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New LODA and DPEs

BobTurner

Well Known Member
The new LODA seems to authorize instruction for hire. What about designated pilot examiners? Can they be paid for giving practical tests in an EAB? I think they all hold a cfi. Is a practical test ‘instruction’?
 
Fun fact, being a CFI is not required to be a dpe. They are not providing any instruction during a practical test. And they are not being compensated to fly. I don't think the loda thing has anything to do with dpe's and practical tests.
 
The new LODA seems to authorize instruction for hire. What about designated pilot examiners? Can they be paid for giving practical tests in an EAB? I think they all hold a cfi. Is a practical test ‘instruction’?

EAA INFO:

Question:
What about DPEs? Do I need a LODA to get a practical test in my Experimental/Limited/Primary Category aircraft?

Answer:
DPEs act as a representative of the Administrator during practical tests, and are explicitly exempt from any limitation on carriage of persons or property for compensation or hire per 14 CFR 61.47(c).

source: https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-publications/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/07-13-2021-experimental-limited-and-primary-category-aircraft-flight-training-faqs
 
The new LODA seems to authorize instruction for hire. What about designated pilot examiners? Can they be paid for giving practical tests in an EAB? I think they all hold a cfi. Is a practical test ‘instruction’?

No. A practical test is not instruction. (In fact, apparently DPEs have long been admonished not to give instruction during a practical evaluation.) That has long been established. My understanding is that if you are paying a DPE for his evaluation, and no compensation is exchanged for use of the aircraft or arcraft expenses, you are well inside the rules. Where I live, most DPEs won't conduct practicals in experimental aircraft anyway.
 
EAA INFO:

Question:
What about DPEs? Do I need a LODA to get a practical test in my Experimental/Limited/Primary Category aircraft?

Answer:
DPEs act as a representative of the Administrator during practical tests, and are explicitly exempt from any limitation on carriage of persons or property for compensation or hire per 14 CFR 61.47(c).

source: https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-publications/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/07-13-2021-experimental-limited-and-primary-category-aircraft-flight-training-faqs

Ah, yes. Thanks for the answer.
 
My understanding is that if you are paying a DPE for his evaluation, and no compensation is exchanged for use of the aircraft or arcraft expenses, you are well inside the rules.

IMHO Carlos, above, posted the correct answer. Your argument is the one which the court specifically rejected.
 
IMHO Carlos, above, posted the correct answer. Your argument is the one which the court specifically rejected.

In this case, it's a difference without a distinction, perhaps.

I'm interested though. Please show me where the court rejected the fact that flight evaluation by a DPE does not constitute flight training.
 
I reached out to a DPE to arrange my son's check ride yesterday. DPE thought this new position could cause a problem. He reached out to OKC and got a green light from them.

Larry
 
In this case, it's a difference without a distinction, perhaps.

I'm interested though. Please show me where the court rejected the fact that flight evaluation by a DPE does not constitute flight training.

The court said nothing about DPEs because, as Carlo pointed out (and I had forgotten), FAR 61.47(c) specifically exempts them from any of the rules in question.
The basic ruling boils down to this: The old interpretation of the rules, endorsed by the faa, was ‘the owner could not be compensated for the use of the airplane’. The new interpretation, which the faa now says is correct, is ‘no one may be compensated for anything in which the airplane is involved’.
 
And they are not being compensated to fly.

Are we *sure*? Based on other threads about FAA interpretations, if they log it or record the exam or use it on their resume or annual performance review (if they are FAA employees), etc., etc., then they ARE being compensated, right?
 
Are we *sure*? Based on other threads about FAA interpretations, if they log it or record the exam or use it on their resume or annual performance review (if they are FAA employees), etc., etc., then they ARE being compensated, right?

See above, FAR 61.47 (c)
 
The court said nothing about DPEs because, as Carlo pointed out (and I had forgotten), FAR 61.47(c) specifically exempts them from any of the rules in question.
The basic ruling boils down to this: The old interpretation of the rules, endorsed by the faa, was ‘the owner could not be compensated for the use of the airplane’. The new interpretation, which the faa now says is correct, is ‘no one may be compensated for anything in which the airplane is involved’.

I have read the FAA's published "new" interpretation about 15 times. While I'm not a lawyer, I disagree with the interpretation you have put forth, but I think we do agree that it is a difference without a distinction, because any contrary interpretation is in fact nullified by the regulation cited by Carlos, above. None of the new guidance makes reference to anything but training. There is long existing guidance with regard to prohibition of for hire operations of experimental aircraft, so no real change there.
 
Last edited:
First, to be a DPE you must be a CFI (see order 8900.2C "A designee applicant must hold the appropriate level of certificate(s) and ratings that would allow the individual to provide flight instruction in that category, class, and type (if applicable) of aircraft. For example, an applicant who was applying for designation in helicopters would be required to hold at least a commercial pilot certificate with rotorcraft and helicopter ratings as well as a flight instructor certificate with rotorcraft and helicopter ratings.")
Secondly, there is no question that while acting as a DPE I am NEVER providing instruction.
Regarding the new LODA and all that stuff, I don't know what effect it will have on my giving checkrides in EAB. I have in the past, pending an inspection of the plane, but now I'll have to re-read the new order (8900.588) several times and chat with my fellow DPEs to figure out what to do.
 
OK, lets ask this another way. Can I pay a CFI to give me a Flight Review in my EAB aircraft?
 
The way I understand it as long as one of you have a LODA and I don't think that it matters which of y'all hold the LODA
 
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