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If your RV flips on landing...

Ed_Wischmeyer

Well Known Member
The AOPA Air Safety Institute has a well-done podcast on this topic, talking with Patty Wagstaff whose Bonanza ran off the runway, apparently due to a locked brake, hit a berm, and flipped over. They wound up exiting through the window emergency exit as the door could not be opened. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/podcasts/podcasts/there-i-was

A few takeaways:
* She used to carry a canopy breaker only in her Extra, now she takes it in every plane that she flies;
* In the accident, small cockpits items went everywhere. (I can imagine that an unsecured canopy breaker could get lost and unreachable in an accident if it wasn't secured in easy reach);
* Make sure that those small items can't hurt you in such an accident;
* In some airplanes (e.g. Navion), the fuselage can distort enough in an accident that the canopy cannot be slid open;
* Even though the accident occurred at a towered airport, help was relatively slow to arrive. If there had been a fire...

Highly recommended.

And I'm reminded of an Arizona RV-3 off field landing quite some years ago where the plane flipped and the pilot was unable to extricate himself. Help came about 45 minutes later, if I recall correctly...

Ed
 
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A friend flipped his RV-4 in an off airport landing, got trapped, and had to use his cell phone to call for help/extraction. He was unhurt.

He said it was a long time to spend upside down trapped in an RV-4.
 
I love the unlimited view from our RV canopies.....but being trapped upside-down is my biggest concern for an off-airport landing....

This has been discussed who-knows-how-many-times over the years and there still isn't an ideal remedy, just the nature of the RV design.
 
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I bought the flyboys canopy breaker tool. Of all the bad things that can happen, being trapped inside is a very likely scenario, and one I don?t want to find myself in. Very important tool to have, imho.
 
I was trapped in a convertible car that flipped and was pouring out fuel, was not a fun thing.

A few years ago a buddy ground loped his Aerobatic bi plane, and was stuck, he told me make sure you don?t undo the seat belt cause then your ON the canopy. His high wing would have allowed the canopy to slide without him being on it. Doesn?t really matter on my RV cause its a tip up.

I also carry a knife with a glass breaker on the end, not sure it?s robust enough. Weight keeps me from adding a larger one.
 
Bob hoover

?Fly the plane as far into the crash as you possibly can?
Bob Hoover.
I?m not making fun of this thread .. you play the cards your dealt at the moment their dealt.. can?t Monday morning quarterback.
I raced cars a few years local oval track and there definitely is a way about crashing .. I can?t explain except to say stay at the wheel or stick and stay till the end of the show.
 
I have one of those breaker tools in a pouch velcro's at arms length but I also have the mindset that should I have no choice but to make an off field arrival in my RV8 I intend to slide the canopy back just prior to touchdown, that's my take on it:)
 
I have one of those Air Force Canopy Breaker tools from an F-4. At a weight of over two lbs, I haven't quite figured out where to mount it. Far forward might help the CG in my RV7. I can imagine it would work very, very well if I ever had to use it. Here's to hoping it always stays in it's bracket.
 
Never tried it, but always heard it?s near impossible to slide the canopy open in-flight
 
open in flight

I opened the sliding canopy of a Grumman Tiger in flight for flour bombing comps. There was a max permissible airspeed and it took a bit of effort to open it about 6-8".

However the problem with (crash) landing with an opened sliding canopy is that it will slide forward on impact. So we therefore keep a small $10 axe in our RV, and hope to never need it.
 
Flipped RV-6A

Look up the story of the late Frank Eldridge of Waycross, Ga

He landed upside down in shallow water. The rapid flip forced him to slide under the shoulder harnesses into the baggage area

He punched his way out the side of the canopy with a long pocket knife

As to the F4 canopy breaker tool, I mounted mine on the back side of the flap housing which keeps it within reach if needed
 
I have a 7A with tip up. I use to think nothing of flying over short distances of water. I saw the video of two planes that bumped into each other over a beach somewhere, (don't remember) where. One was an RV 8 IIRC. The pilot did everything right even sliding the canopy open before touching down on the water. He flipped on contact.

That got me to thinking. With a tip up, if it didn't break I'd be trapped. Buddy suggested I always keep a magazine handy to read until the pressure equalized so I could open it. Since seeing that video and thinking about it... as much as possible, I avoid overwater flights. I don't have anything that would break the canopy on board. Seems like it would be hard to break.
 
I don't have anything that would break the canopy on board. Seems like it would be hard to break.

Budd Davisson did an article on fabricating an escape knife from a large bolt. His philosophy was/is ‘can you put your fist through your canopy.’ The answer is NO. :eek:
 
I have a 7A with tip up. I use to think nothing of flying over short distances of water. I saw the video of two planes that bumped into each other over a beach somewhere, (don't remember) where. One was an RV 8 IIRC. The pilot did everything right even sliding the canopy open before touching down on the water. He flipped on contact.

I wonder if that's one of the reasons pilots kicked the rudder hard at the moment of impact on water. Spins the plane around might help avoid the flip...might also keep the canopy somewhat aft?
 
A business opportunity

So here's an idea for somebody to run with. Suppose there were, glued to the top of the canopy, two or three metal widgets that would break the canopy if the plane flipped over. If they were nicely faired in, the drag would be negligible.

A few design issues:
* How do you make sure that the widgets don't slide off the canopy before they break it, in case the plane is sliding when it goes upside down?
* (Related) How do you make sure that the widget still breaks the canopy in the presence of side loads?
* For a tip-up canopy, how do you make sure that the widget breaks the canopy and doesn't just push it out of shape?
 
What to do

I have to agree with everyone here , that?s often on my mind before flight ,the same as all the ELT fails we?ve been seeing ! here in Canada anyway, I?ve been caring a 14? Hatchet under my passenger seat Cushion since I started flying off my phase one time, No complaints from the passengers in 200 hrs ! depending on the off A/P landing surface, I?m leaning towards a cartwheel type of touch down if the surface has any moisture in it , this plan would probably all go to hack in a handbasket in a real scenario though!
 
So here's an idea for somebody to run with. Suppose there were, glued to the top of the canopy, two or three metal widgets that would break the canopy if the plane flipped over. If they were nicely faired in, the drag would be negligible.

A few design issues:
* How do you make sure that the widgets don't slide off the canopy before they break it, in case the plane is sliding when it goes upside down?
* (Related) How do you make sure that the widget still breaks the canopy in the presence of side loads?
* For a tip-up canopy, how do you make sure that the widget breaks the canopy and doesn't just push it out of shape?

Has anybody ever considered sticking detonation cord to the outside of the canopy...? Seems like its pretty cheap and effective. They do it on fighter jet canopies....
 
Minor details, I'd say... :D

What's not so minor is what would happen if you blew the cord off while upside down. The blast would be re-directed away from the ground towards you.

The detonator on canopies pre-supposes an ejection seat I think.
 
I have one of those breaker tools in a pouch velcro's at arms length but I also have the mindset that should I have no choice but to make an off field arrival in my RV8 I intend to slide the canopy back just prior to touchdown, that's my take on it:)

If you fly slow, you can open your canopy. But as soon as you touch down on a rough surface, it is going to slam shut again. Hopefully your head is not in the way of the canopy bow when it slams shut, or you won't need to worry about getting out.

I've thought about drilling a hole in the track, and having a bolt on a lanyard that I could stick through the hole to keep the canopy open.
 
I carry a multipurpose tool attached to my shoulder harness.
StatGear T3 Tactical Auto Rescue Tool

img_0155.jpg


img_0154.jpg
 
Yep topic has been beat to death. However a few RV's have flipped in water and
land... and the pilot lived to tell about it. I think it is a given if you can't open
the canopy before the flip occurs you will have to break it.

The method of breaking the canopy has been discussed with much creativity...
I like the spring loaded penetrating BOLT designed for dispatching small
animals like rabbits breed on farms for harvest. (Yes rabbit meat is popular).
It is like a huge center punch except you pull the plunger back and lock it,
then push a button, POW! Bigger pneumatic bolts are used to dispatch larger
farm animals.

I carry pliers as well because after you have a small hole you can make
it bigger easily by grabbing edge of broken plexi and breaking it off to make the
hole bigger. I think it is easier than hacking away at it by swinging a knife or
hammer at it. Edge of plexi may be sharp so the right clothes when you fly is key
or some blanket to pad your egress.
 
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Don't Van's tip-ups have jettisonable canopies like the RV-14? Always wondered if it would be smart to jettison the canopy or not in a water landing (or even an off-field landing)
 
If you fly slow, you can open your canopy. But as soon as you touch down on a rough surface, it is going to slam shut again. Hopefully your head is not in the way of the canopy bow when it slams shut, or you won't need to worry about getting out.

I've thought about drilling a hole in the track, and having a bolt on a lanyard that I could stick through the hole to keep the canopy open.

I have a pin that keeps the canopy partially open, I wouldn't try to slid it all the way back anyway just part way, give me a fighting chance to get out whilst still using the canopy hoop frame as some form of additional protection. My fear is being unable to slide it open at all.
 
sawzall?

An electric saw might work. Not sure if it would trigger sparks that could ignite fuel - would be something to test.

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Don't Van's tip-ups have jettisonable canopies like the RV-14? Always wondered if it would be smart to jettison the canopy or not in a water landing (or even an off-field landing)
Sliders can be jettison-able with a builder mod. RV4 will rip the canopy off the side hinge... One thing to think of, what if you take off the tail feathers with the canopy? I think jettisoning canopy as reserved for a bailout with chute... however PIC... up to you. Not all flips are expected, e.g., nose gear folds.

With a slider at slow speed before touchdown you might try and open it. Sliders can't be easily opened at higher speed. However canopy would be secondary to flying the plane in an emergency. Cutting my way out would be my plan A if the plane flips. I recommend not flipping over... :rolleyes: :D
 
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