What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Longeron Bends

randyintejas

randyintejas

Well Known Member
Yep.. I read all the post and checked out as many builder sites as possible. Fear Not, I still made it as hard as possible!! Yes I got it done and yes it matches the skin line, still not sure about the 17deg twist on the end but form what I understand it can be tweaked latter.
So, I?m going to say this so that others don?t feel so bad. IT TOOK ME TWO (that?s right 2) DAYS to COMPLETE! I see where other did it in two hours or 20 min? Ha I spent 2 hours just cleaning up one from all the dang marks I put in it so.. top that! Well it?s done and over so I can now get back to joining the aft and center fuse sections. Carry on
 
randyintejas said:
Yep.. I read all the post and checked out as many builder sites as possible. Fear Not, I still made it as hard as possible!! Yes I got it done and yes it matches the skin line, still not sure about the 17deg twist on the end but form what I understand it can be tweaked latter.
So, I?m going to say this so that others don?t feel so bad. IT TOOK ME TWO (that?s right 2) DAYS to COMPLETE! I see where other did it in two hours or 20 min? Ha I spent 2 hours just cleaning up one from all the dang marks I put in it so.. top that! Well it?s done and over so I can now get back to joining the aft and center fuse sections. Carry on
Click to expand...

You know, I love builder sites but sometimes I think their proliferation puts too much pressure on the builder. Take whatever time you need to complete it. If it's 2 hours, 2 days, 2 months.

For me, personally, this process allowed me to discover the neat song a longeron thrown across the garage can make. Might've taken my two days.
 
You nailed it!

You nailed it Bob.... mine took about 2 days after contemplating 2 days before starting.

Look how relaxed you are with that answer now that you are done and flying Phase I time!
 
Ha

It took me two sets! The first set I bent perfectly and made a drill error on the front engine mount brackets. Set two took me 3 hours to bend up and match drill, practice does make perfect:(
 
I didn't track the time, just made sure it was done right. In the end, like many other parts of the build so far, it wasn't as bad as I feared, having read everyone's comments on it. I ordered an extra length of longeron angle with my wing kit in case I messed one up, but didn't end up needing it. Come to think of it, if anyone near KS needs it I'm sure we can work something out. I hear shipping a single 17' long stick of extrusion is kinda expensive.
 
I had the very nice assistance of a previous builder to help with that bending step. I would have been WAY too timid.

I did all the measuring and marking beforehand.
We clamped it in a vice (bolted to a very heavy table) and bashed the **** out of it with a big dead blow hammer while he pulled in the right direction. They came out perfect. It was only a few minutes per piece.

I was thrilled. Use that resource as much as you can. It will make "big" jobs easy.
 
longeron dies

What?? You don't like the Fred Flintstone method???

Me either. I developed a set of male and female bending dies that evenly apply pressure to the horizontal and the vertical flanges of the angle. This greatly reduces the tendancy to twist, and gives great control over the process.

To use these dies, place a strip of electrical tape on the vertical flange to protect it from the pressure points, apply pressure with the vise, release pressure, pull out an inch or so and repeat.


these are cnc made out of 1.25" square 6061. They were made specifically for the RV7 / 9 airplanes.


http://www.bullerent.com/experimental.htm
 
Don Jones said:
Yep, like $60 for the angle and $200 shipping, ouch
Click to expand...

I'm glad I didn't know that when I bent mine years ago! More pressure!

I was convinced though I was going to find a machine shop somewhere to bend them for me. Turns out I took maybe a couple of hours to do them myself. Just another one of those butt puckering operations that Vans sprinkles in along the way. I guess I can finally claim victory on the longeron bends now that I'm flying!
 
Wish I'd have known about these dies before I did mine. I ruined my bench vice with all the cave-man work. The heavy pounding literally broke the base. But I got 'em done. Persistence definitely pays off.
 
NDrv8r said:
What?? You don't like the Fred Flintstone method???

Me either. I developed a set of male and female bending dies that evenly apply pressure to the horizontal and the vertical flanges of the angle. This greatly reduces the tendancy to twist, and gives great control over the process.
Click to expand...

I used Larry's longeron dies and they came out great with little fuss and I'll use them again if I get the chance. I later used them as drill guides for the rear spar. Just the right size.

IMG_2092.JPG
 
dies

I don't think the dies will work on the 8.

It looks like there is little bending as the longeron passes the cockpit, just the sharp bend down and twist as it passes forward of the cockpit towards the firewall.

The die set I make is for the gentle bend as the longerons go around the 7 and 9 cockpit.

I have not personally evaluated the 8, but if someone wants to try it, I'd be glad to refund the cost of the dies (less shipping) if they dont work.
 
"What?? You don't like the Fred Flintstone method???"

Yep.. used them on the first one. I was one of the 1st to purchase and it marked up the angle so bad that I did not use it on the 2nd longeron.
 
"these are cnc made out of 1.25" square 6061. They were made specifically for the RV7 / 9 airplanes."

Made by whom? Did you design them and have a one off set made, or are they available somewhere?

If you designed them and had them made, could you give the rest of us a few hints, like the radius of the bend that is machined into the dies, overall length, etc.

Thanks for any light you can shed.
 
Update.. I really don’t like to trash anyone’s product until I know the problem is not me! So, I purchased another set of Larry’s Dies and yes, a new set of Longerons. I found them local (the angle) for a lot less but, I wanted to compare Vans material so, I paid the price. If you really must know it was $244 for shipping. The price you pay to experiment I guess. Anyway the first thing I noticed was the difference in the angle stock from Vans. The new stock is just slightly thinner and that allowed the new dies to fit perfect! I tried to put the new dies on the old Longerons and no dice; I would have to get out the Dremel to make them fit. So now I know why the old dies marked up the first longeron so bad. I decided to go-ahead and bend one of the new angles with one of the new dies so, I marked it all off (including the 1 inch marks), electrical taped the dies and covered the dies in dry lubricant. You guessed it.. a perfect bend! While bending I made sure to keep the dies will lubed and cranked light on the vice, checking the pattern as I went. Also I started bending at the first inch mark and stoped ½ inch before the end mark. I hope this helps someone and I can now say Larry’s product works great if the angle fits.
 
Last edited:
shipping

Wow, $244 for shipping. That is $1.00 more than my whole wing kit cost to ship to Colorado.
 
messed mine up at the end

I had the Orndorff method and the longeron Dies from Buller. First i tried the dies, but they did not fit. I called the contact number and the gentleman i talked to asked me to send it back and he will fix. Not wanting to wait, I then proceeded to use the Orndorff method for my longeron bend. It worked great. I had the bend, the bend down, and then I was very happy because it was not as hard as everyone said, then I messed up the drill. :mad: :mad::mad: I somehow, messed up the left and right ordering, wrong labeling, then wrong drilling and trimming at the aft end side of the longeron. How much was it ???? about $300-$400 including shipping? ouch.
 
Randy, since you used the dies recently as you described, can you tell me where did you start the bend, how did you progress or move the dies, by 1/2 inch, etc... I have the dies but ended up using the orndorff method. i messed up the longerons during drilling at the aft end so i will order new ones. I would like to use the dies this time around, so any tips will be great.
 
tight fitting angle

3/4" angle is nominally .125 thick. We size the die slot at .135.

It has come to my attention that some of the material that Vans is sending out is actually .140 thick. For anyone that has purchased my dies, I will gladly exchange your dies with ones that have a .145 slot.

Try to push one flange of the material into the slot. if it is tight before bending or you have any questions, please send me an email at [email protected]
 
“Randy, since you used the dies recently as you described, can you tell me where did you start the bend, how did you progress or move the dies, by 1/2 inch, etc...”

On the -7 the bend is made between 38 7/16 and 69 9/32. I marked one inch marks between the above measurements and started the bend at one inch from the aft measurement and worked my way forward checking with the template every 3rd inch mark are so. Warning.. It takes very little pressure on the vice! Remember, its slight gradual curve. You can way over bend with the dies so go easy. The dies do not blindly make a perfect bend for you; they just keep you from using a hammer and fix the twisting problem. Also remember too not bend the angle outside of the given bend measurements. One other thing.. I marked the center of both dies so to keep a perfect alignment.

Good luck with your project sir!

This is my story and how it worked for me…
 
Last edited:
Just in case I mess up on my first attempt....

Is there anything 'special' about the angle from Vans? Just in case I need to buy some locally? I buy a LOT of steel from a huge local metal company. They sell all types of aluminum too. If I can buy a few sticks locally, in case I screw up the angle in the kits, I'd like to buy the same type.

Surely Vans isn't custom extruding a special proprietary angle?

I sure don't plan on making a mistake, but just in case....

Thanks.
 
Just standard 6061-T6 3/4 x 3/4 x 1/8 structural aluminum angle. Just don't use any of the radius-less houshold stuff from the hardware store, though that is handy for jigging.
 
Longeron bends

I spent an evening measuring twice. The next evening I remeasured and made the bends. Repeated the process making sure that I don't have two left longerons, which I almost did.
 
I'm surely hoping that I do NOT need any further longeron material, other than what the kit provides. I was just looking ahead in case I made some mistake. I called my steel and alloy supplier today and he didn't stock it. But he made a suggestion: Metal Supermarket. They have locations all over the country, and sell material of all types and sizes by the foot. I called them, and if I need it, they stock it.

So as an FYI to anyone who may need longeron material, or any other alloy, Metal Supermarket seems to fit the bill. It's sold by the foot, and may seem a tad high priced on the surface. However, with so many locations, it appears they are convenient to a lot of us, and there are NO high-dollar shipping charges (like having this stuff sent in from Oregon). Plus if they have a location close to you, you can get it the day you need it versus waiting on FedEx. Hopefully I don't need anything further, but perhaps this info helps someone who may.
 
A little off topic from the last couple posts... I just got the dies from Larry Buller yesterday (2days after I placed the order). I tried them out on a scrap angle & they worked like a charm. I tend to buy convenience tools when I see them and probably won't actually need them for a bit. But from what I can tell, these things are a liFe saver over the vice & hammer method.
 
Last edited:
Daniel S. said:
A little off topic from the last couple posts... I just got the dies from Larry Buller yesterday (2days after I place the order). I tried them out on a scrap angle & they worked like a charm. I tend to buy convenience tools when I see them and probably won't actually need them for a bit but from what I can tell, these things are a live saver over the vice & hammer method.
Click to expand...

I thinking and hoping the same! This weekend it's time for the test!
 
Like Miles said pretty standard stuff. The problem is that 3/4" is tough to find. I found a few places around the country that had it but the shipping is what kills you. As I was about to give up looking I found Alro Metals had it in stock. 2 miles away and $17.
There are alot of the Alro Metals locations around.
Don't ask how I know all this.
OK I will tell you. I spent too much time reading others problems. If I had just followed the directions I would have been good. I drilled the side rail in the wrong position and when I moved it to the correct position and drilled it left me with too many holes that would have weakened the piece.
 
Last edited:
Followed George Orndorff

I followed Orndorff method, got done in less than 30 minutes. :) Then somehow mixed up the right and left and then proceeded to do the drilling. Ouch. Had to order another set. I actually ordered two sets because shipping was ridiculous. Second set, got done and i used the third set for spare parts. So, if you need to do it simple way, follow Orndorff method.
 
longeron material

should anyone need to get replacement longerons, look at your local steel supplier. Order the 6061 T6 (or T651) , 3/4x3/4 x 1/8 as previously stated. The advantage of ordering through you local steel supplier is that they have trucks coming in frequently and shipping is minimal and paid for mostly by the guys that are shipping tons of steel.

You do need to inspect it carefully though for scratches any way you ship it. I think the standard lengths are 24 ft??? Shipping an individual 24 ft long shipment by truck is going to cost an arm and a leg plus they will probably ruin it any how.
 
Longerons

I bought two extra sticks of the longeron material last week as a safety blanket, so if I messed up on my first attempt this weekend, I wouldn't be stuck until I could buy more material. Metal Supermarket in Fort Worth, $23.00 total and of course no shipping.

I used Larry's dies and the entire process was completed in about three hours. As others have said, just measure about 10-times on everything, take it very slowly, and use the templates included with your kit. I found the entire process to be extremely enjoyable! The dies made this work extremely easy and my Longerons fit perfectly, and the side skins match and fit great too!

So if anyone in DFW needs any longeron material, I'm your emergency supplier! To those about to start bending your longeron material, like others have said, it's NO big deal. And it's fun because when you're done you get to cleco on the side skins. When you have side skins you have a fuselage that actually resembles an airplane. When you have a mock airplane in your shop, you have something you can now sit in- and make airplane noises :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top