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Failed start - then the panel went dark

lndwarrior

Well Known Member
Engine is a lycoming O-235 with a Marvel MA-3A carb. Battery is an Earthex ET680. The battery had been on an approved charger and the charger lights were in the green just prior to engine start.

I hit the start switch and the engine makes about a 1/4 turn and then stops dead. All power is gone from the panel.

I shut off the master switch.

I'm just about certain I've blown some fuse because everything went dark.

I wait about 30 seconds and turn on the master switch - and power comes back on the panel.

So I try the start switch and it fires up, although a bit sluggish for a fully charged battery. Engine seemed to run fine before I shut it down.

Any ideas what happened or what I should check? Never had anything like this before.

TIA
 
Sounds like it could be an intermittent fault in the circuit that controls the master switch solenoid.
 
If it is cold, you probably need to "warm up" the EarthX battery.

This is from their FAQ: "All batteries lose cranking amps in colder temperatures. Every make, model, and year of vehicles has different amounts of cranking amps needed to turn the engine over. You also have to factor in the health and maintenance of the vehicle as well. So the answer is…… it depends. Some vehicles have no issues starting at -25F while some could have issues at -5F. What is unique about a lithium battery is you can warm the internal components by simply trying to start your vehicle. Do not try starting your vehicle for more than 10 seconds per minute as that is not good for your vehicle or battery, but after attempting to start the vehicle, wait one minute, try again. Depending on the amount of warming up needed to get the desired cranking amps, the amount of times needed to do this varies."

When the temperature drops below 35F, I have to do this to start my Rotax 914. I attempt to start and I get less than one revolution of the prop. I wait 60 seconds and it will spin over like in warm weather and start right up.

The first time I had the problem I corresponded with EarthX and was told to do this.

Jim Butcher
 
It was 55 degrees out

If it is cold, you probably need to "warm up" the EarthX battery.

This is from their FAQ: "All batteries lose cranking amps in colder temperatures. Every make, model, and year of vehicles has different amounts of cranking amps needed to turn the engine over. You also have to factor in the health and maintenance of the vehicle as well. So the answer is…… it depends. Some vehicles have no issues starting at -25F while some could have issues at -5F. What is unique about a lithium battery is you can warm the internal components by simply trying to start your vehicle. Do not try starting your vehicle for more than 10 seconds per minute as that is not good for your vehicle or battery, but after attempting to start the vehicle, wait one minute, try again. Depending on the amount of warming up needed to get the desired cranking amps, the amount of times needed to do this varies."

When the temperature drops below 35F, I have to do this to start my Rotax 914. I attempt to start and I get less than one revolution of the prop. I wait 60 seconds and it will spin over like in warm weather and start right up.

The first time I had the problem I corresponded with EarthX and was told to do this.

Jim Butcher

The temperature was 55 degrees. Also, not sure why that would cut all power to the panel.
 
Could be an issue with the battery. When it shut off did you lose ALL power? The BRS automatically resets after a short time. Battery sounds likely. A call to Kathy at EarthX is in order.
 
Could be an issue with the battery. When it shut off did you lose ALL power? The BRS automatically resets after a short time. Battery sounds likely. A call to Kathy at EarthX is in order.

I have had this happen on one of our planes with an EarthX - the BMS apparently “shuts off” the output to protect the battery from an excessive draw. After a minute, it resets and you can try again. We had a very early serial number EarthX in this plane, and our previous partner had managed to kill it a couple of times playing with avionics in the hangar, so it had seen some abuse. EarthX replaced it, and we have had no further issues with it - but the symptoms you are seeing sound the same. I’d call EarthX!
 
EarthX

I have had this happen on one of our planes with an EarthX - the BMS apparently “shuts off” the output to protect the battery from an excessive draw. After a minute, it resets and you can try again. We had a very early serial number EarthX in this plane, and our previous partner had managed to kill it a couple of times playing with avionics in the hangar, so it had seen some abuse. EarthX replaced it, and we have had no further issues with it - but the symptoms you are seeing sound the same. I’d call EarthX!

That's interesting. I seem to have an ongoing problem keeping this battery charged, even though I fly pretty regularly, and it doesn't get very cold here. This has been going on for a long time (more than a year).

About 2 years ago it did get fully drained when I left the e-bus switch on.

I also use the recommended Optima charger, though I don't leave it on trickle charge all the time.

I've also been through the entire electrical system to ensure there is no parasitic drain.

Is it possible/likely that a master contactor would have some glitch like this? I did check for loose connections on it only a couple of days before this occurrence, so I doubt it is a loose wire. It seems to me that there are limited possibilities when all power drops off during start-up - and then returns and acts normal a few seconds later.
 
Guys, "previous partner had managed to kill it a couple of times" and "fully drained", doesn't seem right. Doesn't the BMS cut output at a certain minimum voltage specifically to prevent battery damage?
 
Guys, "previous partner had managed to kill it a couple of times" and "fully drained", doesn't seem right. Doesn't the BMS cut output at a certain minimum voltage specifically to prevent battery damage?

Yes - it was drained to the point where the BMS shut it off in our case. Did it result in damage? Can’t honestly tell you.....but we did subsequently experience the “shut off” during start.

Cause and effect?? Can’t say for certain.
 
Earthx cutout

My Earthx cut power once. It was an unpleasant experience. Shouldn’t have happened, but it did. The BMS can be a little snot sometimes.
 
Had this on a motorcycle, but maybe it applies?

I had something similar in the middle of a motorcycle road trip. Keep in mind my plane isn’t finished and I know nothing about EarthX batteries. Everything tested fine with the multimeter I had in the bag, but when I attempted to start, it all went dead... switched the battery, changed a spare for a lady in a similarly bad situation in exchange for a jump start, and that battery lasted for the next 2 years, which is about normal.

Things just seemed to go dead when there was a high electrical load, but cycling power to the motorcycle brought all low current devices back. Could be something similar, but keep in mind I have no experience with EarthX batteries.

Good luck,
Sam
 
I know nothing about Lithium batteries, nor about low temperature starts, but another avenue to check out would be a faulty connection, most likely in the earth side of the system. A quick check may save time and money.
 
The starter solenoid, master, and the complete starter circuit can quickly be eliminated by a starter circuit voltage drop test. If the drop test passes during a slow crank event, it is the battery.
I would think YouTube probably has the procedure. Much easier than writing it out, but a simple test that is often overlooked.
 
The starter solenoid, master, and the complete starter circuit can quickly be eliminated by a starter circuit voltage drop test. If the drop test passes during a slow crank event, it is the battery.
I would think YouTube probably has the procedure. Much easier than writing it out, but a simple test that is often overlooked.

If the engine started right up one minute after the failed start, in not sure one of these would be the cause. If so, it must have been intermittent for some reason which wouldn't necessarily show up on subsequent drop test.
 
Spoke with Kathy - Issue Resolved

Spoke with Kathy and, after a number for questions on my history with the battery (a couple of times running it dead over the past 2 years), she recommended a new battery. I've gone ahead an ordered a new one.

Very happy with EarthX in general, and Kathy in particular. They are very knowledgeable and responsive.
 
Spoke with Kathy and, after a number for questions on my history with the battery (a couple of times running it dead over the past 2 years), she recommended a new battery.

Again, the Earthx literature says the BMS is designed to disconnect the output at 5% of capacity, aka around 11.5 volts, specifically to protect the battery. Put another way, you can't "run it dead", but rather only to the preset voltage level. A BMS-driven disconnect should not be a lifespan issue.
 
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