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A&P mechanics out there?

Skeejere

Member
This is not a Vans specific question so not sure it is allowed on here. But here goes: I’m considering a career change and thinking of attending an AMT program to become an A&P mechanic. Thing is, I’m not interesting in working for the airlines. My goal is to stay in general aviation: do annual inspections, engine overhauls, etc. also wondering if there is any profit margin for “flipping” airplanes like people flip houses, if I could do much of the work myself. For example, buying planes close to needing overhaul, fix up, re-sell. I’m 45 years old and looking for a “second chapter” in life and something that I could enjoy and could monetize, slowly easing into retirement years. Any help or advice would be appreciated. Thanks everybody. Oh and btw, I’m currently building an RV-10
 
My opinion is that you can’t make a ton of money flipping planes unless you can find the barn deals. If you look at prices for a runout plane vs a fresh restore, I don’t think it’s possible. No one discounts their ratty plane by the cost of making it nice. And no one gets what they have in a really nice and freshly restored plane.
 
My thoughts..

Glad to see someone interested in becoming an A&P, but here are a few observations I have made after 42 years in the industry. I got my A&P at 19, went straight to the airlines for 25 years, then I went to an MRO (Big plane overhaul company)where I manage large aircraft maintenance and modification(most airlines contract out the majority of work now days.). Being a passionate aviation geek, I also acquired my IA and built an RV-4. It is nearly impossible to o get an A&P , then just "dive in" to GA and be good(and safe) at it. GA is WAY more difficult than airline work ,and the responsibility of it is also a bit undaunting, you are the guy doing 100% of the research, paperwork, inspection and touch labor. I do GA work and experimental aircraft mentoring and maintenance "on the side" because I enjoy it and it balances my aviation hobby checkbook. It takes years to understand all the different aspects of small aircraft, and there are few people to teach this stuff to you. Not trying to talk you out of it, just expressing the reality and liability of it. I'm sure other "Graybeards" in the business will echo similar thoughts... I will be doing it in my retirement years, mostly RV's if I can !!
 
yep, I can only echo fixnflyguy...

Worked 20 years as an A&P for the airline here in EU. It took this time for me to realise that pilots were earning way more to work way less. So I stopped moaning and became one :D

Always kept light aviation as a hobby, still enjoy turning wrenches as a retiree hobby :)
Would I recommend to anyone to get and work as an A&P? Yes, definitely. Interesting, varied, hands-on, technology, problem solving, etc. Just don't do it for the dough...
 
Yet another echo of the above two responses. There is a LOT to learn. The A&P license allows you to get your foot in the door and do that. If you can start part time while keeping a full time job (as do I), you can easily finance your hobby. Most the the A&Ps I know that make a living of it also have retirement from a previous job, either military or civilian. I gained experience in the Army and got my A&P in 1995 but didn't use it in GA until 2013 (and a year at Gulfstream 1998-99). I hope to retire in 5 years and keep the hobby to offset the cost of flying and upgrading my RV.

That said, it is a great hobby. Go for it!
 
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I could have wrote that OP word for word. I got laid off after 20 years in the oilfield. While I was unemployed I got my A&P. Now 6 months later I cant find one single A&P job that starts out above $18hr and you are required to relocate to some far away city in another state. I feel like I just wasted a ton of money and a lot of time for a useless certificate. Unless you start out very young and are willing to take those low paying entry level positions it’s not recommend as a career change. I wound up giving up on the career change and went back to being a professional steering wheel holder.
 
Listening to the experts, we have a looming mechanic shortage as well as a pilot shortage. Too bad there doesn't seem to be a lot of incentive for people to get into it.

It does seem to me that having your A&P and commercial would open up a lot of possibilities for interesting flying jobs outside the airlines.

Also rather than "flipping" how about buying rebuildable accident planes to repair and re-sell? Seems like I've seen some of those for a song. And if it's something like an RV all the better, much lower paperwork / inspection burden.
 
How do you feel about wiring? I keep hearing about the tight job market for avionics technicians, to the extent that some of the big shops are even mentoring youngsters through a training program to ensure they have a future workforce. Maybe phone a few local avionics installers and pick their brain?
 
thanks for the link SMRacer, excellent read and a good roundup of the general situation.
 
Search jobs on jsfirm website. There are lots of jobs out there that pay well if you are willing to move. (There were wayyy more before COVID...)
 
A new A&P needs to gain experience before they have many choices of work and pay. If one wants to stay in GA then they have to accept low pay. Once they have enough experience and obtain their IA ticket they could actually go into business for themselves and still be broke after the overhead of liability insurance and a place to work out of. A GA mechanic will never earn what a top notch auto mechanic at a dealership earns and they have very little liability.

The real money is with the airlines. Many mechanics are earning close to $50.00 an hour now since the airlines have dropped their defined pension plans and expect the employee to fund their own retirement. There is many draw backs to airline work, mostly quality of life concerns, as most mechanics work the graveyard shift.

I left the airlines after 30 years in line maintenance and management to work my oil business over 20 years ago. I work on my own aircraft, but will not put my name in anyone's logbook out of fear of losing my estate I have built up over the years from some ambulance chasing lawyer. When you are young you don't worry about things like that, but at my age I don't plan or have the time to start all over again.

Would I recommend an aviation career in maintenance? Yes I would but with a clear understanding of the industry.
george
 
A&P?

I can only choose to echo those above. Getting the A&P is a great accomplishment and should be celebrated as a great first step, but to really get in, the IA is required. I’m creeping up on 20 years of being in the GA sector.
I have had some very rewarding experiences in this career, like being a Crew Chief for Gene Soucy at an air show. Also have flown all over doing pre-buy work and repairs. That said, the wage amount isn’t NEARLY what it should be. I run my own maintenance shop and it’s feast or famine. Sometimes you can’t keep up and then suddenly there’s a good lull. I think what bothers me the most is that there aren’t many younger kids learning to fly, that hurts the industry as a whole.
When people ask me “should I get my A&P?”, I ALWAYS say yes, that way they’ll understand why I protect mine so much. If you can find an apprenticeship program, do it that way. Way better experience in my opinion.
Feel free to call if you’d like to talk about it, 608-459-5949
 
Mid life A&P

Good info from previous posters. I got my A&P right after high school 45 years ago and the IA 10 years later. Spent 20 really enjoyable years in GA maintenance in a variety of positions ending up as Service Manager at a busy Cessna dealership. The pay was decent, but with 2 little kids and college in the future I needed more income. Transitioned to flying, first corporate then fractional and did well enough to accomplish those goals. Still do a couple annuals a year plus some consulting outside of the day job. Depending on where you are located it’s possible to earn a living in GA aircraft maintenance. Starting out you probably won’t see “big bucks” with good benefits however you define that. I had no interest in being a airline mechanic, but some of my Spartan classmates went that route and did quite well (most of them are retired now and I’m still working). Corporate flight departments are another option. Flipping planes for profit can be done, but it takes market knowledge and buying the right candidate to have a chance at success.

Don Broussard
RV9 Rebuild in Progress
57 Pacer
 
Grateful for the feedback

Thank you everybody. All your responses have been extremely helpful. At my age and station in life, I’m realizing that I may not have enough “years left in the bank” to achieve the AMT and IA, plus the years of experience needed to excel in the general aviation setting. I’m now looking into some certificate programs specializing in avionics/electrical. At the very least, this will help me when it’s time to install the avionics on my RV-10. Thanks again everyone.
One last question, anybody have any experience with the avionics programs at either Everett Community College or Clover Park Technical College in Washington State? Happy flying everyone!
 
GA maintenance

Back in the late 1980's Clover Park Technical College had great aviation programs. I don't know anything more current however. As far as General Aviation maintenance, the ONLY reason to get into it is a love of the business. The return on invested time and money is poor. Here in Alaska (general aviation central) a new A&P working in GA only starts at $22-23/hr after several years experience and gaining your IA you will max out between $38-45/ DOE, BTW benefits in GA are minimal to none. You cannot make a sound financial argument for a carrier in GA MX. But it can be enjoyable if you figure out the money issue. Good Luck, Russ Just an A&P/IA working in General Aviation......
 
Fixing and flipping is pretty hard. Just look at what most "tired" planes sell for, then add in the cost of an o/h, new avionics, paint, etc..., and finally compare the total to what cream puffs of the same model are selling for. Most of those sellers will admit to losing money. You can save by applying your own labor but probably not as much as you think.

Most car flippers will tell you that you make your money on the buy. It's hard work. You have to really know the market, scour for deals constantly, be Johnny on the spot when you find one, and be a ruthless negotiator. I've done it a few times and it's helped subsize my flying, but there is no way I could make a living at it.

There are a few shops out there doing wreck rebuilds but I think you'll find they have developed special tools and jigs, and some specific skill sets.
 
not a good way to make a living

while a good hobby, if you have to pay a mortgage, have a family and other normal expenses take your skills and look elsewhere. I worked for 7 years as a GA mechanic, IA and finally gave it up. You can make a lot more money in the airlines (working nights, weekends and holidays). I tried that but the hours were killer. So I went to work for Lockheed Martin and have never regretted the move. From a financial perspective I wasted 7 years in GA. Be afraid.
 
I could have wrote that OP word for word. I got laid off after 20 years in the oilfield. While I was unemployed I got my A&P. Now 6 months later I cant find one single A&P job that starts out above $18hr and you are required to relocate to some far away city in another state. I feel like I just wasted a ton of money and a lot of time for a useless certificate. Unless you start out very young and are willing to take those low paying entry level positions it’s not recommend as a career change. I wound up giving up on the career change and went back to being a professional steering wheel holder.

And just a year after posting this you're living the dream again as an A&P close to your home ! :D:D



To the OP, like Arlie says, you have to be willing to relocate to where the jobs and pay are located. Before I retired I flew in many countries around the world and got my additional ATPs in some of them too. While overseas I was getting almost 3 times the pay I was getting here domestically BUT I was away 6 months out of the year and traveling back and forth every month can get old after a while.

To me electronics is just a hobby and I work on my own aircraft, but if you go the Avionics route, there's always work and it pays well even when on your own !
 
A&p

A&p shortage? There’s always a shortage of workers
in a particular field that will work for below prevailing
wage. When there is a real shortage there is usually
a large sign on bonus and various perks solicited.
I will agree that we have seen a pilot shortage that’s
Closing now.
But usually it’s a welding, truck driving, hvac, school
that says there’s a shortage of workers to increase
there bottom line through tuition.
But I am an A&P, IA and almost 50 years through out
military, general, airline, government aviation contract
work if this is what you want to do then go for it.
If this could be a passion for you then explore your
options for training.
Because I have been around technicians (mechanics)
That should have sold insurance,because they didn’t
know a hammer from a screwdriver. But they got in
the career because they thought it paid well.
 
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