landing is where you may well just have to abandon coordinated flight and land with whatever aileron is needed to counteract the crosswind and as much rudder as needed to keep the nose pointed down the runway. Many instructors call that a "side slip". I just call it "landing the airplane".

Conventional naming of slips is opposite of your terminology. Not that it matters because your naming is more intuitive than the old-school definition of each type of slip. I called them the same way for years. There is an article put out by AOPA about this and mentions the fact the terminology is not important. However, Merrill above got the terminology right. Bottom line is it really doesn't matter what we call them because they are the same maneuver. This same maneuver can produce either airplane traveling along it's centerline axis as in a crosswind landing (traditional name is side slip) or aircraft traveling sideways track with respect to the aircraft centerline axis (traditional name is forward slip). Same cross-controls, same effect, only difference being nose position relative to ground track.

One thing to note when transitioning from an approach-steepening forward slip into a nose-straight landing is that if you dump the nose during the transition you can find yourself floating due to the gain in airspeed associated with unloading the wing. That can undermine one of the main purposes of a forward slip - a short landing. If you think about it when you go from a forward slip back to coordinated flight you are in a better place to not need to reduce your pitch compared to the preceding crossed control condition. Sometimes this pitch reduction tendency is more pronounced when landing over an obstacle in a steep approach, especially if the slip isn't taken all the way down to just above the ground. So if you find yourself floating after "slipping it in" try to resist unloading the wing in the transition.
 
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The references to the C-170B, slipping hard with full flaps, tucking under is correct. I owned one for several years.

Later Cessnas had smaller rudders with less rudder authority ,and lack this characteristic.
 
Someone referenced Cessna 1xx. With an instructor on final with full flaps and high I initiated a slip. Instructor yelled and he never did that. We went to altitude and he said now do that. Set up a landing with full flaps and initiated a slip. Didn’t get much rudder or aileron and we spun right now! It was fun at altitude but without him on the real final that day I wouldn’t be telling this. I have heard other Cessna planes will do the same thing.

This is bizarre. If you spun, it's because you stalled while uncoordinated. My guess is he was demonstrating lack of coordination and stalling...slips are fine final - it's one of the first things I teach when teaching a student how to land. Were you getting the slip in while trying to turn base-to final?

Not knowing which Cessna product you were flying, I can say with absolute confidence that you have to try, hard, to spin a 172 or 152. They slip really well. Some models have an admonition in the PoH to avoid slips with full flaps, but it's because full flaps can blank some of the airflow over the stabilizer and you lose some effectiveness.

I regularly slip 152’s, 172’s, 182’s. They won’t spin if you don’t stall them.

Yeah. Unless you're uncoordinated, which you are in a slip, AND you stall, they don't spin.
 
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Yeah. Unless you're uncoordinated, which you are in a slip, AND you stall, they don't spin.

I thought that a skid was pro spin and will immediately spin at the stall (bank and yaw moment in the same direction). I also thought that a slip was anti spin and at the stall will have a yaw moment opposite of the bank and try to turn opposite the direction of bank, thereby making a traditional spin impossible or very difficult to initiate. The bank is trying to turn in one direction and the rudder is trying to turn in the opposite direction, somewhat neutralizing the spinning tendency. Makes complete sense, as the set up necessary to stop a spin, after releasing the elevator, is opposite rudder. It doesn't make sense that with ail and rudder in opposite directions could on one hand start a spin, yet on the other hand stop a spin.

Please school me if I have this wrong.

Larry
 
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I thought that a skid was pro spin and will immediately spin at the stall (bank and yaw moment in the same direction). I also thought that a slip was anti spin and at the stall will have a yaw moment opposite of the bank and try to turn opposite the direction of bank, thereby making a traditional spin impossible or very difficult to initiate. Makes complete sense, as the set up necessary to stop a spin, after releasing the elevator, is opposite rudder. It doesn't make sense that with ail and rudder in opposite directions could on one hand start a spin, yet on the other hand stop a spin.

Please school me if I have this wrong.

Larry

My understanding too....every time I turn base-to-final I hear my CFI's mantra..."SLIP, NOT SKID". One of the things that was drilled into my 17 year-old brain and stayed there over all these years.
 
I thought that a skid was pro spin and will immediately spin at the stall (bank and yaw moment in the same direction). I also thought that a slip was anti spin and at the stall will have a yaw moment opposite of the bank and try to turn opposite the direction of bank, thereby making a traditional spin impossible or very difficult to initiate. The bank is trying to turn in one direction and the rudder is trying to turn in the opposite direction, somewhat neutralizing the spinning tendency. Makes complete sense, as the set up necessary to stop a spin, after releasing the elevator, is opposite rudder. It doesn't make sense that with ail and rudder in opposite directions could on one hand start a spin, yet on the other hand stop a spin.

Please school me if I have this wrong.

Larry


I don't think you have this wrong in terms of behavior, but either one is still an uncoordinated state that can result in a spin if you also stall while doing it.

The FAA has an excellent AC on spin awareness training that everyone oughta read:
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_61-67c.pdf

It's easier to spin in one direction or another, depending on the airplane and how you want to enter the spin, but it's a lack of coordination combined with a stall that actually causes it. Slip or skid is merely the configuration you happen to be in when it happens.

  • If you do not stall, you will not spin.
  • If you stay coordinated, you will not spin.
 
I don't think you have this wrong in terms of behavior, but either one is still an uncoordinated state that can result in a spin if you also stall while doing it.

The FAA has an excellent AC on spin awareness training that everyone oughta read:
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_61-67c.pdf

It's easier to spin in one direction or another, depending on the airplane and how you want to enter the spin, but it's a lack of coordination combined with a stall that actually causes it. Slip or skid is merely the configuration you happen to be in when it happens.

  • If you do not stall, you will not spin.
  • If you stay coordinated, you will not spin.

Still not sure I agree. I believe that a spin requires yawing at the stall. In a skid, there is definitely yaw in the direction of turn/bank. In a slip, there is no yaw unless you over do the rudder relative to the aileron. In a slip, you are tracking straight even though the nose is not pointed there (there is no turning or yawing). Further, if not yawing, the high wing should stall first, dropping that wing and leveling things out (i.e. self correcting). If you leave the rudder in when this happens, then yes, the wing will keep dropping and when it goes below level the other way, you are now in a skid in that direction and a spin will occur.

So, it is generally safe and self-correcting, assuming the pilot knows to get off the rudder as it corrects. I have been reading the Emergency Maneuvers book (very good BTW) and remember reading about this.

Larry
 
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Still not sure I agree. I believe that a spin requires yawing at the stall. In a skid, there is definitely yaw in the direction of turn/bank. In a slip, there is no yaw unless you over do the rudder relative to the aileron. In a slip, you are tracking straight even though the nose is not pointed there (there is no turning or yawing). Further, if not yawing, the high wing should stall first, dropping that wing and leveling things out (i.e. self correcting). If you leave the rudder in when this happens, then yes, the wing will keep dropping and when it goes below level the other way, you are now in a skid in that direction and a spin will occur.

So, it is generally safe and self-correcting, assuming the pilot knows to get off the rudder as it corrects. I have been reading the Emergency Maneuvers book (very good BTW) and remember reading about this.

Larry

We should not generalize here. Each aircraft type behaves differently. It's clear that to many pilots, the behavior of THEIR OWN AIRPLANE in these regimes is unknown to them. It behooves pilots to obtain sufficient training to eliminate these blind spots. It's really such an easy thing to gain some minimal competence with. Many airplanes will spin out of a slip, especially if the stall is accelerated as during a turn. A T-6 and an RV are very different, as lot of airplanes are. In some airplanes if you don't accelerate the stall, you can end up with full aft stick, full rudder, and full aileron and just sorta bob along without stall/spinning. RVs I've flown were that way. Lots of others too, but NO general assumptions should be made about any aircraft type without actually seeing how that airplane actually behaves in various configurations.
 
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works, but not like the Luscombe

I commented earlier ref. the slips in the 9A this weekend. I also have owned 2 Luscombe aircraft. Apples and Bananas. Yes, the flapless 8E and 8A would sink fast in a slip. The 9A does not.... but I never expected it to.
Just a way different airframe config. And I never went cross country at 180 mph in a Luscombe.
 
Mine slips just fine. I do it most landings as I like to stay high and make sure I can glide to airport in motor outs. Need full rudder, foot to the floor,and and get that fuselage into the wind broad side. Maybe fly with someone who knows what they are doing to teach you?

If I remember right I see 1400 fpm negative vsi
 
Mine slips just fine.... Maybe fly with someone who knows what they are doing to teach you

RVs are great at many things but some of you need to understand that RVs simply don't slip with near the same effectiveness as many antique/classic/biplane/aerobatic types. For someone to notice this doesn't mean they need someone to teach them to slip, it simply means they are comparing (accurately) to other types. YOU might seek some dual in some new types for some perspective though. :)
 
Loss of control

I see there are lots of opinions and different experiences.
Yes aircraft's are different. My plane is my plane.
Fact is that loss of control during landing has a large part of crash statistics.
If you fly your plane the same way during approach and landing and it works
well, next landing will most probably be fine.
There are circumstances when one would like to loose altitude fast, make a more steep approach. You don´t do this without training and experience.
There are many things that you can train and work out by yourself.
Side slips at 500 ft is not one of them. Yes most people survive, but some
don´t. If you are not absolute sure how to. Let a CFI show you.

Good luck
 
I thought I’d jump in here… I fly my RV-12 from a private strip 2100’ x 80’ with 30’ tall trees planted on threshold by an irate neighbor. I always use full flaps with a forward slip to scrub speed and height after safely passing over the trees. The flaps on the RV-12 don’t add much drag or change pitch attitude very much. Slip with full slaps is approved in the POH. I hold full slip right into the flare and sometimes even touch down without kicking the rudder to straighten out – main gear wheel on the forward wing will begin to scuff and straighten the plane. Works a charm. See video below...
-
https://youtu.be/CvsuBcV5IZs
 
There are circumstances when one would like to loose altitude fast, make a more steep approach. You don´t do this without training and experience.
There are many things that you can train and work out by yourself.
Side slips at 500 ft is not one of them. Yes most people survive, but some
don´t. If you are not absolute sure how to. Let a CFI show you.

Good luck

We all slide slip every time we land in a crosswind and want to align the aircraft with rhe runway centerline. We are flying the airplane sideways to maintain runway heading. That's done at an altitude down to the surface. We also learn to fly with a CFI before we solo because we need training and experience. That includes learning forward slips, where we don't fly sideways to align the axis of the aircraft with the ground track, done in order to loose altitude on approach. All during primary training. Unless something has changed.
 
We all slide slip every time we land in a crosswind and want to align the aircraft with the runway centerline. We are flying the airplane sideways to maintain runway heading. That's done at an altitude down to the surface.

Not side slip on final... we "crab" into the wind to kill drift which keeps airplane on centerline - airplane continues to fly true and straight to the relative wind (no cross controls) on final. As the airplane slows, when we begin the flare, the crab needs to increase to hold centerline, and at this point, we revert to a slip and land wing low touching down on one wheel. Some folks hold the crab and straighten the airplane with rudder at touchdown - a problem arrises if crab is kicked out too soon or too late. Too soon and the airplane drifts sideways with the crosswind loosing runway centerline and also placing large side load on the gear at touchdown. Too late and airplane lands in the crab with large side load on the gear. Best to transition from crab to slip during the flare. Takes practice...
 
I don't. I fly in a slip as soon as I turn final with a crosswind. Of course, my final is usually about 100 yards long.
 
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In the recent tail wheel training Tube videos Doug says to keep the airplane lined with the runway use rudder to line up the pilot's nose, the airplane's nose, and the far end of the runway. Use aileron to correct drift to stay on runway centerline.
 
Every pilot forum archive on earth is already excessively littered with this debate over slipping vs. crabbing on final in x-wind. No need to continue it here.
 
RV’s do not slip well, actually they are poor at it. If you think they are good at slipping then you’ve never flown anything that is actually good. Modern Cessnas and Pipers, Beechcraft etc are also lousy slippers. None of them have enough rudder. They all do have effective flaps, especially Cessnas so why bother even fooling around with slips? If you’ve misjudged your approach to the point where full flaps doesn’t do the job you might consider spending more time on your approach’s rather than side slips.

Slips were necessary in aircraft without flaps and in older aircraft that had an abundance of rudder like Cubs, Aeronca,Luscombe,Tcarts etc. You could slip them to a degree that the whole aircraft was buffeting because the inner wing was partially stalled and they could really lose altitude at slow speeds. You just had to make sure you decreased the AOA prior to coming out of the slip or you may stall.
 
I few a 7KCAB Citabria, no flaps, slipped it alot. It would slip gud. So does my RV-4. With CS prop, full flaps and a nice slip it will come down like an elevator with a broken cable.
 
RV’s do not slip well, actually they are poor at it. If you think they are good at slipping then you’ve never flown anything that is actually good. Modern Cessnas and Pipers, Beechcraft etc are also lousy slippers. None of them have enough rudder. They all do have effective flaps, especially Cessnas so why bother even fooling around with slips? If you’ve misjudged your approach to the point where full flaps doesn’t do the job you might consider spending more time on your approach’s rather than side slips.

Slips were necessary in aircraft without flaps and in older aircraft that had an abundance of rudder like Cubs, Aeronca,Luscombe,Tcarts etc. You could slip them to a degree that the whole aircraft was buffeting because the inner wing was partially stalled and they could really lose altitude at slow speeds. You just had to make sure you decreased the AOA prior to coming out of the slip or you may stall.

My ab-initio training on a 172 required slipping to adjust descent angle and airspeed on every landing without flaps. Later, flap landings were introduced. Reason: electric flaps fail and you better be comfortable with slips. It also makes flaps plus slip landings more comfortable.

This was always my preferred method of landing my 9A… maximum drag configuration on final. Especially when formation landing with short wing RVs so I didn’t overrun them.

Vv
 
I have zero issues with learning slips or any other maneuvers, it’s a good idea:)
I’m just commenting on how RV’s slip. Not much out there will fly quite as nice as an RV which is why after flying one for the first time I gave up on the idea of buying another certified aircraft, period. RV’s are very special……they just don’t slip that well :D
 
Not side slip on final... we "crab" into the wind to kill drift which keeps airplane on centerline - airplane continues to fly true and straight to the relative wind (no cross controls) on final. As the airplane slows, when we begin the flare, the crab needs to increase to hold centerline, and at this point, we revert to a slip and land wing low touching down on one wheel. Some folks hold the crab and straighten the airplane with rudder at touchdown - a problem arrises if crab is kicked out too soon or too late. Too soon and the airplane drifts sideways with the crosswind loosing runway centerline and also placing large side load on the gear at touchdown. Too late and airplane lands in the crab with large side load on the gear. Best to transition from crab to slip during the flare. Tbakes practice...

Landing on the upwind wheel is side slipping with associated cross control, not crabbing.

It almost sounds like 727 technique. What you just described is what large swept-wing jets do because of wing tips, engine nacelles and extended flaps that will scrape the ground if a wing is low. That means they can't do a side slip down to landing. So they fly in a crab and kick it straight at the last minute. The only small aircraft pilots who do this regularly, then without the "kick" are Ercoupe pilots. All the sage (and occasionally crusty) tailwheel instructors I have ever had would have beat me over the head from the back seat were I to attempt to do the crab and kick method. And I have trained with the likes of Amelia Reid, Duane Cole and Bruce Bohannon.

There was a time in the 70's and 80's that flight schools with 172's and Cherokees were teaching the crab and kick method and it was even addressed in the flight training manuals of the time. That makes sense when many of the students would eventually end up in big iron so showing them that way made it easier later.

I am not trying to say there is anything wrong with a crab and kick method, just that it makes it safer for an average joe like me to establish cross-wind correction on a stabilized approach from way out and then all the way down final. I don't think kicking at the last minute is not necessarily "stabilized" and I am way too clumsy to do that dance at an altitude of 12 inches off the deck. I have also noticed that when keeping the aircraft axis aligned down the runway on final it is very easy to determine if the cross wind component exceeds the aircraft's limits. Running out of rudder before arresting the ground drift equals a no go and find another runway. Easier to change plans when way out and high than slow and down near the ground.
 
Landing on the upwind wheel is side slipping with associated cross control, not crabbing.

It almost sounds like 727 technique. What you just described is what large swept-wing jets do because of wing tips, engine nacelles and extended flaps that will scrape the ground if a wing is low. That means they can't do a side slip down to landing. So they fly in a crab and kick it straight at the last minute. The only small aircraft pilots who do this regularly, then without the "kick" are Ercoupe pilots. All the sage (and occasionally crusty) tailwheel instructors I have ever had would have beat me over the head from the back seat were I to attempt to do the crab and kick method. And I have trained with the likes of Amelia Reid, Duane Cole and Bruce Bohannon.

There was a time in the 70's and 80's that flight schools with 172's and Cherokees were teaching the crab and kick method and it was even addressed in the flight training manuals of the time. That makes sense when many of the students would eventually end up in big iron so showing them that way made it easier later.

I am not trying to say there is anything wrong with a crab and kick method, just that it makes it safer for an average joe like me to establish cross-wind correction on a stabilized approach from way out and then all the way down final. I don't think kicking at the last minute is not necessarily "stabilized" and I am way too clumsy to do that dance at an altitude of 12 inches off the deck. I have also noticed that when keeping the aircraft axis aligned down the runway on final it is very easy to determine if the cross wind component exceeds the aircraft's limits. Running out of rudder before arresting the ground drift equals a no go and find another runway. Easier to change plans when way out and high than slow and down near the ground.

I learned by slipping down final. However, my 6A transition CFI recommended trying the crab approach. I settled on a hybrid. I crab down final and put in a slip as I come over the numbers. I find that the winds seems to change dramatically coming down the last 100+ feet anyways (at least at my home airport), so nothing is really stabilized anyways. This also makes the final approach more stabilized across different landings, as slips require more power to achieve the same decent rate as a non slip final. Seems easier to me to just wait until I get into the conditions at the runway environment first. You do need to be a bit quicker putting in the slip though with this method.
 
I learned by slipping down final. However, my 6A transition CFI recommended trying the crab approach. I settled on a hybrid. I crab down final and put in a slip as I come over the numbers. I find that the winds seems to change dramatically coming down the last 100+ feet anyways (at least at my home airport), so nothing is really stabilized anyways. This also makes the final approach more stabilized across different landings, as slips require more power to achieve the same decent rate as a non slip final. Seems easier to me to just wait until I get into the conditions at the runway environment first. You do need to be a bit quicker putting in the slip though with this method.

Bingo. I crab all the way to the numbers, it gives you an excellent sense of what the wind is doing at the actual runway environment. Then when it's time to actually flare and start feeling for the runway, kick in enough rudder to align the nose, and enough aileron to keep you there. You can put whatever name you like on it, it's a dance. Practice it often because one day you'll need it for real.
 
I learned in J5, so slips where the way until I had to transition to a 172. At that point, it was flaps only. Since then, I have learned that:
1) If you have to do a go around, slips allow you to start your climb much sooner than retracting flaps.
2) slips are great for clearing obstacles at the approach end of short runways, especially in combination with flaps.
3) I prefere slips to flaps, but usually use both.
4) a horizontal slip is a great way to apply the "brakes" if you do a fast approach and need to bleed speed.
5) new passengers don't like slips, especially in an airplane that does them well, like a cub

Tim
 
I learned by slipping down final. However, my 6A transition CFI recommended trying the crab approach. I settled on a hybrid. I crab down final and put in a slip as I come over the numbers. I find that the winds seems to change dramatically coming down the last 100+ feet anyways (at least at my home airport), so nothing is really stabilized anyways. This also makes the final approach more stabilized across different landings, as slips require more power to achieve the same decent rate as a non slip final. Seems easier to me to just wait until I get into the conditions at the runway environment first. You do need to be a bit quicker putting in the slip though with this method.

+1 Same technique I use, I do it a tad before the numbers though.
 
Bingo. I crab all the way to the numbers, it gives you an excellent sense of what the wind is doing at the actual runway environment. Then when it's time to actually flare and start feeling for the runway, kick in enough rudder to align the nose, and enough aileron to keep you there. You can put whatever name you like on it, it's a dance. Practice it often because one day you'll need it for real.

I’m with Greg. That’s pretty much how I do all my landings, and it works great on really windy days. The same technique works on most airplanes I’ve ever flown, no matter how big they are - with slight variations. On an RV I start the runway alignment at a low altitude - 50-100 feet depending on crosswind strength and wind gusts. On a big airplane the runway alignment starts at a higher AGL altitude, about 200-300’, and this is by design. A coupled autoland on an airliner starts with a crab down final until below 500’. Then it goes into a runway alignment mode where the autopilot transitions from a crab to a forward slip. It maintains this control through the landing. At ‘flare capture’ the bank angle doesn’t change and runway centerline (localizer) is maintained with rudder/nose wheel steering. This is all a little dated and may be a little different now, but is basically the same type of technique I use in a normal VFR landing in my RV, control-wise. For me anyway, flying a complete final approach leg in a forward slip is a little uncomfortable, and not necessary in terms of control authority and stall margin. Your approach techniques are important for you and might vary. Whatever way you are trained and we’ll practiced at is probably the safest technique for you. There’s more than one way.
 
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