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Affording the build

Kmdpilot

Member
I am sure this has been asked multiple times. Looking at the RV14. Of course the total build cost is a concern. I do OK financially, but 120-140K for a plane is a bit much. My plan is to buy the kits individually, maybe one a year. Tail and empennage. Then wings. Fuselage then finishing. That way I can spread out the costs to about 10-15K per year for 4 years or so. After that, Finance the engine and panel.
That is a rough plan. How have other's paid for their builds?
 
That's along the lines of what I did for the Vans kits, first the empennage, then fuselage and wings together, then the finishing kit. Timing was influenced by when there was an available shared shipping container, because international shipping was a big added cost for me.
I bought a used engine when a good opportunity came up and have saved money for instruments, painting etc. when the time comes.
 
I wish I would have cashed out my stocks and bought all the kits at the same time. The stock market fiasco of 2020 seriously delayed my progress... when I had nothing to do but sit inside all day for a whole year.
 
I wish I would have cashed out my stocks and bought all the kits at the same time. The stock market fiasco of 2020 seriously delayed my progress... when I had nothing to do but sit inside all day for a whole year.

Second this. Spent 5 months waiting for the wing kit after finishing the tail.
 
Affording a kit

That is a good plan to buy what you can and spread it out over time. But remember the kit prices go up in price every year around 3 to 5%. And having one shipment might also save you money.

Avionics can wait.





RV 14A 140507 flying
2020 donation made
 
Don't forget the tax implications of cashing out stocks and/or 401k's

It might move you to a higher tax bracket.
 
Yep

Your plan is roughly my plan.
Cash for kits. Finance engine and panel.
Work a little extra when possible to help with cash flow but dodge jumping tax brackets.
 
I'm on the "pay cash as you go" plan; I promised my wife I would not go into debt to build and so I only bought kits/components as I had the cash on hand to do so. The last couple of years I've been working an off-shift so the extra pay for that has basically put me in a place where I can finish the build with what's currently in the bank--assuming no major financial upsets. I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel now; at this point it's just a matter of finding the time to get out in the shop and finish. A wife in grad school and a five-year-old not in school makes that a little difficult...

I've saved money with a couple of things; I got a few tools left over from my dad's RV build, built my engine with the help of an A&P friend (vs. buying new), and am working on doing all my wiring myself. I'm also not going to go all-in with a fancy paint job. Further savings can be found in used/last-generation avionics, simple interiors, partially-built projects, etc if you are so inclined.
 
I would say for 80% of RV owners it is priorities. 20% has enough income its not a problem.

I cancelled cable 15 years ago, drive used and sometimes very used cars, live in a simple house, etc.

When it came to engine and avionics, I made some good rental house decisions that allowed me to pay cash for them.

1 step at a time.
 
...and

...and do not overlook theists once the aircraft is flyable.

You will have hangar rent, insurance, fuel, and maintenance.

There is nothing worse than having a beautiful airplane and not being able to afford to fly it...
 
I've been on the pay as you go plan. There are many costs for these builds that are beyond what you might expect. A lot of that has to do with how you do the build and what level of parts you plan to buy. For me I build it the way I want and I try not to let the cost drive my decisions. I'm certain others could do what I have done for less. Let me give you an example. I'm using high density 15 pin D connectors to connect my stick grips. I opted for using the mil spec variant of these connectors. I found some of the connectors on Ebay for about $10/each. These connectors can be as high as $25-30/ea retail. Now I could have used a standard commercial grade connector for $2-3/ea. Is my selection overkill, maybe, but everyone builds what they want. I use this as an example of the cost can vary widely depending on what you want.

I often have deliveries of parts coming many times a week. You'll be amazed once you get started. Most of these costs are outside of what you would expect.

One other thing. I have been building my plane for a while. Let's leave it at that, but your financial situation can change over time. Things happen that allow you to figure out how to pay for these expensive parts of the plane. I've been lucky that it has worked out for me. I do sometimes have to limit progress until I can afford to buy an item, but normally that isn't the case. There are always plenty of items to work on.

One other thing. Kits do go up in price over time. I would have saved some money if I had bought them all in the beginning, but then again I didn't have the money. I'm guessing you don't either or you wouldn't be asking about this approach.
 
Sounds good! In the meantime while waiting for your Empennage kit, get your shop set up with the workbenches you need and purchase the RV-14(A) tools needed for the build. Then purchase a couple of Van's practice kits and practice, practice and practice.
 
Life is short. RVs are going up in value. The cost of the kit and the engines are going up probably faster than interest rates. If you can use someone else's money to finance, why not?

Obviously everyone's situation is different, this is not financial advice, YMMV, don't complain to me if your wife gets angry, etc. :D
 
I am sure this has been asked multiple times. Looking at the RV14. Of course the total build cost is a concern. I do OK financially, but 120-140K for a plane is a bit much. My plan is to buy the kits individually, maybe one a year. Tail and empennage. Then wings. Fuselage then finishing. That way I can spread out the costs to about 10-15K per year for 4 years or so. After that, Finance the engine and panel.
That is a rough plan. How have other's paid for their builds?

If the price of 140K gives you a pause, the RV14 will most likely cost more than this, closer to 175K. I've spent close to 100K on my RV8 and it only has one EFIS panel and fixed pitched propeller. You can probably get financing in order and get a nice and well built RV7 for 140K
 
I did the pay as you go plan. It gets more difficult when you have the engine and avionic$ to purcha$e. I went with a single EFIS screen just to get flying. Last year after flying it for 6 years, I got the second screen (always planned on this). This year I'm adding more IFR bits. The paint job was another chunk of money, and I did that 3 years after flying. Upholstery waited almost a year after first flight. Oh, and I also put 3 kids through college with no debt during the same time frame. That cost about 5 times more than the airplane!
My biggest expense now is the hangar rent. Gas costs per hour to fly is reasonable and it doesn't limit my flight hours. Insurance was high for the first year and now has dropped a bit. Property taxes on the airplane are higher here in California and that is another yearly hit.
 
Please keep an exit plan always after plan B

I am going to start building an RV 14A starting this fall in Canada. I have ordered almost everything. Still a final workshop set up, aircraft interiors, a few upgrade items to the vans kit, paint, inspection (pre-cover and final), transport Canada formalities and so on and so forth are waiting to be done which adds to the costs apart from taxes, duties if any and transportation / handling as well as final testing.
In my estimate, this whole project of a finished RV 14A with IFR is going to cost me over US $ 210 k excluding my labour since I had gone a bit over board with Garmin GX3, A/C, Turtle Pac for long hauls. Luckily when I started dreaming of this project the C $ was 69 cents and is now hoovering around 83 cents.
My Plan A is to build a nice RV14A and have the plane and myself fully ready (Testing, TC airworthy certification, Trial runs, Training (IFR and semi aerobatics)) on my retirement day to take off and go mountain flying to the Rockies and on my way back do a few mini aerobatic manoeuvring at 10 k feet high to celebrate the transition of my 42 years of hard work to fun for the rest.
My plan B is to use the knowledge that I gain while doing this project could be used to support other builders using the worship and the tools to keep my cost down on hanger and operation. I asked a few builders around here and they charge C $150 k for building it for me after a waiting period of 10 to 12 months to complete it in 2500 hrs once started. I can consider this amount as my labour cost.
My exit plan is to sell my signature built plane after testing and fully operational and recover at the least 80% if not any profit since I am confident that inflation is going to take us by surprise soon.
Whatever I do, I will own it whether it is a good decision or a bad decision.
Hope I left-in here some aspects that might trigger some more ideas. Cheers !
 
Small bites helps

That's how I did it.
Kind of worked out to about 1 kit per year, over 5 1/2 years. Got my registration back about a month ago - N14ZT. Now getting ready for a DAR inspection, after total of 6 1/2 years.
I knew that I could not afford it all in one big bite, it worked out over the long haul.
But I'm a good bit over the 120-140 ticket price.
 
So, where are people coming in at with the total cost? Vans estimates it can be done for as low as 90k, which I highly doubt. Just the basic math puts it well over 100K. Some are saying over 200K. Being in Oregon I don't have to worry about the taxes that others may have and could probably save some on shipping (not sure). What are the hidden 75-100K in extra costs. 52K for kit. $45K for engine and lets say 40k at most for panel. then paint and interior. I am looking to build by the book and not add a lot of "options". I guess the would be closer to 150K.
I'm just starting out looking into this. The last thing I want to do is get into this build and then end up way over budget.
 
So, where are people coming in at with the total cost? Vans estimates it can be done for as low as 90k, which I highly doubt. Just the basic math puts it well over 100K. Some are saying over 200K. Being in Oregon I don't have to worry about the taxes that others may have and could probably save some on shipping (not sure). What are the hidden 75-100K in extra costs. 52K for kit. $45K for engine and lets say 40k at most for panel. then paint and interior. I am looking to build by the book and not add a lot of "options". I guess the would be closer to 150K.
I'm just starting out looking into this. The last thing I want to do is get into this build and then end up way over budget.

Did you include prop, firewall forward kit?
Lots of little things add up. Strobes/nav lights/landing lights. Antennas.
Around here a pro paint job is >$12K. Some nice interiors are expensive, too (at any rate you'll need seat covers of some kind).
Do you count tool costs? How about hangar costs? Do you plan on having ground insurance coverage during the build (theft, fire)?
I think DAR's are getting close to $1K around here now.
Do you count first year's insurance premium?
Taxes.
The list is endless....

Edit: I didn't mean to imply keeping the costs down is impossible. I painted (enamel) the plane myself, and it looks like it. No awards for me. I did a bare-bones interior (except the wife insisted I get a local upholstery guy to cover the seat foam in leather.). I wired the avionics myself, cut the panel myself. etc.
 
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RV14A costs are not really reflected in full

Sorry if I have exaggerated a bit earlier on basic cost and not on overall cost.
The 90k mentioned in Vans website may not be for the latest version of RV14A
What to include and what not to include while building a plane is of personal preference based on what one has planned to do with the plane and their own experience with flying different planes. So everyone has a different requirement.
That being said, i can make my plane just fit for purpose build by shaving off 10k on Avionics, 5k on Engine, 2k on prop, 8k by painting it myself, 7k by removing A/C, 5k by buying cushion from Vans and making seat covers myself and 3k by borrowing tools from near by EAA chapter and or friends, which amounts to 40k less. Still it is going to cost me 170k (min). This doesn't include TC inspection expenses, testing 40 to 50 hrs, registration, IFR certification, my labour cost for 2000 hrs. or the hanger expenses but includes all other expenses like workshop set up, 5% GST, Insurance, Transportation, Customs clearance and so on and so forth.
So it is real that it will cost over 170k to own a safe RV14A, whichever way you look at it.
Anyone can confirm what it costs by searching for any new RV14As' sold recently.
 
$$$$$$$

And if money is a big driver (it appears it is) u may want to consider a 7 or a 9. Lots of airplane for a lot less price.
And insurance - saw where someone here on VAF is selling their RV after one year because his insurance is too hi. Consider that too.
 
You can easily build a very nice 14 for $150K, including paint and an IFR Panel.

You can easily build a 14 for 200K+.

It is hard to build a 14 for $125K, but not impossible.

Paint pushed mine to $135K. Nice IFR panel, plain but comfortable seats, std engine and prop, including Illinois use tax of about $7K.

I started building in 2013 and prices have come up some since I bought but not enough to prevent someone from outfitting a 14 identical to mine under $150K.

I had a soft budget target of $125K and missed it by 10K. Not unexpectedly.

I had a pretty good idea of what is was going to cost going in and it didn't change that much and I added to my original plan along the way.

You should be able to pick a reasonable target and stick to it.
 
As others have indicated, planning on $120-140K for a new -14(A) is, at best, setting yourself up for major financial issues partway through the project. Considering only the current price structure, if you're going to use a new engine, new prop, factory FWF kit, and a first-class Garmin (or other modern) IFR glass panel, you'll be right around $175K before paint. A premium professional paint job could easily add $20K+ more.

Plan on $200K and put any extra toward the first year's insurance! :)
 
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I am sure this has been asked multiple times. Looking at the RV14. Of course the total build cost is a concern. I do OK financially, but 120-140K for a plane is a bit much. My plan is to buy the kits individually, maybe one a year. Tail and empennage. Then wings. Fuselage then finishing. That way I can spread out the costs to about 10-15K per year for 4 years or so. After that, Finance the engine and panel.
That is a rough plan. How have other's paid for their builds?

I started my build 32 years ago. (1988). I asked myself, IF someone gave me this airplane, how much could I afford to fly it? At that time, my answer is $75 a week. I had $75 each weekly pay check go into my savings account. When the airplane flew in September 1997, it was paid for.

I retired in 2013. Several years later, I wanted a new airplane. I again setup a budget to build an RV-8. This time, I put $1,000 a month into an account just for the airplane. I stole $28K from the account when I moved to a house with a detached hangar on an airpark. I am still funding the RV-8 build and will steal money out of a money market account that I stole from the airplane account when I need big ticket items.

IF you own your home free and clear, a HELC or 2nd mortgage may be something to think about. I do not like to pay interest but life is finite and one must get all the safe flying in possible without leaving nothing behind for those that are left.
 
Initial Budget vs. Cost

There are not many things to control the cost during a build.

Project's have construction budgets and project budgets, a petty cash budget for lot's of trips to NAPA and HomeDepot, and budgets for 'I wanna's' that appear out of the blue.

A project's budget at the start of a build that will take a few years to 7 or 8 years to finish will experience lots of creep for lots of reasons. The final cost will be more than the initial budget expectation.
 
I am sure this has been asked multiple times...

...How have other's paid for their builds?

I bought the empennage kit in 1998. Then, I just fit the build around my what and when I could afford.

Now, I find myself successfully unemployed, with the kids grown and on their own, no bills, and time to build.

I've sped up my build and bought all the expensive stuff I used to worry about way back when it was all a lot cheaper.
 
I started my build 32 years ago. (1988). I asked myself, IF someone gave me this airplane, how much could I afford to fly it? At that time, my answer is $75 a week. I had $75 each weekly pay check go into my savings account. When the airplane flew in September 1997, it was paid for.

I retired in 2013. Several years later, I wanted a new airplane. I again setup a budget to build an RV-8. This time, I put $1,000 a month into an account just for the airplane. I stole $28K from the account when I moved to a house with a detached hangar on an airpark. I am still funding the RV-8 build and will steal money out of a money market account that I stole from the airplane account when I need big ticket items.

This is almost exactly what I do. Put $1000/month into the "airplane fund". Mess up a part and need to re-order from Vans? That comes out of "airplane fund". Coming time to order the Finish Kit? Lets make sure there's enough in there for the kit. I picked $1000/month because that's what I realistically expect the total operating cost to be once the plane is flying. I'd hate to finish the plane on a shoe-string budget, then can't afford to fly it. So might as well spend at least "operating cost" money on the building budget.

I know this is an RV14 thread, but it's also an affordability thread. The RV7 and RV9 cost less to build and both accept smaller/cheaper engines. Unless there's a compelling reason to exclude both those models, that's one to make the build more affordable.
 
Like many, I intend on doing the pay-as-you-go method, at least until the engine and avionics. I understand the potential savings of purchasing the whole kit at once (shipping, annual price increases), but don't discount the changes that Van's makes in the kit over the years.... Most of the changes appear to be pretty minor, but there are changes nonetheless.

In hindsight, I probably should have ordered two empennage kits from the beginning... With the number of parts that I keep screwing up and having to order replacements, I would have been money ahead!
 
Another thing to keep in mind is finding kits and tools used on this site and others. Also you might have a builder near you who would be willing to loan you some of the more expensive tools once they got to know you. Also not for the kits but many of the other tid bits can be bought with a small discount during big airshows like Oshkosh (sometimes you have to ask for a deal).
 
I have been in construction and development of everything from tree forts to redeveloping a Colorado ski resort. One thing I almost never hear is I wish I got the cheaper tool, cabinets, counters or anything else.
My build took almost 7 years. The things I look back and question are my fake leather seats and my paint job. Both are acceptable but question my choices.

Good luck on your build and as long as you do good work, you will not lose money. If things start getting away from you there is always someone waiting for a project to take over.
 
The TLDR version: Go for it. If you're like most of us, your income will improve and your expenses will decrease as you get older.

I see it as a tortoise and the hare situation. I always had it in my mind that aircraft builders had tons of money and that if I didn't have that kind of money, then I had no business building an airplane. I've started 2 RV-8's and 1 RV-3. All were discontinued because I couldn't see how I'd ever have enough disposable income to finish a project.

Fast forward 10 years from when I sold my last project and I now have more money than time and wish I would have just pressed on with any of the above projects. I could've made a bit of progress here and there and probably would've had a completed airframe right at about the time my income shot up and my expenses tapered off. Instead, I'm now buying fun airplanes and motorcycles and am having a tough time taking a break from having fun to build an airplane. I'm accumulating all the bits and pieces to build an F1 Rocket, but am starting to wonder if I'll have to wait until I retire before I'll take time to build it!

It's wise to consider the cost estimates, but at the same time, take them with a grain of salt. Total "cost" is such a nebulous concept to pin down. Does it include the "loss" on the money because you spent $25k on Garmin avionics in March of 2020 instead of buying Disney at $86/share (now $175-ish)? Does it include the addition on your garage so you'll have a place to build? These are kinda extreme examples, but I've seen similar things included in total "cost."

I always think of this question when I listen to 2 of my friends talk about the total hourly cost of running their Cessna 421's. One claims it's somewhere north of $1,000/hr and the other swears it's around $300/hr. One is very anxious to impress his tennis buddies at the country club and the other is trying to sell his 421.
 
...and

"...I always think of this question when I listen to 2 of my friends talk about the total hourly cost of running their Cessna 421's. One claims it's somewhere north of $1,000/hr and the other swears it's around $300/hr. One is very anxious to impress his tennis buddies at the country club and the other is trying to sell his 421..."

Having owned a 421A for a long time, $300 an hour seems a bit low...

Figure 45 GPH at $5/gal and you are at $225 already. Then consider insurance, fixed maintenance, and a hangar...you are easily going to be above $300/hour.

Now if you have a later model 421 B or C, I can see the costs increasing...

...and, if you start adding in reserves for engines and props, well, $1000/hour might not be that far out of the ballpark.

Point is, they might BOTH be right, depending on what they are including in operating costs...

It is wise to look at the ongoing expenses when looking at getting into aircraft ownership. Not a good thing when you own this nice aircraft but cannot afford to fly it...
 
When I flew Navajos, I figured they were around $500-600/hr. We flew them for a charter operator, so utilization was pretty high (~1000hrs/yr) and fixed costs spread out dramatically. I'd believe $1000/hr for any big piston twin if utilization is more in line with an private owner. Especially for a C421 with the geared engines. $300/hr maybe for fuel and oil only.
 
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