What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

USB power outlets

Hi all. Anyone know how much juice the USB power outlets put out? Just curious.

Hi all. Anyone know how much juice the USB power outlets put out? Just curious.

I believe the standard is 1.2A. I would install one the puts out 2.4A. These provide better power to Ipads and other power hungry items. The 1.2A ones barely charge the cell phones when not being used and take FOREVER to fully charge. That's my current experience anyways.

Stein has good one like these:
https://www.steinair.com/product/dual-usb-panel-jack/

USB-Dual-Panel-Jack-3.jpg
 
At this point, I'd recommend looking for a device that supports USB QC or PD. Its not just a matter of amperage anymore.. its also the output voltage.. and negotiation with the device.

With the proper charger (PD), the iPhone will negotiate a higher voltage and be able to charge in 1.5 hours vs. about 3 if it were stuck at 5v/2.5A.

I'm looking to retrofit with this: https://powerwerx.com/panel-usbc-pd-power-delivery-qc30-blue
 
I replaced the one between the seats in my legacy RV-12 with q dual outlet I bought on Amazon and put in a switch since the original design had the receptacle wired right to the battery and my receptacle has a light that might drain the battery.
 
Just by looking the referenced PD 18W Powerwerx unit seems to have a nylon or ABS plastic housing. Which is probably just fine for a center console of an RV-12.

However, when mounting on the instrument panel or near systems runs I always try to pick these ports when they have a metal housing for shielding (usually Aluminum). The transformers built into these USB ports can tend to put out EMI and the metal housing shields that an order of magnitude better than ABS plastic or nylon since those materials are invisible to EMI. Here is a link to a $13 all-metal body example with two QC3.0 ports and one 30W PD USB C port from eBay shipped from NJ:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124844925312

Here are some pictures of others with 20W PD for a bit less $ but shipped from China (yuk):
 

Attachments

  • Aluminum USB black.jpg
    Aluminum USB black.jpg
    57.7 KB · Views: 182
  • Aluminum USB colors.jpg
    Aluminum USB colors.jpg
    46 KB · Views: 198
I like that one better.. man, wish I found that first.

Although the spec sheet doesn't list the input current rating, or how it should be fused.. the output max is 60W (12v x 5A).. which is fine.. but I'm sure there are some DC-DC conversion losses.. so it might be possible to pop a 5A fuse if you plug in 3 devices and they all want max power (unlikely, but possible).

For that price, I might buy it and test it on the bench... and swap out the part I just installed.
 
In all honesty I might lean towards a two-port version. An aircraft is the last place I would want somebody to plug too many high-amp devices into one source. I mean, all these things are made in China on the cheap all the while advertising perfect specifications. And to make that concern pointless at least they are fused. But I have installed and see discussions here about having great luck with the $10-ish high-amp metal housing power ports.
 
Hi all. Anyone know how much juice the USB power outlets put out? Just curious.

I just checked on my 12iS and it is the same outlet shown in post #2.
So the answer is each jack puts out 5 volts 2.4 amps.

usb.jpg
 
Last edited:
I mean, all these things are made in China on the cheap all the while advertising perfect specifications.

The Blue Sea USB charger is designed in Bellingham, WA- but it is assembled in China. Occasionally one can still find a few things that U.S. engineers have touched!!

Cheers.
 
I believe the standard is 1.2A. I would install one the puts out 2.4A. These provide better power to Ipads and other power hungry items. The 1.2A ones barely charge the cell phones when not being used and take FOREVER to fully charge. That's my current experience anyways.

Stein has good one like these:
https://www.steinair.com/product/dual-usb-panel-jack/

View attachment 19947

Thanks, just ordered one.

The further I've gotten into my project the more I wish I had discovered Stein earlier. Yeah, you can get stuff cheaper from ACS or eBay, but for a first time builder like me it's all about tech support and customer service, Stein is awesome on both, they've even called me on weekends when they were in the shop working on their own projects to answer a question. Can't get that from eBay or ACS. Now I go to them first, and if they sell it, I figure they've tested it and stand behind it, so I don't ask (too many) questions, I just trust them and buy it.
 
Last edited:
My iPad Pro likes PD via a USB-C connector. I use s couple of these from Amazon...they work fine.
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2022-09-27 at 12.37.50 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2022-09-27 at 12.37.50 PM.png
    706.9 KB · Views: 90
Last edited:
Garmin GSB 15

Bringing back an old thread...

I was recently at Airventure and saw the Garmin USB A & C power supplies. What do you get for $425 vs $17? I'm sure it's higher quality, but $400+ higher quality? Additional safety?

Garmin GSB 15 USB Power Supply

Amazon USB A & C Power Supply


You get a TSO'd part vs a "who knows what the performance specs are" part.

Yes, the Garmin part is stupidly expensive, unless you are talking about needing a TSO'd part for installation in a type certificated airplane.....and then it doesn't look so bad at 0.4 AMUs (aircraft monetary units.....aka: $1000).

I had two different types of the cheap ones in a power outlet to USB power adapter to iPad setup. Most of the time they worked fine....until they didn't, as in would not charge the iPad. I don't know if it was heat related, or something else causing it. After about the third time it happened with the second power adapter, I decided it lost the right to be in my airplane. I sprung for the Garmin replacement. I can now charge two ipads while in flight without ANY issues.

As for the price....check Aircraft Spruce. There are three versions of the GSB 15 (with different USB port configurations). The different configurations come at different prices. Maybe, the one you want is less expensive.
 
Bringing back an old thread...

I was recently at Airventure and saw the Garmin USB A & C power supplies. What do you get for $425 vs $17? I'm sure it's higher quality, but $400+ higher quality? Additional safety?

You get to proudly display the Garmin name on the part. Best I can tell, that is all the extra $400 gets you. I have a blue sea like posted earlier and works wonderfull with no noise and my plane has burned to a crisp yet.
 
Regarding the Garmin USB device.. if you're trying to do a drop-in replacement of the USB jacks, their mixed USB-A & USB-C and their dual USB-C units need 12v / 7.5A.

The RV-12iS is limited to 5A -- this is due to the power wires being fed via a d-sub connector, whose pins, and traces on the circuit board are limited to 5A. You can feed the jacks in a different way, but I wouldn't recommend using the existing wiring in the RV-12iS. (example: feed from one of the screw terminals and include an appropriate in-line fuse)

The previous linked AirVenture 2018 document only briefly touches upon QC (Quick Charge) and PD (Power Distribution) on page 31, noting that they are "oddball" protocols. But as of today, QC and PD are mainstream and absolutely necessary. This is why trying to charge your iPhone with an old "cube" apple charger will take you all day vs. a modern "cube" apple charger will take 1 hour. QC and PD chargers negotiate with the device (PD requires the cable itself to have a chip built-in to advertise what the cable supports -- you don't want to push 5A through a cable with thin wires that can safely do 2A (legacy wires)) to find the best voltage and amperage level acceptable to all devices in the chain.

The takeaway here is USB Type-A (rectangular) and Type-C (oval) are just the physical connectors. You really need to determine if the charger supports QC or PD.
 
Last edited:
Molex USB Mini50

These work well in my 14 zero noise. Used by multiple OEM's. Lit around each USB port. 40 To 50 USD. Comes in USB A and C.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot 2023-08-03 145822.jpg
    Screenshot 2023-08-03 145822.jpg
    44.4 KB · Views: 191
Last edited:
You get a TSO'd part vs a "who knows what the performance specs are" part.

Yes, the Garmin part is stupidly expensive, unless you are talking about needing a TSO'd part for installation in a type certificated airplane.....and then it doesn't look so bad at 0.4 AMUs (aircraft monetary units.....aka: $1000).

I had two different types of the cheap ones in a power outlet to USB power adapter to iPad setup. Most of the time they worked fine....until they didn't, as in would not charge the iPad. I don't know if it was heat related, or something else causing it. After about the third time it happened with the second power adapter, I decided it lost the right to be in my airplane. I sprung for the Garmin replacement. I can now charge two ipads while in flight without ANY issues.

As for the price....check Aircraft Spruce. There are three versions of the GSB 15 (with different USB port configurations). The different configurations come at different prices. Maybe, the one you want is less expensive.

Good points. And yep, Spruce offers them for $9 less ($416) than Garmin MSRP.

I'll see how my $17 versions hold up. If I have the same experience as you, I'll look into a higher quality solution.
 
Those look very nice! One difference I notice is that they show an output voltage of 5V. The Garmin does up to 12V.

The Garmin device supports USB PD, which allows the device to negotiate with the power supply to arrange a voltage higher than 5 volts, if the device asks for it. The Molex charger provides a max of 15 watts (5 volts at 3 amps), while the Garmin provides up to 27 watts (9 volts 3 amps, or 12 volts 2.25 amps). Is that worth an extra $350+? Maybe, but probably not to me... 15 watts is still plenty to keep an iPad mini running without draining its battery.
 
IPad Air

The Garmin device supports USB PD, which allows the device to negotiate with the power supply to arrange a voltage higher than 5 volts, if the device asks for it. The Molex charger provides a max of 15 watts (5 volts at 3 amps), while the Garmin provides up to 27 watts (9 volts 3 amps, or 12 volts 2.25 amps). Is that worth an extra $350+? Maybe, but probably not to me... 15 watts is still plenty to keep an iPad mini running without draining its battery.

My wife’s IPad Air draws 10 watts (I think that what the spec read) and the Molex output is 15 watts. Seems to charge well in the aircraft. Are there other devices that 15 watts would not charge it? Could be a consideration for the future but it seems 3 amps @ 5 volts would be plenty. Since most of our portable systems have a one cell battery 5 volts should be optimal to charge but possibly charging a one cell at 12 volts is ok? Obviously I’m not a EE.
 
My wife’s IPad Air draws 10 watts (I think that what the spec read) and the Molex output is 15 watts. Seems to charge well in the aircraft. Are there other devices that 15 watts would not charge it? Could be a consideration for the future but it seems 3 amps @ 5 volts would be plenty. Since most of our portable systems have a one cell battery 5 volts should be optimal to charge but possibly charging a one cell at 12 volts is ok? Obviously I’m not a EE.

I imagine the device would handle 12V properly by converting it to 5V at a higher amperage.
 
No matter which one you choose, take a handheld radio and hold it close to check for RFI. The first one I bought was extremely noisy. The second one was quiet until I held the antenna on it.
 
My wife’s IPad Air draws 10 watts (I think that what the spec read) and the Molex output is 15 watts. Seems to charge well in the aircraft. Are there other devices that 15 watts would not charge it? Could be a consideration for the future but it seems 3 amps @ 5 volts would be plenty. Since most of our portable systems have a one cell battery 5 volts should be optimal to charge but possibly charging a one cell at 12 volts is ok? Obviously I’m not a EE.

Getting technical...

iPads and phones generally have a single-cell battery, with a nominal voltage around 3.7 volts, but the voltage varies in the roughly 3.0-4.2 volt range depending on state of charge. Modern battery-powered devices have a bunch of internal switching power supply circuits that can convert between voltages at very high efficiency (90%+) for all the different internal components. Devices that support fast charge will convert whatever input voltage they can get into the right voltage to charge the battery. A small laptop will have a 2-cell ("7.4" meaning actually 6.0-8.4 volt) battery and be able to charge from anything from 5 to 20 volts, using internal circuitry to convert the voltage.
 
I'll try it

No matter which one you choose, take a handheld radio and hold it close to check for RFI. The first one I bought was extremely noisy. The second one was quiet until I held the antenna on it.

Good input, I'll try and disturb it with a handheld since I've never had to use one in my 14. Pic of the USB in my 14. The 10 panel was given a $ 300 credit for supplying my own USB's and what he was going to use was not Garman or Stratus.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot 2023-08-04 012204.jpg
    Screenshot 2023-08-04 012204.jpg
    17.2 KB · Views: 65
  • USBPanel.jpg
    USBPanel.jpg
    381.8 KB · Views: 109
I've been using an Anker 40-watt charger with dual USB-C ports shoved into the cigarette lighter between the seats for the last year with zero issues. One port to keep my device charged, and the other goes to a Peltier cooler which prevents my devices from thermal-throttling in the sun (screen dims, CPU throttles, charging on hold).

USB-C Power Delivery (PD) negotiation can be complex, as both sides have to communicate and agree what voltage/current is needed. The most recent spec has features such as allowing specifying the exact voltage you need within a 100mV range, and being able to switch the direction of power flow. No-name companies have a history of skimping on parts, which means you're more likely to get a charger with a chipset that is buggy or doesn't support certain voltages.
 
I've been using an Anker 40-watt charger with dual USB-C ports shoved into the cigarette lighter between the seats for the last year with zero issues. One port to keep my device charged, and the other goes to a Peltier cooler which prevents my devices from thermal-throttling in the sun (screen dims, CPU throttles, charging on hold).

USB-C Power Delivery (PD) negotiation can be complex, as both sides have to communicate and agree what voltage/current is needed. The most recent spec has features such as allowing specifying the exact voltage you need within a 100mV range, and being able to switch the direction of power flow. No-name companies have a history of skimping on parts, which means you're more likely to get a charger with a chipset that is buggy or doesn't support certain voltages.

I have found some USB-C devices that don't like all this fancy negotiation, and if you try to use a port that does this, it doesn't charge. :mad: So, best to test on the ground to make sure it will work. The particular device that I had this problem with was the uavionix skyecho 2. Now I keep a "dumb" charger on hand for that device. Thankfully it lasts 12 hours on a charge.
 
Would anyone have thoughts regarding this product (of course, it would need to be tested for radio interference, etc.)?
https://amzn.eu/d/1DsPGbZ
I do apologise for this link refers to a product description in German, couldn't find this very product on the US website, perhaps someone could help out.
It appears tempting to me for its metal case which I hope will help to avoid cooling and EMC issues and for supporting many different PD profiles. This all needs to be proven, of course.
Thanks for your input!
 
I have found some USB-C devices that don't like all this fancy negotiation, and if you try to use a port that does this, it doesn't charge. :mad: So, best to test on the ground to make sure it will work. The particular device that I had this problem with was the uavionix skyecho 2. Now I keep a "dumb" charger on hand for that device. Thankfully it lasts 12 hours on a charge.

Fun fact: If you are designing a device with a USB-C port and all you need is 5v, you can bypass all the negotiation by having a pair of $0.003 resistors across the CC pins. Not saying that the uAvionix product has this problem, but I've had personal experiences with devices (including the controller for an insulin pump) that either through ignorance or extreme cheapness omit these resistors, so they'll only charge with a USB-A brick. This completely violates the USB spec, but you won't see any enforcement unless the manufacturer wants to include the official USB logo on the box.
 
Would anyone have thoughts regarding this product (of course, it would need to be tested for radio interference, etc.)?
https://amzn.eu/d/1DsPGbZ
I do apologise for this link refers to a product description in German, couldn't find this very product on the US website, perhaps someone could help out.
It appears tempting to me for its metal case which I hope will help to avoid cooling and EMC issues and for supporting many different PD profiles. This all needs to be proven, of course.
Thanks for your input!

Similar have worked fine. With the power switch built in, you can wire it to the battery or the bus through its fuse, if you wish.

Put a hanheld radio on 121.5 near it while it is charging a device before installing it to check for RFI/EMI.
 
Would anyone have thoughts regarding this product (of course, it would need to be tested for radio interference, etc.)?
https://amzn.eu/d/1DsPGbZ
I do apologise for this link refers to a product description in German, couldn't find this very product on the US website, perhaps someone could help out.
It appears tempting to me for its metal case which I hope will help to avoid cooling and EMC issues and for supporting many different PD profiles. This all needs to be proven, of course.
Thanks for your input!

I just received this unit. I think it is the same. I will install it around the 20th and will test it then if you can wait that long.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09FFBQ2XR?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
 
Not saying that the uAvionix product has this problem, but I've had personal experiences with devices (including the controller for an insulin pump) that either through ignorance or extreme cheapness omit these resistors

The amusing thing is that the uAvionix docs actually say it supports QC 3.0. So the fact that it doesn't leads me to believe something else was going wrong. Its been on the market for a long time now.. so I'd think they'd either update the docs if they found it to be non-compatible.. or.. fix the circuit.
 
The amusing thing is that the uAvionix docs actually say it supports QC 3.0. So the fact that it doesn't leads me to believe something else was going wrong. Its been on the market for a long time now.. so I'd think they'd either update the docs if they found it to be non-compatible.. or.. fix the circuit.

Here is what's in the skyecho2 docs:

It is important to choose an appropriate power supply and cable to ensure proper charging of SkyEcho.

1. It is recommended for fastest charging that the chosen USB power supply should be compliant with the Quick Charge 3 (QC3) standard. Use one which provides at least 18W. SkyEcho will not adequately charge at less than 2.5 amps.

2. SkyEcho has a high-capacity battery that will permit up to 12 hours of use. It is recommended that, where practical, charging is conducted at least monthly on the power supply until full.

3. Regardless of adapter output, it is not recommended that the SkyEcho be used permanently in-aircraft using a 12V USB adapter as the SkyEcho will consume more power than can be provided by the adapter.

4. While SkyEcho is fitted with a USB-C charging socket, it is not USB PD compliant. USB PD chargers will not properly handshake with and charge the SkyEcho. Instead, use only chargers equipped with USBA output ports, and utilize the supplied USB-A to USB-C cable.

5. Computer USB ports (Mac or PC) cannot deliver sufficient power to charge a SkyEcho.
 
Revisiting this, got to thinking that a aux power outlet (what us old dogs used to call a cigarette lighter plug) with a portable USB plug-in might be more useful than a dedicated USB plug, that way you could plug external power thingys like an air mattress inflator or a heated seat pad or.... into it.

Thoughts?
 
Both

Revisiting this, got to thinking that a aux power outlet (what us old dogs used to call a cigarette lighter plug) with a portable USB plug-in might be more useful than a dedicated USB plug, that way you could plug external power thingys like an air mattress inflator or a heated seat pad or.... into it.

Thoughts?

I fitted both to the panel, one beside the other. Part of my thinking was to also be able to power the panel for testing by plugging 12V power into the cigar lighter rather than use the master and battery. The 12V socket is the same footprint and cutout as the dedicated USB supply, so fitting and appearance worked out just fine.
 
12 volt plug

Revisiting this, got to thinking that a aux power outlet (what us old dogs used to call a cigarette lighter plug) with a portable USB plug-in might be more useful than a dedicated USB plug, that way you could plug external power thingys like an air mattress inflator or a heated seat pad or.... into it.

Thoughts?

Absolutely needed and recommend a 10-amp circuit. The RV-14 wiring harness from Vans actually calls this out (socket 12 volt) and mounted in the tunnel. When we order a panel, we want it to look like technology from this century. Having a cigarette socket in the panel for me just does not feel correct. Maybe just me. The after-market 12-volt socket USBs seem to have a tainted history and so if I can find a good quality panel mount USB at a reasonable price would like to have. (Along with my 12 volt plug in somewhere in the airframe tunnel, baggage area, etc.) is a plus and needed. My portable refrigerator needs this.
 
The amusing thing is that the uAvionix docs actually say it supports QC 3.0. So the fact that it doesn't leads me to believe something else was going wrong. Its been on the market for a long time now.. so I'd think they'd either update the docs if they found it to be non-compatible.. or.. fix the circuit.

Ah, in that case, this behavior makes sense

QC (aka Quick Charge) 3.0 isn't part of the USB standard – it's a leftover from the bad old days of USB-A. There wasn't an official method to have devices negotiate voltage/amperage settings, so Qualcomm created their own. As a result, if you wanted to put QC in a charger, it requires paying licensing fees to Qualcomm (or hoping that the no-name power chip you're using isn't super-buggy), thus not all chargers support it, and why USB-C won't work with it at all. I'm guessing that at the time, the cost of a USB controller which actually supported PD was much higher than ones which didn't have that feature set implemented, thus the odd behavior here.

Unless your charger actually says on the box "Supports QC version <whatever>" and has passed their certification tests, odds are it won't work right. Given that most of the market has moved onto USB-C which handles this via the the USB Power Delivery protocol, new charger designs which even have a USB-A port to begin with usually don't support it, because the choice is either spend $$$ in licensing fees, or run the risk of a lawsuit.
 
Last edited:
Thank you all for your answers. I'm in no hurry at all and can easily wait for your results before ordering.
I also appreciate your approach @crewdog, a 12 VDC outlet is always a good thing to have.
My personal experience with chargers that plug into a cigarette lighter receptacle however, is not a good one. Tried different types in different cars over the past couple of years and found all of them to interfere with or to block out DAB+ broadcast reception. Some of them more, some less but not a single one that didn't harm the reception to some extent. Ok, this is a different frequency range but before I proceed to install any chargers, I'll check them for radiated electromagnetic interferences, probably using a portable spectrum analyser. It may take a couple of months to get to this point, so I hope I'll remember to post the results here.
 
Molex USB testing

No matter which one you choose, take a handheld radio and hold it close to check for RFI. The first one I bought was extremely noisy. The second one was quiet until I held the antenna on it.

Took my handheld radio today to the hangar and when the USB was drawing 1.2 amps (Data from my VPX) listened to several different frequencies and could not hear any static. Power on the USB vs power off broke squelch at the same point. Since my handheld has NAV capability took it up to 5,000 ft and dialed in a VOR with the USB off received a signal from 85 SM, did the same and turned the USB on and still receiving a signal and getting valid data. Unless someone sees something wrong with my test criteria, I think it is ok.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top