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Final Size Holes

ColoradoSolar

Well Known Member
For anyone who has received any RV-10 kit from Vans recently were all the parts that were match drilled in the past now final size holes or were there still some parts that were only match drilled? My tail kit is suppose to ship soon and I would like to know what to expect
 
I purchased an unopened, second-hand, RV10 kit that was delivered to the original owner in July and have a mix of final size and match drill parts.
 
I have a RV-10 empennage from earlier this year and a fuselage that was just delivered. I would say 70% of the parts in the empennage that previously required final drilling are punched to final size. I find this matters most drilling the skins into the ribs on the various control surfaces -- for example, I believe the HSI was entirely final size punched and only required minimal drilling for both skins.

There is still plenty of match drilling, particularly on the tailcone, as you have to make and then drill the stiffeners and longerons using the skin holes and a rivet line on the part as guides.

So in summary, expect to be able to skip a few "final drill XX" steps. Does it save time? Absolutely, but probably on the order of 10s of hours not hundreds.

On the fuselage, I can't comment as I have only barely started, but I only saw one or two parts with stickers indicating the holes were not punched to final size.
 
Started my fuselage in May of this year and I would say the majority 95% were final drilled. In fact some of the orange stickered parts were final drilled. For those that don’t know Vans uses an orange highlighter on the part label to indicate it is not final drilled.

Nice to skip those final drill steps!

K
 
I just received and inventoried my empennage kit two days ago. Some of the parts had late 2019 and 2020 dates. Most of them were dated 2021. There was nothing indicating anything was mixed. So I am assuming all of it is final drilled. I will start production on Saturday.
 
So in summary, expect to be able to skip a few "final drill XX" steps. Does it save time? Absolutely, but probably on the order of 10s of hours not hundreds.

You'd be surprised. If there are some 20000 rivets in the 10 and you save 1s per rivet, that's over 300 hours saved!
 
I think you mean over 300 minutes saved? ;)
(or about 5 1/2 hrs)

derp.. yes! haha.

edit: also 5 hours feels low. I have at least that in the wing skins between getting them on, moving clecos, and the actual drilling (and waiting on the compressor).
 
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When I built my 10 I believed the holes were punched undersize so that they could be final drilled to relieve the stress created by the punch. With the holes now coming final sized do they come punched or are they created in some other way? Have I been misled all these years?
 
Every pre-drilled hole on my empennage (received last February) was final sized. Yes, there are holes that still need to be match drilled, but all pre-drilled holes were final drilled. Do keep an eye out for the few parts that are not exclusively -10 parts. The few -6 and -9 parts in the kit are likely not final drilled, and may not be marked with the highlighter - I think they only claim to mark -10 part which were not final sized.

The final drilled holes saves a lot more than just skipping the final drill step. In theory, you can probably skip the whole process of clecoing together the skeleton, then taking it back apart, priming, then final assembly. If you confirm final size holes and you're comfortable with it, I don't see why you wouldn't just deburr, prime, dimple and go straight to final assembly. That will save a ton of time.

The most difficult part of the transition to final holes we are in right now is knowing which steps you can skip and which you can not. Proceed at your own risk and make sure you fully understand all the steps.
 
My emp kit which came early May was from what I understand to be final sized parts.
Some of the parts had orange labels, but it's not clear to me this orange is the same as the labels that are orange highlighter to indicate not final size. But rather just orange stock they have in their labeling gun. For sure form what I saw the parts with the orange label stock were final size.

You will find that you still need to assemble most of the parts and disassemble. I was thinking final size would save some of the assemble/disassemble steps, but I've not seen that to be the case. You are just saving some of the drilling time and that's it. Even worse, the instructions aren't updated yet so you are left with the mystery of when to drill and when not to drill.
 
derp.. yes! haha.

edit: also 5 hours feels low. I have at least that in the wing skins between getting them on, moving clecos, and the actual drilling (and waiting on the compressor).

I agree....
The time savings is quite a bit more. Particularly since additional time is also saved by not needing to cleco a structure entirely together twice before actually doing any skin riveting.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. Looking forward to getting started hopefully soon.

Scott, I remember reading somewhere that you only need to deburr if needed. Did I read that right, feel the part and if no burr then carry on?
 
Particularly since additional time is also saved by not needing to cleco a structure entirely together twice before actually doing any skin riveting.

I end up following the plans exactly and just marking the drilling steps completed if I determine the holes are final sized. Hadn't thought about skipping the clecoing in some areas. Maybe on the fuselage it will make a bigger difference with all the various skins there. That being said, I do like having the cleco-ed structure before riveting anything just to make sure everything looks right. And for something like the tailcone, I would imagine you need to cleco anyway to keep the tailcone rigid while you drill the aft deck.


Alex
 
I agree....
The time savings is quite a bit more. Particularly since additional time is also saved by not needing to cleco a structure entirely together twice before actually doing any skin riveting.

Yeah exactly. I did a rough timing of how long it took me to do a fairly simple final drill operation: the rear spar seat supports and uprights. 120 holes in total took about 30 minutes from the time I started to the time I broke it down. That doesn’t include finding parts or peeling blue or any of the other ops on that page but it does include reading the instructions and double checking everything and moving clecos and moving the assembly around for access. I also omitted the 15 min or so it took to drill the AN3 bolt holes.

That’s about 15s/hole. At that rate you would save 80+ hours on the whole build which does feel closer to reality. The remaining pages in section 25 have been basically to peel the blue off, deburr, do any countersinking/dimpling and it’s ready for primer and assembly.
 
I should be receiving my empennage kit sometime in December or January. I hope it will be all final size holes.
 
I received and started my empennage in April 2021 and don't think anything was final drilled.. I didn't notice any different color labels.. everything has a white label on it.
 
I received and started my empennage in April 2021 and don't think anything was final drilled.. I didn't notice any different color labels.. everything has a white label on it.

I received my empennage around the same time and there was a note saying an orange mark meant the holes were not final sized - a few parts had an orange mark but most skins did not, and most skins were final sized.
 
Final sized holes - instructions ?

Hi All,

I’ve been reading these forums for some time & eventually ordered my Rv10 kits late last year (Emp, Wings, QB Fuse & Finishing kits all ordered) with the kit now in crating it’s starting to get real !

Now that I’m starting to read the manuals I was wondering how those with the latest “Final Sized Hole” kits have established what steps they can miss out ?

Is it obvious once you start building ?

As the RV14 has always been final sized holes are those instructions clearer ?

Finally, thanks for all the great information shared by the builders on this forum, it’s a great resource and I’m looking forwards to joining the community.

Thanks,

Niels
 
The instructions still seem to assume final size drilling is necessary. It's not always obvious which steps can be ignored, but it often is.
 
Hi All,

I’ve been reading these forums for some time & eventually ordered my Rv10 kits late last year (Emp, Wings, QB Fuse & Finishing kits all ordered) with the kit now in crating it’s starting to get real !

Now that I’m starting to read the manuals I was wondering how those with the latest “Final Sized Hole” kits have established what steps they can miss out ?

Is it obvious once you start building ?

As the RV14 has always been final sized holes are those instructions clearer ?

Finally, thanks for all the great information shared by the builders on this forum, it’s a great resource and I’m looking forwards to joining the community.

Thanks,

Niels

Hey Niels,

Once you get started and Cleco 2 pieces together you will know what needs final drilling by looking at the part number tag , an orange dot means it needs final drilling. Also you can test it with a #30 or #40 bit depending on what size rivet is called out.
After a few pieces it will be come very apparent what you need to final drill....in fact most or your drilling will be match drilling to upsize to a larger hole for a screw/bolt etc.

Hope this helps and and have fun building

Keith
 
I keep a variety of extra rivets in a little cup on my tool cart and check to see if the proper size rivets fit in a few holes. If so, and the part isn’t otherwise marked, I skip the final drill.
 
Look into reaming versus drilling. Much “rounder” and prettier holes. Lots of drills leave a kind of triangular shaped hole.
 
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