What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

delivering an aircraft for sale

Status
Not open for further replies.

prkaye

Well Known Member
Hi everyone,
Looking for some advice here. I may have a buyer for my -9A, and he may want me to deliver it to him near Calgary (I am near Ottawa). I've done this route once before - I would to it over 3 days, probably about 15 hours of flying time. He, of course, will cover my enroute expenses, return commercial flight, fuel etc. What I'm wondering is how much would be typically deemed reasonable or expected to add to the purchase price for the inconvenience of delivering it? Is there a general rule of thumb in this regard?
Thanks for any thoughts!
p.s. I'm keeping the possibility open of building an -8 in the future, depending on how things develop.
 
Keep it separate

Keep the two things separate.
Sale price as agreed : Paid before delivery, funds verified in your account.
Price for delivery as agreed: Paid upon delivery, cash.
If it was me, I would simply charge for my actual expenses for delivery.
Gas, overnight stays, and ticket back home.
 
Thank Ernst. I thought about it more this morning and i'm chickening-out. I've let the buyer know that I'm not comfortable flying across the country this fall (besides the sheer inconvenience, taking time off work, having to fly commercial wearing a mask, etc). The buyer is going to figure out some other way to either come and pick it up, hire someone to ferry it, or have me store it for him until spring.
 
I did a trip in my -9A last month that covered similar territory, albeit a little further north. I flew Summerside, PE to La Tuque, QC to Kapuskasing, ON to Dryden, ON on day 1 and Dryden to Yorkton, SK to Red Deer, AB on day 2. That took me 15 hours of flying time. Your trip shouldn't be more than 12 hours. I was hesitant to fly the northern route but it turned out to be a trouble free crossing both ways.

If I had my commercial license I'd offer to help out. Probably need the commercial to satisfy the insurance and definitely to charge anything beyond expenses.
 
Commercial Usage

Hi everyone,
Looking for some advice here. I may have a buyer for my -9A, and he may want me to deliver it to him near Calgary (I am near Ottawa). I've done this route once before - I would to it over 3 days, probably about 15 hours of flying time. He, of course, will cover my enroute expenses, return commercial flight, fuel etc. What I'm wondering is how much would be typically deemed reasonable or expected to add to the purchase price for the inconvenience of delivering it? Is there a general rule of thumb in this regard?
Thanks for any thoughts!
p.s. I'm keeping the possibility open of building an -8 in the future, depending on how things develop.

I don't know what the Canadian regulations are regarding commercial usage of aircraft, but in the US receiving expenses for such a flight would definitely be considered commercial use and the pilot would need to have the appropriate license for this.

Skylor
 
I don't know what the Canadian regulations are regarding commercial usage of aircraft, but in the US receiving expenses for such a flight would definitely be considered commercial use and the pilot would need to have the appropriate license for this.

Skylor

I think so too.
Another consideration: a few years back I ferried a 182 across the US, following a sale. Enroute (with the seller) both the vacuum pump and the backup electric attitude indicator died. The seller had to re-negotiate the price. Things can happen in ten hours.
 
Yes, keep the delivery cost separate, plan for potential weather delays along the way & have a last great adventure in your 9A!
 
Hi everyone,
Looking for some advice here. I may have a buyer for my -9A, and he may want me to deliver it to him near Calgary (I am near Ottawa). I've done this route once before - I would to it over 3 days, probably about 15 hours of flying time. He, of course, will cover my enroute expenses, return commercial flight, fuel etc. What I'm wondering is how much would be typically deemed reasonable or expected to add to the purchase price for the inconvenience of delivering it? Is there a general rule of thumb in this regard?
Thanks for any thoughts!
p.s. I'm keeping the possibility open of building an -8 in the future, depending on how things develop.

I'LL DO IT FOR COSTS
 
Phil, I flew my Maule from Lethbridge back to Arnprior in April of 2018 when I bought it. 13 hours (it isn't fast) and one overnight stay in Thunder Bay. It was Lethbridge-Brandon (fuel)-Thunder Bay (overnight) - North Bay (fuel) - Arnprior.

I did have to take Air Canada out to Calgary first, though ... worst part of the trip, actually :)

It was dead-easy and a lot of fun.

My $0.02
 
On the other hand...

Nice way to hurt pilots who charge for their commercial skills and credentials.

Isn't it all relative?
For example, anyone who home builds is "hurting" those who build certified craft. Flying your own plane takes away from commercial airlines...
Just sayin.
 
I sold my first RV (6) to two gentleman at Oshkosh about 20 years ago. Neither one had RV time or a tail wheel endorsement. I told them I would deliver to their home base in CO, (about a 400 mile trip) if they would get me back home. Delivered the plane, took one of the buyers for a ride, got the$$, and he took me back to my home base in a 172 (ugh). No muss no fuss.
 
Phil, I flew my Maule from Lethbridge back to Arnprior in April of 2018 when I bought it. 13 hours (it isn't fast) and one overnight stay in Thunder Bay. It was Lethbridge-Brandon (fuel)-Thunder Bay (overnight) - North Bay (fuel) - Arnprior.

I did have to take Air Canada out to Calgary first, though ... worst part of the trip, actually :)

It was dead-easy and a lot of fun.

My $0.02

Thunder Bay used to be a good stop, but for a few recent years has almost criminal fuel prices and ramp charges. If going east or west consider Kakabeka Falls just a few minutes west. it has a well maintained grass runway and used to allow camping beside your AC.

North Bay has expensive overnight tie down fees., but is OK for a fuel stop in the middle of the day.

Plan well ahead and make some phone calls to local flying clubs for intel.

Heading west, it is often best to wait for truly great weather and do it in one long day. You can get stuck in Marathon, Thunder Bay or Kenora for over a week with low stratus and fog in the AM, then lines of CB's before you can get to the next stop west. My first time west I went from Montreal PQ to Yorkton Sask one long day in 14 hours of air time in a 110 kt airframe.

It is a great way to see the country and get your head out of the office. Especially if the buyer is paying your fuel, motels and meals.
 
Last edited:
Isn't it all relative?
For example, anyone who home builds is "hurting" those who build certified craft. Flying your own plane takes away from commercial airlines...
Just sayin.

There are pilots who spend all their money to become a professional pilot, and are building time to get a professional job. Along the way, one good way is to advertise to ferry planes. A commercial pilot should be able to charge a fair wage to provide this service, and it sucks when someone offers to “do it for free or expenses”, as it’s taking food off this professional pilots plate.
 
u get what u pay for... I'm just an RV pilot willing to help.

Maybe you think you’re helping the owner, or seller, but you are HURTING up and coming commercial pilots and professional ferry pilots, taking food off their plate. Want to “help” the industry? Go become an instructor and offer the best instruction, ground school or mentoring that you can to new or less experienced pilots in your area.
 
Sorry but a totally unnecessary post. These are RV pilots who love to fly these incredible machines.

I totally agree, we all love flying these wonderful planes, but what about if someone came to your boss and offered to do YOUR job for free, just because they loved doing whatever it is you do? Suppose you are an airl8 e pilot, and someone offers to fly your 787 for free, just because they love it? Or they want to do a surgery, or work in the machine shop, or whatever you do, and they want to do it for free? Doesn’t that kinda hurt the industry?
 
I totally agree, we all love flying these wonderful planes, but what about if someone came to your boss and offered to do YOUR job for free, just because they loved doing whatever it is you do? Suppose you are an airl8 e pilot, and someone offers to fly your 787 for free, just because they love it? Or they want to do a surgery, or work in the machine shop, or whatever you do, and they want to do it for free? Doesn’t that kinda hurt the industry?

Apples and oranges mate. Very infrequent RV ferries and does an aspiring commercial pilot have RV hours for insurance? probably not.
End of conversation for me.
 
Maybe you think you’re helping the owner, or seller, but you are HURTING up and coming commercial pilots and professional ferry pilots, taking food off their plate. Want to “help” the industry? Go become an instructor and offer the best instruction, ground school or mentoring that you can to new or less experienced pilots in your area.

And if you undercut prevailing prices, you again hurt existing cfi’s. And if you charge more, you’ll get no business. There’s really no one right answer.
 
It is about 1800 statue miles? The plane goes 150-165 mph? So it would be a two day flight easy. Not withstanding weather, during longer summer days (which are in rearview mirror at this point), tailwinds, you could do it on ONE DAY, 12 hours of flying.

I delivered a RV-4 from Seattle to Upstate New York. I had to go almost to Las Vegas first before going East, to get around serious winter weather settled over mid Continent. It took 3.5 days.

I did it for expenses: fuel, hotel (3 nights), $30 periderm per day. He dropped me off at the airport and jump seated as an airline pilot. I was happy to do it. It was a great trip. I spent first night in Tonopah Nevada (edge of Area 51 and halfway between Reno and Vegas. The airfield was a WWII training base. Really the Weather in the middle was freezing rain. The total distance was about 3300 miles. I did about 1000 miles a day, and last day was about 300 miles. I cruised at 190 mph TAS so I was flying two 3 hour legs a day. Except for it being cold it was a kick. I recall besides Tonopah NV, my layover's were Kansas and PA. The next morning I had a less than 2 hour flight to destination. It was a fun trip. The WX detour added over 800 miles. Don't push it.
 
Last edited:
And if you undercut prevailing prices, you again hurt existing cfi’s. And if you charge more, you’ll get no business. There’s really no one right answer.

You should absolutely charge for quality instruction! Charge some fair rate, somewhere between $35 to $100 per hour for quality instruction around here. As for a previous comment about a ferry pilot having no RV time to meet insurance? That is simply not true. When I was very early in my career, I had hundreds of tailwheel hours from towing gliders in the L-19 Birddog, and dozens of hours in RV’s thanks to some friends with RV-4s and a -6. All I’m saying is that doing ferry’s for free (outside of a personal friend or a plane that you are personally involved in) is not right to the people who are attempting to make a living flying planes, and hurts the rest of the industry.
 
Wow, Tom. You need to take a deep breath and think logically. I sold my own home - no realtor. A guy showed me what I needed to do - wait for it - FOR FREE! Taking food off the realtors table? I don’t think so. Actually meant I could afford to buy the new house. It’s not my job to put food on your table. Go market your skills and convince people why they should hire you.

If someone offered to come to your house and help you build a barn would you turn them down because there are people who do that for a living? If someone mowed your lawn while you were out of town would you turn them down because there are people that do that for a living? If someone offered to do your BFR for free, you reject it because….? I would assume that you accept no favors, discounts or assistance, ever?

I think it’s awesome that a fellow VAF member is willing to help out!

Your irrational rant is not actually lived out, I guarantee it. Do you only eat at restaurants? There are people that cook food for a living and you don’t want to steal their money by accepting invites to people’s houses for dinner. Grow a garden? People do that for a living too - call them farmers. You ever have an airplane issue that you couldn’t figure out and someone came to your rescue? Guess what, you should have called a mechanic - they get paid to do this stuff. Have you ever used ANY advice off this forum that Vic Syracuse offered for free? He does this for a living so you should be ashamed of yourself! Anyone ever see you along side the road and give you a tow or a ride home? Tow trucks and cabs (or Uber, nowadays). They need to eat.

Has anyone on this forum helped you diagnose a problem or figure out how to complete a portion of a build? Guess what? There are paid mechanics and builders assist organizations that are literally starving right now because of you.

I could go on all night because your logic is so self-righteously broken that the examples of your hypocrisy are endless.
 
Wow, Tom. You need to take a deep breath and think logically. I sold my own home - no realtor. A guy showed me what I needed to do - wait for it - FOR FREE! Taking food off the realtors table? I don’t think so. Actually meant I could afford to buy the new house. It’s not my job to put food on your table. Go market your skills and convince people why they should hire you.

If someone offered to come to your house and help you build a barn would you turn them down because there are people who do that for a living? If someone mowed your lawn while you were out of town would you turn them down because there are people that do that for a living? If someone offered to do your BFR for free, you reject it because….? I would assume that you accept no favors, discounts or assistance, ever?

I think it’s awesome that a fellow VAF member is willing to help out!

Your irrational rant is not actually lived out, I guarantee it. Do you only eat at restaurants? There are people that cook food for a living and you don’t want to steal their money by accepting invites to people’s houses for dinner. Grow a garden? People do that for a living too - call them farmers. You ever have an airplane issue that you couldn’t figure out and someone came to your rescue? Guess what, you should have called a mechanic - they get paid to do this stuff. Have you ever used ANY advice off this forum that Vic Syracuse offered for free? He does this for a living so you should be ashamed of yourself! Anyone ever see you along side the road and give you a tow or a ride home? Tow trucks and cabs (or Uber, nowadays). They need to eat.

Has anyone on this forum helped you diagnose a problem or figure out how to complete a portion of a build? Guess what? There are paid mechanics and builders assist organizations that are literally starving right now because of you.

I could go on all night because your logic is so self-righteously broken that the examples of your hypocrisy are endless.

Wow, this rant HAS gone off the rails.. all I’m saying is that offering to ferry someone’s plane for free is cheapening the industry, just so that you get some free flight time. Every example you gave, selling YOUR house, building YOUR barn, ect is different, because you are personally involved with your project. Same if you were selling YOUR plane, go deliver it, that’s cool.

I don’t know what you do for a living, suppose you drive a bulldozer, or are an architect..now suppose someone who has an interest in moving dirt, or doing drawings offers to do that job (for people not directly involved with personally) for free, is that cool? How about if you spent thousands of dollars, and years honing your craft, and all of a sudden, people decide it looks like fun, they’ll do your job for free, because they don’t need the money. Is that wrong? Perhaps I’m the only one here that thinks it isn’t right. Do it yourself, or be willing to pay a professional, but don’t do “commercial services” for free, cutting off your fellow pilot. Anybody here agree with me? Ok I’ll shut up now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top