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Passenger Warning label

RicoB

Well Known Member
Patron
I got a quick question. I am finishing up my panel upgrade and I want to know if it is legal to put the Passenger warning label on the tip up portion of the canopy. It's visible when the canopy is up while the passenger is getting in and while we are sitting on the ground, once the canopy is closed you can't see the label anymore. WOULD that be legal? I have seem pictures like that.
Thanks
 
Humor

Here is where I put mine. But seriously I did manage to fit it above. ( sorry for upside down pic)I just need to find a place for ELT sticker.
 

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This is a good one...
 

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The Passenger Warning placard needs to be visible to all occupants during flight.
 
This question comes up regularly. I think it's respectful to the people that you take in your aircraft to be crystal clear about the risks they are taking by flying with you in your aircraft.

Hopefully you will do this long before they get seated in the aircraft, so seeing a placard that says “Passenger warning ― this aircraft does not comply with federal safety regulations for standard aircraft.” will not cause them undue stress.

Anyone that claims that flying in any single engine piston powered aircraft with a crew of one person is "safe" has a very wide definition of that word.
 
Where did you see min 3/8” size? All I found was verify display in full view.

There is no size requirement for the Passenger Warning placard. It just needs to be large enough to be legible.
 
"Passenger" warning placard....

The Passenger Warning placard needs to be visible to all occupants during flight.

So: I have to be able to see it from the front seat of my RV-4? The one that I built? Seems silly to be warning myself that I built this aircraft....:p
 
So: I have to be able to see it from the front seat of my RV-4? The one that I built? Seems silly to be warning myself that I built this aircraft....:p

FAA's reasoning for this is that someone other than the builder may at sometime be flying the aircraft.
 
Interesting. In Canada the requirement is that the warning be visible on entry to the aircraft, and many have placed it on the outside of the canopy rail (on sliding canopies) or on the portion of the tip-up that is hidden behind the panel when it's closed (on tip-ups).

Once you're in, there's no need to see the warning 100% of the time... That's just wasted panel space.
 
Is it legal in the US to put on the bottom part of the tip up like mentioned above?
You see it when you get in.
 
There is no size requirement for the Passenger Warning placard. It just needs to be large enough to be legible.

I could not find it either, Mel, got it from the post below which I now realize refers to a Canadian reg. Apologies.


Great White North -> readily legible from each passenger station, or displayed on side of fusalage and readily legible to persons entering aircraft.

With sliding canopy many of us are putting the warning label on outside of the track rails, readily visible to anyone entering aircraft, not visible to anyone when canopy is closed. Minimum size on side of aircraft, 3/8" letters.
https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=24404&highlight=passenger+warning&page=2
 
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Single seat passenger warning

This was posted earlier (late 2017 below) and my first experimental was a single seat and did not have an issue with a DAR not requiring the placard. On Wednesday the FAA is coming out to inspect a new build (single seater) recently completed. Has the requirement for single seaters changed ?


_________________________________________________________________


Just a "heads-up", as of September 21st, 2017, new ruling on the Passenger Warning;

Except for single place aircraft, the following placard must be displayed in the aircraft in full view of all occupants: “PASSENGER WARNING—THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT.”
 
FAA's reasoning for this is that someone other than the builder may at sometime be flying the aircraft.

Is 91.203(b) not good enough? No person may operate a civil aircraft unless the airworthiness certificate required by paragraph (a) of this section or a special flight authorization issued under § 91.715 is displayed at the cabin or cockpit entrance so that it is legible to passengers or crew

An official document that clearly states experimental on it and required to be displayed at the entrance to all passengers and crew is not good enough? That someone other than the builder didn’t check for AROW during preflight? Seems like an unnecessary placard, but just my opinion.
 
I bought my RV-10 about 4 months ago and had obviously noticed the main placard. One day, I was waiting in the plane for an IFR clearance and only then did I notice the little blurb to the right :D! Thanks, Guy!
 

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Last one I saw had this added

……This aircraft is built to higher standards.
 
Is 91.203(b) not good enough?
An official document that clearly states experimental on it and required to be displayed at the entrance to all passengers and crew is not good enough? That someone other than the builder didn’t check for AROW during preflight? Seems like an unnecessary placard, but just my opinion.

The requirement for the "Passenger Warning" placard is clearly stated in the Operating Limitations issued to the aircraft. The operator of the aircraft is bound by those Op Lims.

How many people do you know that look at the Airworthiness Certificate upon entering the aircraft?

This type of thread comes up over and over again. We have more freedom than any other country I know of when it comes to flying amateur-built aircraft. Why are so many people bent on trying the circumvent the rules?
 
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I bought my RV-10 about 4 months ago and had obviously noticed the main placard. One day, I was waiting in the plane for an IFR clearance and only then did I notice the little blurb to the right :D! Thanks, Guy!

"AMETEUR"? and "FEDERALSAFETY"? I suppose spellcheck doesn't for for all caps?
 
Be sure to note the specific wording required by your Ops Limits. I silk-screened the standard (I thought) warning on my panel many years before it got inspected, i.e. not easily changed. When it came time for the inspection, the wording had changed slightly and I fretted over whether the inspector would make me change it. He either didn't notice or didn't care. Just another something to watch for.
 
Passenger not Pilot

Except for single place aircraft, the following placard must be displayed in the aircraft in full view of all occupants: “PASSENGER WARNING—THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT.”

For my single place FAA inspection I'm going to not include it or would need to change the wording to: “PILOT WARNING—THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT.” Which would probably add more paperwork to the task.
 
Be sure to note the specific wording required by your Ops Limits. I silk-screened the standard (I thought) warning on my panel many years before it got inspected, i.e. not easily changed. When it came time for the inspection, the wording had changed slightly and I fretted over whether the inspector would make me change it. He either didn't notice or didn't care. Just another something to watch for.

The "older" wording is still acceptable, as it contains all of the current wording.
The newer wording simply omits the aircraft type; i.e. Amateur-Built or Light-Sport.
 
The requirement for the "Passenger Warning" placard is clearly stated in the Operating Limitations issued to the aircraft. The operator of the aircraft is bound by those Op Lims.

How many people do you know that look at the Airworthiness Certificate upon entering the aircraft?

This type of thread comes up over and over again. We have more freedom than any other country I know of when it comes to flying amateur-built aircraft. Why are so many people bent on trying the circumvent the rules?

Think back 18 years..... The kits then had many questions that were answered here on VAF. On an average day, the first page (of today's posts) would completely rotate out about four times....

Nobody had time to squabble about 3 square inches on a panel that had nowhere the amount of free space that we have today.
 
“PASSENGER WARNING - THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT.”

I usually point that out to my passenger and tell them "I have to tell you that I built this airplane and the FAA says I don't know what I'm doing."
 
“PASSENGER WARNING - THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT.”
It's sad because it's not even technically correct. Correct wording would be "this aircraft has not shown compliance with federal safety regulations for standard aircraft."

The RV series was designed to the same regulations as standard aircraft, it's just not feasible to prove that each individual example meets every regulation... But I bet a lot, if not most, of them do.
 
It's sad because it's not even technically correct. Correct wording would be "this aircraft has not shown compliance with federal safety regulations for standard aircraft."

The RV series was designed to the same regulations as standard aircraft, it's just not feasible to prove that each individual example meets every regulation... But I bet a lot, if not most, of them do.

From a practical standpoint, it may not be correct. But, technically it IS correct. Primarily because of "red tape" issue.
 
So if it says “passenger warning….”

It implies that the pilot is not required to be able to see the placard and it can be placed in view of a passenger in the back seat of a tandem airplane such as an RV8.

Logical, but logic is a rare commodity at times when bureaucracy is involved.

Out of curiosity, does the FAR specify placement?
 
It's sad because it's not even technically correct. Correct wording would be "this aircraft has not shown compliance with federal safety regulations for standard aircraft."

The RV series was designed to the same regulations as standard aircraft, it's just not feasible to prove that each individual example meets every regulation... But I bet a lot, if not most, of them do.

The whole thing is a farce as the passengers have no idea what that means or really what kind of risk they are taking. It can be widely different from one EAB to another even if same kit. Plus by the passenger reading it, you have not relinquished any liability.
But the lawyers of bureaucrats say to post it so we follow the rules.
 
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The whole thing is a farce as the passengers have no idea what that means or really what kind of risk they are taking. It can be widely different from one EAB to another even if same kit. Plus by the passenger reading it, you have not relinquished any liability.
But the lawyers of bureaucrats say to post it so we follow the rules.

Duh! And how is this different from the millions of other labels that tell us not to "dry our hair in the shower" or not to "eat Silica packets"?
 
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This type of thread comes up over and over again. We have more freedom than any other country I know of when it comes to flying amateur-built aircraft. Why are so many people bent on trying the circumvent the rules?
Well said, Mel.
 
Duh! And how is this different from the millions of other labels that tell us not to "dry our hair in the shower" or not to "eat Silica packets"?
You're allowed to remove those warnings once the product is delivered to the consumer. :) None of my house guests will see a "don't dry hair in shower" warning...
 
Out of curiosity, does the FAR specify placement?

Verify the following placard is displayed in the aircraft in full view of all occupants: “PASSENGER WARNING—THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY
WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT.”

So the pilot of an RV-4/8 must be able to see it as well.

At least in Canada it says "while entering the aircraft", so you can put it somewhere both people can see it, but not necessarily on the instrument panel or somewhere that it stares at you for the entire flight.
 
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