What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Question regarding rear spar rivets (6-4)

Admittedly, I'm still extremely new to this whole plane building thing, but it seems like on page 6-4, where it calls out the rivets to use when building up the rear spar, that you would want longer rivets where the rudder hinge brackets are? Attached is the diagram. Starting at the top, the rivets will be going through the spar, the spar cap, and the hinge bracket, and the diagram calls for AN470AD4-5 rivets to be used. Then, below the hinge brackets, the rivet will only be going through the spar and the spar cap, but it still calls for AN470AD4-5 rivets there. Shouldn't the rivet that's going through 3 layers be longer than the one only going through 2, logically?

I squeezed one AN470AD4-5 through the hinge bracket holes, and in order to get the right diameter, I had to squeeze enough that the depth test fails (The shop head height is too short). Am I misinterpreting something in the instructions?

If I'm doing something stupid, just let me know :D
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2020-10-18 at 5.03.46 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2020-10-18 at 5.03.46 PM.png
    154.5 KB · Views: 135
There are times when Van's might not call out the correct rivet in all locations.
It's been awhile, but I vaguely recall replacing a couple of rivets on that assembly to longer ones after setting them didn't look correct.

After awhile you'll get a feel for how much a rivet should stick through the material to know it's reasonable. If in doubt, use a rivet gauge to make sure the length is right prior to setting it.
 
Rivet cutter

Either buy a few 1/2 size or buy a rivet cutter. I cut lots of rivets. By the way, I suspect it's a 4-6, not a 6-4. The latter is a big honkin' rivet! :D
 
Either buy a few 1/2 size or buy a rivet cutter. I cut lots of rivets. By the way, I suspect it's a 4-6, not a 6-4. The latter is a big honkin' rivet! :D

I think his reference to 6-4 was the page number, not the rivet size.
 
Thanks, guys. I'm still not convinced I'm doing something stupid here. I have read all the build logs and watched all the videos, and nobody has mentioned this, so I've got to assume I've done something wrong.

I'll look at it with fresh eyes tomorrow.
 
I don't recall the exact locations, but I do remember substituting some longer rivets and even cutting a few when working on the HS. Like you, I found there were a few places where the rivets on the callout proved to be a bit short when set. I followed advice given in numerous posts here and subbed as necessary. It wasn't many, as I remember.
 
Van's does call out here in Section 05-04:

We have chosen to use a rivet that may seem too short in some places, but will do the job adequately.

This may be one of those. Don't remember what I did for those rivets.
 
As I recall, there were numerous places the rivet callout was to short to meet proper shop head dimensions. Get yourself a rivet cutter and purchase a rivet kit with a variety of 3s and 4s. Either use the next length or cut to the correct length.

Btw, get some oops rivets just in case. Oops rivets have a larger shank but retain the smaller head. Vans sells them.
 
you want 1 1/2 times the rivet shank diameter sticking out before you squeeze to get the right size shop head. It is pretty easy to eye ball the correct length.
Make sure the material is tight together when checking for rivet length, and don't go any longer as they will almost always bend over rather than set properly. I'd rather be a touch short than have to drill them out.

I always swapped for the longer length if I found the call out to be a little short.
 
Wait until the instructions tell you to use a rivet size not included in the kit. I cut some rivets to fit and used a rivet gauge to verify correct length.
 
Rivet call outs

I am only a month into my RV-8 build, but there have been a couple places where Van’s calls for a shorter rivet than you can squeeze and get both the height and diameter of the finished rivet correct. In the RV-8 anywhere that they have said, “ the rivet call out in the plans is correct” has led to too short of a rivet. I am sure that engineering wise they are long enough, but too short to get the dimensions we are looking for. I have started measuring the rivets with a gauge before I set them, and if they are too short according to the gauge, I get a longer rivet. I am going to have to order some more rivets but I am okay with that.
 
Back
Top