What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

De-icing my prop

dave_091

Active Member
Hi guys,

Attached is a picture of my RV4. I spent the morning in minus 20 degrees Celsius weather clearing snow and taking off the wheel pants.

My aircraft is almost completely covered, minus the prop. The prop has a good layer of ice on it. How would you guys go about removing the ice?
I have a heat gun I could use to pass over it in small sections really quickly. As soon as the ice melts I can wipe it with a rag to prevent it from instantly refreezing. That’s my plan when I go back to the plane tonight to plug in my engine heater to prepare for tomorrow’s flight.
It’s a metal fixed pitch prop, do you all think this is safe for the prop?

Cheers,

Dave
 

Attachments

  • BA307761-21EF-4196-A662-AE0B82534A4C.jpeg
    BA307761-21EF-4196-A662-AE0B82534A4C.jpeg
    842.8 KB · Views: 238
Your prop is a huge heat sink. You'd do well to cover it with something (anything) to retain the heat that is gonna be transmitted from the engine to the prop. If you do get it warm, the ice on the prop will melt. If you can't get the prop warm, you're gonna need some isopropyl alcohol to melt the ice in the morning.

But no, sitting there like that isn't bad for your prop, but I wouldn't start the engine with the prop iced up.
 
The heat gun should take the majority of the ice off the prop, then run the engine to warm up the oil, and whatever is left will sublimate off.

I sure hope you have a good heater, or winter survival gear, if you're planning on flying in those temps! If I remember correctly, Jon Johanssen (Ausie) ended up with a cracked canopy flying over the North pole in an RV-4 in temps near yours'. He about froze!
 
Jon Johanssen (Ausie) ended up with a cracked canopy flying over the North pole in an RV-4 in temps near yours'. He about froze!

That is a consideration I am taking into account.
I’ll be flying with a full face covering and a set of motocross goggles just in case the canopy decides to crack on me! I can only imagine how painful that cold wind would be on my face if the canopy did decide to break.

I have some great polar survival gear that will be loaded in the baggage area.
 
Cold

Minus 20 Celcius is minus 4 F. Not even close to being cold. Herkimer and Old Forge in Upstate NY have experienced record lows of minus 52 F both places.
I have spent a lot of time in that area in temperatures in the minus 40 F range.
Some time in below zero temps in a J3 Cub on skis.
 
Minus 20 Celcius is minus 4 F. Not even close to being cold. Herkimer and Old Forge in Upstate NY have experienced record lows of minus 52 F both places.
I have spent a lot of time in that area in temperatures in the minus 40 F range.
Some time in below zero temps in a J3 Cub on skis.

I have to take advantage of these “warm” minus 20 Celsius days because minus 20 is my personal cutoff for survival purposes in the event of a force landing.

It warms up to minus 20 here a few days throughout winter. The rest of the time we sit around minus 30 to minus 40 celsius and we dip down to the minus 50’s a couple weeks throughout the winter.
In February I’ll be spending 2 weeks outside in minus 65 degrees Celsius ( minus 85 Fahrenheit) on a cold weather survival course. Believe it or not, im looking forward to it!
 
A 1200 or 1500 watt hair drier is less intense than a heat gun and will easily let the ice slide off the blades. If it is just heavy frost, an expired credit card works well as a plastic scrapper.

Hopefully your pitot tube and static ports were covered and the lines inside are free of water. If and when you get around to a take off roll be sure and see the Air Speed needle start to move at the same speed you are used to observing.

I am surprised to hear that a 4 will hold enough survival gear to spend a night or two at -20C. History Channel - Alone Season 6 and 7 were along Great Slave Lake (very close to Yellow Knife) and even in shelters built in much warmer temps , most had a really tough time.
 
Last edited:
In February I’ll be spending 2 weeks outside in minus 65 degrees Celsius ( minus 85 Fahrenheit) on a cold weather survival course. Believe it or not, im looking forward to it!

Keep a good diary. I am sure most of the VAF crowd would love to read the details.

One of the most riveting books I have ever read is "81 Days Below Zero" about a WWII test pilot who survived a remote bailout of an inflight break up in Alaska.
https://www.amazon.ca/Days-Below-Zero-Incredible-Wilderness/dp/0306824523
 
Last edited:
Minus 20 Celcius is minus 4 F. Not even close to being cold. Herkimer and Old Forge in Upstate NY have experienced record lows of minus 52 F both places.
I have spent a lot of time in that area in temperatures in the minus 40 F range.
Some time in below zero temps in a J3 Cub on skis.

Keep a good diary. I am sure most of the VAF crowd would love to read the details.

One of the most riveting books I have ever read is "81 Days Below Zero" about a WWII test pilot who survived a remote bailout of an inflight break up in Alaska.
https://www.amazon.ca/Days-Below-Zero-Incredible-Wilderness/dp/0306824523

I plan documenting as much as I can during my time there. I’ll let you all know what works and what doesn’t when trying to survive in those temperatures.

Also, thank you for recommending the book, I now have it on order.
 
Last edited:
Isopropyl over a heat gun?
If I get isopropyl on any exposed skin in this weather it’s a quick road to frostbite.

I didn't suggest putting alcohol on your hands. ;-)

But, whatever works. And your engine will be a lot warmer in the mornings if you use an engine heater AND put some sort of covering on your prop. Without prop socks or something like that, the prop is just a 6' long radiator funneling cold into your crank.
 
It was Chilly Tonight

I just got back from the aircraft and I used the heat gun method to get the ice off the prop. It did work, but it took about 30-35 minutes with the heat gun on the highest setting. If I was to use a hair dryer, I’d be there for a month without melting any of that ice.

I wanted to check the oil tonight, the weather would have none of it, the dipstick was frozen closed.
I now have the aircraft plugged in to the newly installed Reiff preheater. It will remain plugged in until I go flying tomorrow. I’m hoping for an oil temperature in the 90 degree range tomorrow before starting, anything more would be a big bonus.
 
Resolute Bay

In February I’ll be spending 2 weeks outside in minus 65 degrees Celsius ( minus 85 Fahrenheit) on a cold weather survival course. Believe it or not, im looking forward to it!

I was going to mention this, but you beat me to it. The Arctic survival course is an absolute must for flying up there. I can’t say I loved every minute of the course, but I sure am glad to have done it. Please post pictures of the igloo you will build with a partner. :D Enjoy the Narwhal Inn!
 
I would not want to be the Next owner of that aircraft cold exterior storage damages many things

I would like to know your thoughts on why this is true? What gets damaged if it’s treated carefully in the cold? I’m pretty sure I have my bases covered but I’m always looking for new things to learn.

Since hangar storage here is nowhere to be found for GA aircraft everyone keeps their aircraft outdoors, covered or not covered, all winter long.
There are some very old aircraft here that are flying when it’s much colder than this. Usually they have their aircraft on floats in the summer and put their aircraft on wheel-ski’s for the winter and land on the frozen lakes in this area. They fly all year round.

I honestly thought the cold dry weather here would be great for an aircraft. It’s dryer than a popcorn fart here. This means that there are almost zero corrosion issues.
 
Last edited:
I would like to know your thoughts on why this is true? What gets damaged if it’s treated carefully in the cold? I’m pretty sure I have my bases covered but I’m always looking for new things to learn.

Since hangar storage here is nowhere to be found for GA aircraft everyone keeps their aircraft outdoors, covered or not covered, all winter long.
There are some very old aircraft here that are flying when it’s much colder than this. Usually they have their aircraft on floats in the summer and put their aircraft on wheel-ski’s for the winter and land on the frozen lakes in this area. They fly all year round.

I honestly thought the cold dry weather here would be great for an aircraft. It’s dryer than a popcorn fart here. This means that there are almost zero corrosion issues.
Internal engine corrosion is whole other galaxy.

Cold oil can allow scuffing and usually to either sitting (lack of initial lube) or low oil flow. Rev the engine to 1000 rpm max for good oil circulation and warming, increase (1200) as the engine runs smoother and oil pressure is stable. If you insulate the prop (a must), heat the Tannis or Reiff on the engine plug the openings with something that wont pass air, cover the cowling then get the oil temps up that is the best you can do for starting. Operation without covering the oil cooler can cause other issues. Others with deeper cold experience can talk about the non-obvious issues, like too much cooling air allowing all the other parts to be too cold and be unhappy - rubbers, ball bearings, etc. Cooling air restriction at the inlet would be an art for this environment and good local recommendations might be helpful. -20C is -4F, so you are not in the really cold temps - - new rules happen at -30C.

Simply, warm to start, and allow the engine to warm itself. Adjust cooling air as required to allow more normal operating temps for the engine an it shall be happy. Balance is needed to keep temps in a range, and that comes from experience or special factory recommendations. Lycoming would have the latter. That link is not really specific, sadly but has good information.
 
The heat gun should take the majority of the ice off the prop, then run the engine to warm up the oil, and whatever is left will sublimate off.

I sure hope you have a good heater, or winter survival gear, if you're planning on flying in those temps! If I remember correctly, Jon Johanssen (Ausie) ended up with a cracked canopy flying over the North pole in an RV-4 in temps near yours'. He about froze!

Not so good with metric, but I think that is around 0 to -5 F. I have flown several times in weather like that and no issue with the canopy. The RV-6 heater is another matter though. Need a heavy coat.

To the OP, Heating and cooling cycles shouldn't hurt the prop, though I would want all the ice gone first before flying. I have heard frost on the wings is bad and would expect anything rough to reduce thrust. Bring a bucket of hot water and a towel. Keep dipping and wiping until just a thin coat remains. Then the heat gun or alcohol should clean it up.

Larry
 
Last edited:
I would like to know your thoughts on why this is true? What gets damaged if it’s treated carefully in the cold? I’m pretty sure I have my bases covered but I’m always looking for new things to learn.

Since hangar storage here is nowhere to be found for GA aircraft everyone keeps their aircraft outdoors, covered or not covered, all winter long.
There are some very old aircraft here that are flying when it’s much colder than this. Usually they have their aircraft on floats in the summer and put their aircraft on wheel-ski’s for the winter and land on the frozen lakes in this area. They fly all year round.

I honestly thought the cold dry weather here would be great for an aircraft. It’s dryer than a popcorn fart here. This means that there are almost zero corrosion issues.

Don't listen to comments like that. They are based upon opinions, not science or facts. I know guys that also find it abusive to not wash the planes belly after each flight. My plane sits on the ramp and sees a similar climate that your does. Plane is doing fine. Just take steps, as Bill mentions, to care for the engine at start up. I use an oil sump heater and it gets the oil and cylinders up to a temp that I find acceptable for starting. Key is to block the wind from moving the air in the cowl so that the heat can migrate from the sump to the cylinders.
 
Last edited:
cold exterior storage damages many things

You'll need to back that up with something. There are millions of cars, planes and industrial equipment that sits out side in the frigid northern part of our continent and have heard NOTHING about how that causes more damage than the southern part of our continent. I would MUCH rather store my plane outside in Alaska than I would on the coastal shores of florida, or any coastal region. From my limited understanding, warm salty air creates WAY more problems for metal than does dry 0* air.
 
Prop Cover

Wouldn't it be less work to go ahead and cover the prop and cowl together? Remove / store / reinstall vs. hassling with heat guns, alcohol in the cold out on the ramp? Plus, if you have access to electric, will greatly speed the preheat process
 

Attachments

  • prop cover.jpg
    prop cover.jpg
    177.6 KB · Views: 69
I'm sure somebody in YZF has some deice fluid. See if you can get a gallon of Type 1 de-ice fluid. Use a rag soaked in the deice fluid to wipe off the frost. If it's thick sloppy frozen slush, spray a bit on just to let the glycol soak into the snow and that will loosen it up and will break off easily.

Don't need to apply it with a fire hose like the airlines do.

I'm sure this goes without saying for any northerner. Don't take of with frost, ice, snow or anything frozen to the wings, tail or prop. It's crashed many more capable airplanes.
 
When I flew 135 several years ago we would carry a pump up garden sprayer with deice fluid, a gallon would go a long way and it was effective.
 
Wx didn’t cooperate

Thanks for all the input!
The weather decided it wasn’t my day to play in the sky today.
Overcast 2000 ft, light snow, 3 miles vis.

I hadn’t thought of the de-icing fluid, good call, I may do that if required in the future.

While I was at the airport last night using the heat gun to get the ice off my prop someone told me they might have an extra set of insulated prop covers. Fast forward to this morning, while I was at the aircraft prepping for a flight that never happened, the same person had the insulated prop covers to give me. They fit just nicely, thank you 🙂

On another note, I am uncomfortable unplugging my Reiff preheater without starting the engine and going for a flight… not much I can do about that though.
 
Back
Top