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  #11  
Old 11-27-2022, 05:30 PM
Ed_Wischmeyer's Avatar
Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
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Location: Savannah, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanzatom View Post
Excellent report Ed. I think you covered all your bases. Had this happened to me, I would have been concerned about the engine driven fuel pump failing, but because the chance of that happening also is slim, I too would have pressed on.
You jogged my memory… when I was load shedding, I looked at the aux fuel pump and said that I didn’t need it (in cruise) and never revisited that decision. There’s a term for failing to reconsider, and that has contributed to accidents.

Also, I didn’t do the landing checklist.

I’ll claim stress as an alibi. Wish I’d handled things better…
__________________
RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual G3X Touch with autopilot, GTN650, GTX330ES, GDL52 ADSB-In)
Previously RV-4, RV-8, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up

Last edited by Ed_Wischmeyer : 11-27-2022 at 05:33 PM.
  #12  
Old 11-27-2022, 06:40 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 6,090
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First off, you handled it well. No good plan survives contact with the enemy, and you learned a lot from it and will probably modify your planning.

Suggestions....
1) A backup alternator on the vacuum pad.
2) Determine your "load shed" minimum power consumption for continued flight - then during annual inspection use a combination of lights/pitot heat/screens/whatever to come to that same load - and test your ships battery to see how much time it will give you under load-shed conditions. That's a good number to have in the back of your head.

I've had to put my plane down twice with partial engine power - once in beautiful VFR and once in 400' ceilings - it is definitely an attention getter and will make you think. I've only dropped an alternator in flight once, and in that case I just brought the backup online and continued to the destination.
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2023 dues paid
N16GN flying 1,250 hrs and counting on 91E10; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, IFD440, G5
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
Repeat Offender - 10 empennage in process.
  #13  
Old 11-27-2022, 06:51 PM
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9GT 9GT is offline
 
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Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 2,317
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What alternator are you using Ed?
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Howell, MI
RV-10: #41686 Under Construction/Sold 2021
RV-9A: #90949 Under Construction
RV-10: #40637 Completed/Sold 2016
Cozy MKIV:#656 Completed/Sold 2007
"Donor Exempt" but donated through Dec. 2023
  #14  
Old 11-27-2022, 07:17 PM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 4,026
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Alternator failure is the most probable electrical fault we face, but certainly does not present the most severe outcome if some thought goes into battery selection, power distribution design and periodic maintenance.

I suggest you establish a minimum battery capacity to meet your mission. For me this is 2.5 hours of full IFR flight on only battery power. Once you have set this design goal create the POH emergency procedures to achieve that goal then test to verify you have, and continue to meet that goal.

Some rules I have to support (not inclusive, just examples):
- Never launch after a jump start. You most likely have a degraded battery, and you will absolutely have a battery below full capacity. Replace any abused battery (e.g left the master on).
- Never assume just adding an aux alternator addresses all the electrical faults that can make your panel go dark. Add redundancy to your design. How much depends on your mission goals and risk tolerance.
- If you are depending on back up batteries for avionics or an electrically dependent engine, test them. I found a flat electronic ignition backup battery in an RV (dual ship power dependent electronic ignitions). The only reason this engine did not fail in flight was blind luck that the primary power did not go away.

Carl
  #15  
Old 11-27-2022, 07:36 PM
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dmattmul dmattmul is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 568
Default Nice write-up, thanks !

This my electrical display on the G3X. Any thoughts on adding a master warning (Red alarm) or master caution (Yellow alarm) to a led in plain sight on the panel? (Future RV-10 in progress)
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RV-14A QB builds (2017), Lycoming 390 Thunderbolt arrived July 2019, Garmin avionics, Vertical Power, EFII-32 Ignition and Fuel, Whirlwind 300-72, Earth-X batteries, Beringer wheels and brakes, Parts became real airplane 8/15/2020. Started RV-10 Nov 2020. Empennage arrived (Built) Working on QB kits. Garmin avionics, Vertical Power, EFII-32 Ignition and Fuel, Whirlwind 3 blade HRT 378, Earth-X batteries, Beringer wheels and brakes, real airplane hopefully early-mid 2024. Paid subscriber
  #16  
Old 11-27-2022, 08:18 PM
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Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmattmul View Post
Any thoughts on adding a master warning (Red alarm) or master caution (Yellow alarm) to a led in plain sight on the panel? (Future RV-10 in progress)
I've been employed by companies in the jet airframe industry and have researched master caution and master warning lights, alerting systems in general, and observed how pilots react to them in simulator training.

Master warning means, "you need to know about this right now and do something about it right now." Master caution means, "You have to know about this right now but you don't have to handle it right now." Not sure that difference is as distinct as it might be.

And it's also interesting that pilots seem to respond to the aural alarm (same for both cases) by pushing both buttons, and then reading text on the CAS (Crew Alerting System, or similar) to see what the problem is.

All of which is to say, I've never seen the point of having warning and caution lights separate when they are treated so similarly.

And on one contemporary business jet that I know a little bit about, there are something like 900 CAS message, the majority of which are not taught and are not in the POH. Hmm.

As for the G3X Touch display that shows the voltage and amps, the engine display, that's standard G3X, although it appears you have two of each.

And if there's an LED display, then there are issues of dimming at night. And the Garmin connectors and strain relief and all that are beyond my desire to mess with them. Plus, all the avionics shops have more business than they can handle, and my requests for 3 of 4 wires added have gone nowhere.

All of which is to say that the G3X Touch screen messages work just fine for me, at least, as I now know by first hand experience.
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RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual G3X Touch with autopilot, GTN650, GTX330ES, GDL52 ADSB-In)
Previously RV-4, RV-8, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up
  #17  
Old 11-27-2022, 08:40 PM
moosepileit moosepileit is offline
 
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Location: Louisville, KY
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I fly a jet where you only hit the master warning during an engine fire to "silence the bell". System cue switches will illuminate and you bring up that expanded system page to reset the master and begin to handle the issue. We have a QRH, all the situations you can get are in it.

There is a reminder section on the bottom of the main engine display to help act as electronic referee when multiple plates are up spinnimg on sticks.

There are extra details in many issues in the aircraft ops manual, and a consequences cue page can get you down if you can't crack open the books.

I'm biased, as I teach it, but I like the logic.
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  #18  
Old 11-27-2022, 08:40 PM
BoydBirchler BoydBirchler is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Indianapolis
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It would be interesting to know what brand and model alternator is installed and what failed in the alternator.

PS: I have had many instrument failures, vacuum pump failures and a few alternator failures while single engine IFR (with no standby alternator or extra battery). All failures were noted quickly and the offending instruments were covered or in the case of alternator failure the ships battery lasted hours because of load shedding and early attention.
  #19  
Old 11-27-2022, 11:19 PM
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rv7boy rv7boy is offline
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I had an unplanned landing to an airport many years ago due to an engine problem (dropped an exhaust valve on an O-320). I was able to fly about 15 miles on three cylinders and didn’t get the “knee shakes” until I shut down.

I beat myself up for several days wondering what I could have done better.

Then a friend (an old Air Force pilot) made me feel better by saying there must have been at least five ways to get that airplane on the ground and I found one of them!

So congratulate yourself and learn from the experience.
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it is a change that goes on, deep and permanent, in the ideas of living." Miriam Beard
  #20  
Old 11-28-2022, 08:41 AM
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Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
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Pleasant phone call and email (below) from the FAA. They’re just doing their follow up. The lady who called is from the maintenance side. I’ll pull the cowling later today and see if there’s something obvious.

The following notification by the Regional Operations Center was received by the ATL FSDO: SAVANNAH, GA (SAV): N7152Y, RV9A, REPORTED ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS AND CONTINUED TO SAV. LANDED WITHOUT INCIDENT. 11/26/2022 1727Z
In order to close the occurrence, we are requesting the following information:
1. A signed written statement of events from the Pilot in Command (PIC)
2. A copy front and back of the PIC’s airman certificate with current medical
3. A copy of the maintenance record entry returning the aircraft to service
I can be reached by email with any questions.
__________________
RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual G3X Touch with autopilot, GTN650, GTX330ES, GDL52 ADSB-In)
Previously RV-4, RV-8, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up
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