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Vans fiberglass parts

Fenderbean

Well Known Member
I have been looking at a lot of build logs and the quality of the fiberglass parts seems really rough. I know this is a kit a we have to learn some things but what im seeing folks have to do for prep is that a normal?
I am familiar with some of the products people are using but thats about it.
 
IMHO, Van’s supplied fiberglass parts are pretty high in quality and require minimal effort to fit and finish. I have no complaints about them.
 
Vans fiberglass

Some are perfect. Some not so much. Depends on the part. I would say most so far have been pretty good. Rudder bottom cap was the only one that needs parts cut off and new glas.
The gray gel coat is far better to finish.
 
Earlier parts were extremely poor. 2001 RV-7 I still have the original emp fairing uninstalled. should you wish to see how poor they were. A friends 14 has very nice FG parts in comparison
 
I would say they are of average quality. I didn't build but i am putting new fairings on after painting my plane. The new tail intersectiom fairing i bought from vans fit so poorly i had to cut off all edges and reglass on new ones.
 
Okay so it sounds like I may have just seen some older build or just people going over the top quality.
I'm trying to learn and educate myself before I start down the path and it seems like the more I see the more I start second guess my decision. I'm guessing most only post the problems they are having so it makes it seem like a pain in the but process.
Cheers!
 
Parts

Okay so it sounds like I may have just seen some older build or just people going over the top quality.
I'm trying to learn and educate myself before I start down the path and it seems like the more I see the more I start second guess my decision. I'm guessing most only post the problems they are having so it makes it seem like a pain in the but process.
Cheers!

There are a few busineses fabricating parts. Usually it's parts that historically don't fit well and upgraded components like the Sam James cowl. Don't be put off by it. Fiberglass work is easy and very forgiving of mistakes. If you don't like a part, cut it off and lay up a new part. Easy peasy.
Compared to other parts of the build, fiberglas is a non issue.
 
Sorry

I have to disagree. I thought the fiberglass work on my -10 cabin top and doors was...well, lacking. I hear they are now better but the pink one I have was adequate at best. The exterior was ok but the interior was not good at all.

Sorry, but for me, that is how it was...YMMV
 
Glasswork is very subjective. If you look at older factory-built planes, they just screwed plastic tips on to the tail & wingtips and they look good from 20 feet away. That's acceptable, but a lot of builders want a seamless transition from metal to tip, and that's difficult to achieve. It's not structural, so you have a lot of leeway there as a builder to decide the standard of finish you want. I'm ok with keeping the tail tips simple this time around, but one thing I will spend time on is the empennage intersection fairing. If those don't fit right, they look horrible. I laid one up from scratch for the RV-3 and hopefully won't have to do the same thing for the 9. But I have a few years before I'll have to worry about it. :D People stress out about the fiberglass on RVs, but I think it's fun because you can cut and shape it without worrying too much about screwing it up. Unlike metal, you can add material to it if you need to.
 
I have to disagree. I thought the fiberglass work on my -10 cabin top and doors was...well, lacking. I hear they are now better but the pink one I have was adequate at best. The exterior was ok but the interior was not good at all.

Sorry, but for me, that is how it was...YMMV

Yep, same here. Many hours of work to get an acceptable level of appearance on the inside of the cabin cover.

Guess I was spoiled with a couple of composite airplanes, albeit certified and pretty expensive in comparison.
 
It would be helpful if posters commenting on the quality of Vans fibreglass components would state what year(s) they purchased them from Vans. My best guess is that Vans has bought their fibreglass components from various subcontractors over the decades so one would expect quality variations. I also suspect their purchase decisions in the past may have been more influenced by price than quality. I bought my RV7A kit components in 2004 and 2005 and at that time the fibreglass parts I received were woeful. I had to do huge amounts of work to bring most of them up to a reasonable standard. One wingtip was so distorted I could not fix it and eventually had to order a new one. Hopefully today the fibreglass parts are better....hopefully.
 
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fiberglass

We purchased James aircraft last month and have started producing parts. I have done Team Rocket cowlings and fairings for almost 20 years and Vince is doing a great job with Team Rocket.
Along with aircraft parts we have made many automotive hoods including a hood for the Cadillac CTS. I have found the automotive market requires a much higher level of finish and fit than the EAB market. I have found what one automotive body shop says is the best hood they have painted was a reshipped hood that another body shop said was junk. Expectations vary.

Empennage fairings are difficult because minor differences in the mounting of the vertical and horizontal stabilizers make a big difference in the fit. And each plane is different.

All of that said, we want to make the best parts possible and welcome feedback on our parts. And I will be happy to answer fiberglass questions anyone has.
 
Fairings

I have a question for anyone as to the discussion about the amount of work required but I am installing the Horizontal stab tips and they both stick out past the elevator tips by 1/4 inch. Is this normal? The diagram in the instructions shows them to be flush. Does anyone have suggestions to the best way to correct this issue? It seems that sanding down the tip where the flange is and making the flange longer so that the tip can be inserted farther would be the best way. Thank you.
 

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Just me

I am there now.
Two things i am doing:
Use a heat gun to warp the fiberglass in to best shape
Use the end cap that you fabricate to hold the shape better.
 
I have a question for anyone as to the discussion about the amount of work required but I am installing the Horizontal stab tips and they both stick out past the elevator tips by 1/4 inch. Is this normal? The diagram in the instructions shows them to be flush. Does anyone have suggestions to the best way to correct this issue? It seems that sanding down the tip where the flange is and making the flange longer so that the tip can be inserted farther would be the best way. Thank you.

I think it's long so you can cut the angle to match the elevator, that's what I did anyway
 
I have a question for anyone as to the discussion about the amount of work required but I am installing the Horizontal stab tips and they both stick out past the elevator tips by 1/4 inch. Is this normal? The diagram in the instructions shows them to be flush. Does anyone have suggestions to the best way to correct this issue? It seems that sanding down the tip where the flange is and making the flange longer so that the tip can be inserted farther would be the best way. Thank you.

With fiberglass, sometimes you have to work them to get the perfect match. The new supply fits better than the older one but they all need some trimming. I posted the picture to suggest where you can trim.

Red Line: Trim so the tip will match to the elevator fairing piece.
Black Lines: Cut the slits along the black lines to allow you to recurve the profile
Green Line: Cut an internal rib from foam (pink foam from HD) to the shape matching to the fairing andwedge it inside the opening. This will force the cap to have the same shape as the fairing. Note: it will be easy after you cut the slits. Fiberglass and sand smooth after micro. You should have a perfect piece. This part is NOT structural so cutting it won't affect strength.
 

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It also depends on which parts you are talking about. The cabin cover, wheel and leg fairings, wingtip fairings, etc for my 2020 vintage kits are excellent. There is some cutting of pieces to fit (doorways, for example, are made with more material and you have to cut everything down to a final fit.

Fitting the doors into the doorways takes a fair amount of work - trimming to get them exactly how you want them. And the curve of the doors didn't exactly match the curve of the cabin cover for me, so I have been gently building up the cabin cover with epoxy and cloth in little bits so that they are aerodynamically in line with each other.

Those are the "finished" parts - some cutting to fit each other, and some filling (like the backside of stabilizer fairings).

The unfinished parts require more work. There are some curved fairings where the landing gear meets the body and wheels where you have to add a few layers of fiberglass cloth to make the final shape of the unfinished pieces match the shape of your parts. These take some time. I've spent maybe 30-40 hours on these four pieces recently. Added small squares of soaked cloth while cleco'd in place, then I removed the fairings and added bigger pieces of cloth on a workbench, then I added three layers of epoxy mixed with micro and cab, which I massaged in place with gloved hands. Then hours and hours sanding the rough shapes smooth, filling in the small bubbles and low points with more epoxy, sand, fill, sand, fill, sand, fill. Almost done now - I'm finishing with (so far) 4 layers of a sandable filler primer to really smooth them out. Then will sand again.

Similar story to how you have to build your own fairing from scratch where the lower edge of the windshield meets the top of the front of the plane. 10 layers of fiberglass cloth in various widths, then several layers of epoxy "mud", with lots and lots and lots of hand sanding to get the curve right.

Bottom line is that you will become an expert on fiberglass work. While there aren't a lot of pieces made of glass, some take a LOT of time. Far more than I expected. But, done right, they can look beautiful and can have curves and fit that you can never get from metal.
 
... While there aren't a lot of pieces made of glass, some take a LOT of time. Far more than I expected. But, done right, they can look beautiful and can have curves and fit that you can never get from metal.

+1

Don't underestimate the time. You can't rush the time required for the epoxy to cure for example. In the cold weather, epoxy take more time to cure but the advantage is you have a lot more time to work the part. Also, a lot of sanding is a part of the fiberglass work. If you can do the sanding outside the yard instead of inside the shop, it will reduce the amount of dust.
 
Curing in winter

+1

Don't underestimate the time. You can't rush the time required for the epoxy to cure for example. In the cold weather, epoxy take more time to cure but the advantage is you have a lot more time to work the part. Also, a lot of sanding is a part of the fiberglass work. If you can do the sanding outside the yard instead of inside the shop, it will reduce the amount of dust.

Now that winter is here, it is time to do my fiberglass.
I can do the stuff during the day in a heated area and can maintain about 65F.
but at night it is going to go down to the 40's while curing.

Do i need to build a tent and leave a heater on overnight for the fiberglass to cure properly, or will it be OK if it has 4 hours at 65 and then gets colder?

This is all non structural fairings.
 
My hangar has a heater that keeps it at 57 degrees F minimum.

Winter has been late in coming to Colorado this year, but it is finally cooling off. I'm working on those intersection fairings and some other stuff and I'm making epoxy almost every day. I shifted a couple of weeks ago from West slow to West fast hardener. For what I'm doing (one or two squirts at a time from the pumps), fast has plenty of pot time for me, even with cab and micro, at these lower temperatures. I can't tell you the exact curing time, but it does cure well at 57 degrees. I do my work each evening and when I come back the next day, 20-22 hours later, everything is fully cured and ready for the next filling or sanding.
 
Now that winter is here, it is time to do my fiberglass.
I can do the stuff during the day in a heated area and can maintain about 65F.
but at night it is going to go down to the 40's while curing.

Do i need to build a tent and leave a heater on overnight for the fiberglass to cure properly, or will it be OK if it has 4 hours at 65 and then gets colder?

This is all non structural fairings.

At the moment, my fiberglass takes over 12 hours to partially cure. Micro takes at least 24 hours before it can be sanded or else your sandpaper get gummed up (sign that the micro isn't 100% cured). For small parts, once they are partially cured to the point I could remove them from the molding surface and the parts kept their shapes, I brought them inside the house to speed up the curing. When I was working on the windscreen fairing, I had no choice but to wait for the epoxy to cure in the cold garage.
 
Cure

Now that winter is here, it is time to do my fiberglass.
I can do the stuff during the day in a heated area and can maintain about 65F.
but at night it is going to go down to the 40's while curing.

Do i need to build a tent and leave a heater on overnight for the fiberglass to cure properly, or will it be OK if it has 4 hours at 65 and then gets colder?

This is all non structural fairings.

It will cure eventually but a heater will help.
I set the heater on medium (750 watts). It doesn't cook the whole garage, but it does warm parts.
My canopy skirt and windshield trim were done in cold with the heater at night.
If a part can be moved, I put it somewhere warm.
 
Depends entirely on which epoxy and hardener you're using. Everything is better if you can work at 75F. Low viscosity is a big deal for wet-out.

Avoid combustion heaters. Puts a lot of water in the air.

You could just move to south Alabama. I'm shooting Poly Brush and Poly Spray today...outdoors. ;)
 
Depends entirely on which epoxy and hardener you're using. Everything is better if you can work at 75F. Low viscosity is a big deal for wet-out.

Avoid combustion heaters. Puts a lot of water in the air.

You could just move to south Alabama. I'm shooting Poly Brush and Poly Spray today...outdoors. ;)

Quit bragging……. it was 63 today in Cincinnati. I rode my motor scooter around the airport, and laid up some glass today too. Of course, this won’t last long in Ohio. I heat my hangar during the day with a propane hog barn heater to about 62*, and it cools off overnight to about 40* on cold nights, so my epoxy may need 2 days to cure. Fast hardener is better this time of year. ProSet wets out cloth much better than normal west system epoxy, especially when is colder, but both work well if given enough time. I think the ProSet is structural, but that isn’t a necessary quality in most of what I do on my RV.
 
How much finishing work do people usually do on the interior of the RV-10 cabin cover? Obviously, if the intent is to only paint the inside, a lot of finish work would be required. If one intends to install a headliner, how much filling/smoothing is really necessary?
 
I did a lot, and then buried it

I was undecided at the time, so made it properly smooth and painted it before installing it. It was quite a bit of time making all the curves smooth and building up with Micro.

By the end of the build, I had added a overhead console and used the South Florida headliner which would have covered everything, and I could have done nothing...

The headliner has a 1/4" foam base which covers all sins.....
 

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I was undecided at the time, so made it properly smooth and painted it before installing it. It was quite a bit of time making all the curves smooth and building up with Micro.

By the end of the build, I had added a overhead console and used the South Florida headliner which would have covered everything, and I could have done nothing...

The headliner has a 1/4" foam base which covers all sins.....

Do you think you added significant weight doing the smooting?
 
I was undecided at the time, so made it properly smooth and painted it before installing it. It was quite a bit of time making all the curves smooth and building up with Micro.

By the end of the build, I had added a overhead console and used the South Florida headliner which would have covered everything, and I could have done nothing...

The headliner has a 1/4" foam base which covers all sins.....

I can't find the South Florida headliner on their web site. Do they still make it? they show every other piece of wall/floor covering except the headliner on the site. There's kind of a hint of a headliner in the pictures of their overhead console.
 
I can't find the South Florida headliner on their web site. Do they still make it? they show every other piece of wall/floor covering except the headliner on the site. There's kind of a hint of a headliner in the pictures of their overhead console.

Give Eliane a call. She’ll give you more information and pictures than you’ll know what to do with. I found them one of the best vendors I have dealt with over 3 planes and almost 20y. All the more impressive given the difference in time zones.
 
Do you think you added significant weight doing the smooting?


Sorry for the tardy response. It's a dry micro so not too much wieght most of the quantity went into was smoothing the curves behind the doors. Most of the penalty was time building up and sanding since it took me a few tries to get it looking decent. I didn't take any before and after weights.

Derek
 
I can't find the South Florida headliner on their web site. Do they still make it? they show every other piece of wall/floor covering except the headliner on the site. There's kind of a hint of a headliner in the pictures of their overhead console.

For sure they still make it. I'll second the suggestion to give them a call. They've done a lot of planes so have pictures of any configuration I could think of.
 
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