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  #1  
Old 08-07-2022, 08:34 AM
AV8ER's Avatar
AV8ER AV8ER is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 232
Default New Career starting now.

I've been thinking about a career change and decided to take the plunge and get the training and (500) hours I need to get an ATP so I can get a job flying professionally for an air carrier.

Prior to this 2.5 hour paintbrush flight (no gps waypoints or breadcrumbs btw) I had 994.7 hours of PPL with instrument flying. Currently working on the book work and flying for a single commercial ticket.

Any advice you have is appreciated towards a job at one of the big carriers.



[ed. Looks good! Tim, there is a CAE outfit in Orlando. I would suggest considering applying for the SCM program (part time seat filler - 'Supporting Crew Member'). At least for me it was a really fast way to log nearly 1000 hours of (simulated) jet multi time in my spare time (got paid $10/hr to do it - paid for my gas and lunch). Level D simulator time counts the same as actual time in your logbook in regards to hiring qualifications and insurance. 100 sessions gets you a type. 200 gets you another. I got my types in both the Phenom 300 and Gulfstream G-V. And I've had a dozen corporate full-time offers (I like running VAF too much to do that).

My G-V checkride in the sim was also my ATP check. You wanna be bored while thinking about lunch while doing a single engine go around at night in the simulated sh*t? Work at the sim for a bit. <g> You'll get good and most times will be way out in front of the client mentally.

When I interviewed they told me they needed help in the phenom 300 program. I told them that sounds fine and I'd be happy to do it. Afterwards I went out to my car and googled “what is a phenom 300”. You learn a lot doing this sim support, it doesn't cost you, and you become proficient at it.

v/r,

PS: They've recently changed their website up so you may have to dig a little bit for their SCM program information.]
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Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 08-08-2022 at 05:28 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-07-2022, 11:10 AM
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wcalvert wcalvert is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Anacortes Wa
Posts: 518
Cool

Tim

This is a great time to be moving towards the airline industry. Keep in mind that in order to land a job at a major, you'll need more than the ATP and minimum hours.

Think in terms of useful experience that reflects your ability to fly as a crew, make critical decisions and act as PIC in a multi engine environment. Along with that, a 4 year college degree of some sort (although that requirement is currently changing) and a well rounded background (community service, hobbies etc.). The big carriers also like to see professional involvement, like being a member/OIC of a safety committee, union rep, etc ... CRM and any other type of advanced crew training/instructing are also a big bonus.

I see guys coming to my workplace with all of the above and a Masters degree, and a few working on more advanced degrees. Many are less than 30 yo and have quite impressive resumes. And the gals are in the fight too!

While you work on hours/tickets, start looking at all the forums and groups that cater to your situation. There are also some programs with airlines that offer jobs at their regional ops with a guaranteed option to move up in time. Aviate is one of those.

Then there's the whole thing about keeping your nose clean for the next XX years and avoiding doing anything dumb in a plane ...

This sounds like a lot to tackle, but keep your head down and move along. It's part of the test!

Cheers
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  #3  
Old 08-07-2022, 11:42 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
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Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 3,188
Default …and

“…Then there's the whole thing about keeping your nose clean for the next XX years and avoiding doing anything dumb in a plane ...”

Or a car, or a party, or on Facebook, or…you get the idea.

Get your time in and apply at a regional, they are screaming for pilots as their senior pilots move on to the majors…
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  #4  
Old 08-07-2022, 12:19 PM
Mconner7 Mconner7 is offline
 
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Location: Bradenton FL
Posts: 237
Default

I just flew with a contract copilot who was making $95 per hour as a new hire in a CRJ. This is an excellent time to make your career move.
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  #5  
Old 08-07-2022, 01:49 PM
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sprucemoose sprucemoose is offline
 
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Location: MKE
Posts: 1,563
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Tim,

I did exactly this a couple of years ago as a sort of mid-life crisis so I can relate. If you want to work for a major airline the best route there is from a regional airline, and they are hiring like crazy right now. If you have 1500 hours (and all the experience sub-requirements) with 25 multi you can get hired. Many will even pay to send you to CTP so you can take the ATP written.

Thee are other routes to the majors but outside of the military, regionals are your best shot. Majors prefer folks who have shown they can make it in a 121 environment. Not saying you can’t go from 91 corporate or 135 to a major but it is not as common.

Besides getting your ratings, I’d focus on IFR flying as much as possible. Everything in 121 is IFR and even at the regional level, you are expected to show up day 1 with good instrument skills and knowledge. Flying in the system is good experience, teaching it as a CFII is also very good.

Which regional to chose, which major to target, etc etc are all discussions beyond the scope of this thread and there are other forums for that. Airlinepilotforums.com is a good place to start.

Good luck.
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  #6  
Old 08-07-2022, 06:59 PM
Pilotjim77 Pilotjim77 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: CHESHIRE, MA
Posts: 293
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV8ER View Post
I've been thinking about a career change and decided to take the plunge and get the training and (500) hours I need to get an ATP so I can get a job flying professionally for an air carrier.

Prior to this 2.5 hour paintbrush flight (no gps waypoints or breadcrumbs btw) I had 994.7 hours of PPL with instrument flying. Currently working on the book work and flying for a single commercial ticket.

Any advice you have is appreciated towards a job at one of the big carriers.



[ed. Looks good! Tim, there is a CAE outfit in Orlando. I would suggest considering applying for the SCM program (part time seat filler - 'Supporting Crew Member'). At least for me it was a really fast way to log nearly 1000 hours of jet multi time in my spare time (got paid $10/hr to do it - paid for my gas and lunch). 100 sessions gets you a type. 200 gets you another. I got my types in both the Phenom 300 and Gulfstream G-V. And I've had a dozen corporate full-time offers (I like running VAF too much to do that).

My G-V checkride in the sim was also my ATP check.

When I interviewed they told me they needed help in the phenom 300 program. I told them that sounds fine and I'd be happy to do it. Afterwards I went out to my car and googled “what is a phenom 300”. You learn a lot doing this sim support, it doesn't cost you, and you become proficient at it.

v/r,

PS: They've recently changed their website up so you may have to dig a little bit for their SCM program information.]
https://cae.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com/en...w-Member_85864
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  #7  
Old 08-07-2022, 08:27 PM
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catmandu catmandu is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sierra Nevada
Posts: 1,096
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My advice? SLOW DOWN! You are already flying like a rich airline pilot with those normal cruise speeds, and associated fuel burn.

Build your time at 125 mph, or so, which is probably closer to max endurance. You need hours on your resume, not distance. And I double the suggestion of lots of IFR flying. The controllers in your neck of the woods are used to flights with lots of practice approaches.
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  #8  
Old 08-08-2022, 11:00 AM
nohoflyer nohoflyer is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 358
Default

Get some hours and apply to an intermediate job on your way to a regional. Don’t slow down to get more hours, get paid to fly. Then get to 1500 hrs and get into a regional. Once there everyone you work will give you advice on how to make it to a major. I was military but I mostly fly with guys who were not and I’m always surprised by all the different ways they built time.

Look at small cargo, banner towing, pipeline inspecting, tour flying, corporate, even instructing.
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Last edited by nohoflyer : 08-08-2022 at 11:03 AM.
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  #9  
Old 08-08-2022, 05:00 PM
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Steve Crewdog Steve Crewdog is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: KBVS
Posts: 288
Default

3 most common things said at SkyWest when a crew meets:
-What's your name?
-Do you want the first leg?
-When's your class date? (at a major airline)


Go ahead and contact Skywest right now, tell them what's going on. Worst case they tell you to call back in 6 months. Best case- they tell you to drop everything, go to this school, and we'll have a class for you in February 2023.


Good luck, and go reread Fate is the Hunter.
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  #10  
Old 08-10-2022, 09:12 PM
AV8ER's Avatar
AV8ER AV8ER is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 232
Default Thanks All for the insight. Keep it coming.

Thanks Doug. I am churning away at their SCM qualifications with vigilance:

Req Qualifications:
· Commercial Pilot or Airline Transport Pilot certificate
· Airplane Multi-Engine Land (MEL)
· Instrument rating airplane multi-engine land, with 50 hours of multi-engine and instrument experience
· 400 hours Total Time (100 hours of turbine, preferred)
· Available for a minimum of 35 events in a 12-month period to stay current and receive recurrent training
· Must live within the Orlando area
· Must be able to commit 10-15 days of work a month
· Scheduling is at a minimum of 5 hours at a time and could be scheduled 24/7

Quote:
Originally Posted by wcalvert View Post
Tim

Think in terms of useful experience that reflects your ability to fly as a crew, make critical decisions and act as PIC in a multi engine environment. Along with that, a 4 year college degree of some sort (although that requirement is currently changing) and a well rounded background (community service, hobbies etc.). The big carriers also like to see professional involvement, like being a member/OIC of a safety committee, union rep, etc ... CRM and any other type of advanced crew training/instructing are also a big bonus.
snip

Cheers
Thanks for this insight Bill. I am hearing this from others at the big carriers as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprucemoose View Post
Tim,

I did exactly this a couple of years ago as a sort of mid-life crisis so I can relate. If you want to work for a major airline the best route there is from a regional airline, and they are hiring like crazy right now. If you have 1500 hours (and all the experience sub-requirements) with 25 multi you can get hired. Many will even pay to send you to CTP so you can take the ATP written.

Thee are other routes to the majors but outside of the military, regionals are your best shot. Majors prefer folks who have shown they can make it in a 121 environment. Not saying you can’t go from 91 corporate or 135 to a major but it is not as common.

Besides getting your ratings, I’d focus on IFR flying as much as possible. Everything in 121 is IFR and even at the regional level, you are expected to show up day 1 with good instrument skills and knowledge. Flying in the system is good experience, teaching it as a CFII is also very good.
snip

Good luck.
Thanks Jeff. Ever since getting the IFR ticket I have been filing for any flight over 50 miles. I'll keep doing this but seems prudent to make all my training flights on an IFR plan too (outside of maneuver practice).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotjim77 View Post
Thanks Jim for finding that link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by catmandu View Post
Build your time at 125 mph, or so, which is probably closer to max endurance. You need hours on your resume, not distance. And I double the suggestion of lots of IFR flying. The controllers in your neck of the woods are used to flights with lots of practice approaches.
Spent a few hours last night in the RV-10's 23% econo cruise / about 85 knots burning 6.6 gph. The nose is so high in the air the forward visibility is more like what Lindbergh had. I agree the controllers are nice around Orlando. Yesterday they happened to be in a good mood and gave me a practice approach into KMCO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohoflyer View Post
Get some hours and apply to an intermediate job on your way to a regional. Don’t slow down to get more hours, get paid to fly. Then get to 1500 hrs and get into a regional. Once there everyone you work will give you advice on how to make it to a major. I was military but I mostly fly with guys who were not and I’m always surprised by all the different ways they built time.

Look at small cargo, banner towing, pipeline inspecting, tour flying, corporate, even instructing.
Thanks Nohoflyer. I started looking into 135 operations. Looks like with 1200 hours I can fly PIC in a Caravan filled with boxes. Not sure if 1000 hours as PIC as a Caravan driver would be a way to get closer to the airlines outside a regional? Having a job that paid me to fly and log hours would be good but I wonder if it would shorten my time at a regional en route to an airline?

The current plan is to fly the 500 hours I need to hit 1500 on my own dime in the next 6 months while getting the Commercial Single and Multi boxes checked. I should be able to squeeze in a few more Young Eagles and possibly move some dogs around the country too during those hours.

Does a regional care about where you flew the time? Is there a bonus for flying boxes in a Caravan or for any other 135 operator? Or do the regionals only care about 1500 hours?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Crewdog View Post
Go ahead and contact Skywest right now, tell them what's going on. Worst case they tell you to call back in 6 months. Best case- they tell you to drop everything, go to this school, and we'll have a class for you in February 2023.
Interesting point Steve. It seems there are a fair number of 135 jobs one can get with 1000-1200 hours. I hadn't considered that there may be a training program like that.
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Bought the -10 (Thanks Carl!)
Built the Hangar
Currently building the -8
www.N7ZK.com
"How's it feel to be the fastest plane in the sky? You were spanking two Cirrus planes, a Mooney, and another plane. I took screen shots" - Quote from the best wife in the world.
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