Need Info on Whirlwind Ground Adjustable Propeller

Thanks Doug for the info on the group buy!

But I don't know anything about the prop. I looked at their site to get some info. I saw from a previous discussion last year that this prop is new but I can't find any info on how it performs on a RV (most interested in IO360). Has anyone installed one on their plane yet. If so how does it perform compared to the others generally used on a RV.

Also I would like your pros and cons on using a ground adjustable prop.

Thanks all, I am hoping your input will help me decide if I want to join the group buy or stay with my planned Catto purchase.

Sorry no PIREP, but...

I don't know anything about the GA prop but I did email Whirlwind this morning because I wanted to know how the blade pitch angle is set. For anyone interested, here is the email reponse I recieved.

Question from me: "Hi, What is the process for aligning the blade angles? Are the blades and hub indexed in some way? Special tools needed? Thanks for your time."

Answer:

Hi Brian,

Thank you for your email. The GA200L comes with a blade tool to set the blade angle that is used your own angle finder to set the pitch precisely as needed for your motor. Below is our general description email (not sure if I have already sent it to you). Please let me know if you have any other questions.

The GA200L-716 propeller from Whirl Wind is a two-blade ground adjustable pitch propeller system. This propeller is designed for the Lycoming 320 and 360 engines with 7/16? bolts. We offer an optional 2.25" spacer/adapter as well as an 13" RV style composite spinner.

GA200L-716 Propeller

Number of Blades: 2

Diameter: 72"

Blade color: Black with white Tip stripes

Pitch adjustment range: Infinite

Blade Design: The Whirl Wind GA200L-716 blades are the same blades flying in the proven Whirl Wind 200RV constant speed propeller. This propeller has been optimized for the RV series of aircraft taking into account hp,

speed range and other factors such as fuselage and cowling shape. Flight test has verified unbeatable performance.

Blade Construction: Whirl Wind's GA blades are constructed from aerospace

thermo set composite materials, and are equipped with a full length electro-formed nickel leading edge for unparalleled durability and precise fit. These GA200L-716 blades are light and durable, and are suitable for flying in rain and from unimproved airstrips. (continued on with website info) [end quote]

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Wow

That is a Lot of Propellor for the money. I love my CS version. When you are on the ground with the plane overhead, you don't even hear the prop, only the engine. For me the sweet spot in cruise is 2500 RPM.

Hans

Very Interested

I've always thought the ground adjustable was a great compromise to allow tuning for a specific mission without the expense/weight of a CS (don't get me wrong, i'd like to have a CS too).

What is the actual experience with being able to change pitch on the ground.? Regardless of aircraft or engine.

I bought one of the first ones and then returned it.

The prop, hub, and spinner looked great! The way of setting the angle doesn't look difficult and in the end, I thought the prop looked great.

The problem I had was that at that time (about two months ago), they only offered the prop with 7/16" bolts. My O-360 and I believe most O-360's are set up for 1/2" bolts. Their recommendation was to have Saber Mfg make a special hub (which they are more than willing to do) that has 1/2" bolts on the engine hub and 7/16" bolts on the prop.

While this may work, and most engineers I have spoken to said it will work just fine, my feeling was that Lycoming must have gone to the large bolts for some reason and I didn't want to be the person to find out why.

Thus I returned the prop and spinner to them and ordered a Catto.

I'm still really bummed about this as I really wanted that prop.

As for why I ordered a prop in the first place with the wrong size bolts, well...

I ordered it through American Propellers and they thought it had 1/2" bolts, both Sam at Saber MFG and I spoke to them and they said it would come with 1/2" bolts but when it arrived, they were 7/16" bolts so back it went.

dbuds2 said:

I've always thought the ground adjustable was a great compromise to allow tuning for a specific mission without the expense/weight of a CS (don't get me wrong, i'd like to have a CS too).

What is the actual experience with being able to change pitch on the ground.? Regardless of aircraft or engine.

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IMO, it's still going to be a compromise because removing the spinner, let alone partial disassembly of the prop is............time consuming!

I'm willing to bet that at some point, the prop will just stay somewhere in a close range between climb and cruise. There will be no advantage of a real constant speed when it comes to operation.

You'll never have it set to takeoff (fine pitch) at full power because it will be too slow in cruise. . You won't be able to pull the RPM's back like I do, which makes for a much more comfortable rumble in cruise. Since the compromised prop is still going to be somewhere in the middle, it's not going to work for the excellent braking ability that C/S's are known for either.

The REAL advantage I see, is not having thoughts of sending the prop back for a re-pitch when RPMs are too high at cruise, or not enough RPM's for takeoff power. It's just not going to compare to the full range that's available with a C/S in flight.

L.Adamson --- RV6A

Sign me up

Although I love my wood Ted Hendrickson (all three of them), I am very interested in this prop. It allows fine tuning to adjust for your normal mission profile. Pitch can be adjusted if engine performance gains or airframe drag reductions are made. While IMO it is not, 'nor trying to be, a constant speed prop, it simply combines; modern composite technology, sexy looks, an efficient, proven blade design, low maintenence and rain protection. It has no unreasonable RPM or aerobatic restrictions...and the pitch is infinitely adjustable! I'll take one.

Spinner Decision

Thanks for the feed back.

Is the Whrilwind spinner required or will my brand new Vans FP-13 spinner kit work?

Bill R. did you order the 2 or 3 blade Catto? How long before delivery?

49clipper

Has anyone flown with this prop on an RV? Interested to know the actual performance. I have no problems with my Sensenich, except out west, takeoffs are somewhat sluggish when hot and high. I wonder if the new blade design will make for a better cruise speed at the same pitch.
Jim

Whirlwind-vs-Whirl Wind

Just discovered two sites, Whirlwind: http://www.whirlwindpropellers.com/ga/index.html/
And Whirl Wind: http://www.whirlwindaviation.com/

Are they all the 200 RV blades? Are they different companies? Has anyone used the Whirlwind Propeller props?

WHIRLWIND PROPELLERS

All the Whirlwind propellers are manufactured in San Diego. The airboat props are sold direct from San Diego, the aircraft propellers are sold by whirlwind aviation in Ohio.
Regarding the 1/2" bolts, the loads on the bolts with the whirlwind are a small fraction of the loads imposed by a fixed pitch metal or c/s with metal blades.

dbuds2 said:

Thanks for the feed back.

Is the Whrilwind spinner required or will my brand new Vans FP-13 spinner kit work?

Bill R. did you order the 2 or 3 blade Catto? How long before delivery?

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While you could use the Van's spinner, I would go with the WW because it is just SOOOoooo NICE!

The twin blade Catto prop and spinner took a little less than two months to show up at my door. Craig is developing metal leading edges for his new props and I'll send this prop back when the plane goes in the paint shop to have them installed.

jrs14855 said:

...Regarding the 1/2" bolts, the loads on the bolts with the whirlwind are a small fraction of the loads imposed by a fixed pitch metal or c/s with metal blades.

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You are correct, the loads on the bolts are not that great but I couldn't get past thinking that there must have been a reason why Lycoming and the prop manufactures went to 1/2" bolts.

I was very disappointed when the prop arrived as it looked great and I really wanted to fly behind it. However, I couldn't get myself to do something that in my mind was just not ?right? and going from a large bolt on the engine to small ones on the prop was one of those things that in my mind is not ?right?. Going from Small bolts on the engine to large ones on the prop would have been fine.

Just my opinion.

A quick note here from a user of a ground-adjustable prop. Mine's a Warp Drive 3-bladed on a non-RV, running a Continental engine. While this may seem worlds away from the Whirlwind discussion, the fact that it's still a ground adjustable prop is very germaine to the discussion.

What I've discovered with the Warp Drive is that it takes longer to adjust the pitch than you would think. I've used both the Warp Drive prop protractor (which is a terribly simple, wonderfully accurate device) and a digital protractor to set blade pitch, and I can say within certainty that setting pitch accurately with the Warp takes a little finness, but once you've acquired the skill it's not difficult to do. Plan on it taking an hour to change pitch with a Warp as one has to safety-wire the prop bolts once done.

In my case I found that I had to optimize the prop pitch over the course of several test flights. Started out far too coarse and through four or five adjustments I got it down to a good compromise. Takeoff roll was increased but cruise was also increased, and surprisingly, climb was also increased. The Warp props are not that great at delivering static thrust so takeoff roll from a standing start suffers.

The prop pitch seems to be right for my airplane, and as a result I haven't re-adjusted it in three years. If I had to adjust it to get out of a hole then I would, but generally the concept of pulling the spinner, readjusting the prop, torquing the bolts, safety-wiring the bolts and re-attaching the spinner just doesn't hold much appeal. Especially since I know that in a few hours I'll have to do the whole deal all over again.

I suspect that when it comes to ground-adjustable props the Sensenich and the IVO props have the best adjustment systems, or at least the fastest and easiest. Still, one needs tools to accomplish the task, more tools than I generally am willing to carry.

Just Tried the Whirlwind ground adjustable

Just tired my new Ground adjustable Whirlwind propeller on my 0-320 Rv-9. Had to change the lugs on my extension because the whirlwind hub only allows for 1/4" lug projection into its hub.

Tuned to max rpm 2700 WOT as reccommended i get 180 MPH TAS @ 5000 ft. Ground roll was improved as well.

Compared to my Composite fixed MT prop which I believe was slightly over pitched (max.rpm was 2500 @ wot).

Have noticed that at idle the prop has significant more vibrations than the MT. I assume this is because of the no wood content of the blades compared to the composite MT. At any cruise RPM it is just as smooth though. As a bonus, being no organic materials in the blades I need only check bolt torques at oil change intervals. Also, the hub bolts don't use safety wire but instead use special double jagged lock washers. (never seen these before) which made adjusting the hub much quicker.

Oh did I mention that the metal leading edge is rain proof.

Also, I like that the single blades are alot easier to ship for maintenace.
So far I like it.

Bringing this thread back from the past...

Anyone flying behind the Whirlwind GA200L prop and have experiences or thoughts to share?
I'm thinking of using one, but was surprised today when Whirlwind told me there is an inspection required every 50 hours (looking at the manual, it's more involved than a torque check, essentially removing and disassembling the whole thing to measure the bolts, check the blades, and replace the special stepped lockwashers). They also want this inspection done by an A&P or IA.

I have an email in to Sensenich to see what they require for inspections on the new GA prop they announced at OSH.

News to Me

Joshua, that exactly what the instruction manual says to do every 50 hours. Oh the thing I continue to learn about airplanes.

Just received my group buy prop about a month ago, so far have only admired it visually, I'll look at my paperwork this weekend.

jwyatt said:

Bringing this thread back from the past...

Anyone flying behind the Whirlwind GA200L prop and have experiences or thoughts to share?
I'm thinking of using one, but was surprised today when Whirlwind told me there is an inspection required every 50 hours (looking at the manual, it's more involved than a torque check, essentially removing and disassembling the whole thing to measure the bolts, check the blades, and replace the special stepped lockwashers). They also want this inspection done by an A&P or IA.

I have an email in to Sensenich to see what they require for inspections on the new GA prop they announced at OSH.

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dbuds2 said:

Joshua, that exactly what the instruction manual says to do every 50 hours. Oh the thing I continue to learn about airplanes.

Just received my group buy prop about a month ago, so far have only admired it visually, I'll look at my paperwork this weekend.

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That's not what I got from the manual Whirlwind sent me. The 50 hour inspection is visual and only after the first 50 hours. The annaul is a tear down, bolt measure, replace lock washer, re-pitch ordeal.

Spinner woes...

Does anybody out there running this prop have the old style cowl with the 12'' spinner? I was looking into the group buy this past winter, but at the time the Whirlwind folks weren't sure if it would fit under a 12'' spinner or not.