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Checklist usage?

What kind of checklist do you use?

  • Checklist from memory

    Votes: 67 22.5%
  • Printed manufacturer's checklist

    Votes: 26 8.7%
  • Electronic (PDA device) manufacturer's checklist

    Votes: 4 1.3%
  • Printed custom checklist

    Votes: 198 66.4%
  • Electronic (PDA device) custom checklist

    Votes: 18 6.0%

  • Total voters
    298
I'll be blunt -

In the test flying world we have a saying, "Change is the Mother Of all Mishaps"

Checklists are a hedge against unintentional change.

Purposefully not using a checklist = complacency

Complacency is a leading causal factor in judgement related mishaps.

We all learned during our first flight lessons to use the checklist, the FAA examiners expect them, airlines, military and other commercial aviation enterprises require them...

Seriously, is it really such a burdon?

You are fooling yourself in thinking its ok to not use them. Its not smart. You will forget something without them and it may be the the last hole in the swiss cheese of events aligning such that the next mishap is your own.

Ken
 
Bravo!

You are fooling yourself in thinking its ok to not use them. Its not smart. You will forget something without them and it may be the the last hole in the swiss cheese of events aligning such that the next mishap is your own. Ken

Very well stated Ken. The checklist issue is about "that last hole in the swiss cheese aligning" or "breaking the chain" of events leading to the crash. Several statements on this thread about single item errors and how they were "no big deal." The problems start when a couple of screw-ups combine and create an ugly scene. Break the chain, use a checklist.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Flow and Mnemonics

If you need to write it down, great. Personally, I like my head out of the cockpit. I fly a lot of formation. Not a good idea to have your head down too much.
I think written checklists are a great study aid. I used one before I ever took my first flight while I sat in the cockpit and familiarized myself with every knob and procedure so I could do it with my eyes closed. They now sit in my flight bag and occasionaly I review them for practice.
This thread will never die, I am convinced.
 
Personal attacks, back biting and bickering are not tolerated in this forum. Express your valuable experiences and beliefs in a nonconfrontational manner.

Roberta
 
really?

I'll be blunt....................

Purposefully not using a checklist = complacency
...............

Ken

Maybe its a well reasoned choice.
I think it is dangerous to read a checklist in a busy traffic pattern.
Or, motor quits at 500 AGL on takeoff. You read your checklist, I'll land my airplane, guess who lives.
 
totally agree..

There is a good time to read a checklist and a bad time to read a checklist.. But having them and using them when appropriate is the focus of the discussion. THe statement "I don't use checklists" is what got this all started.

Some procedures should simply be memorized such as the immediate response items during an emergency: for an engine failure on takeoff I use "Dump, Suck and Point" - Dump = lower the nose , Suck = raise gear and/or flaps, Point=turn towards landing area. However, I still have a checklist for this emergency for review purposes.

Other procedures should be accomplished through use of a checklist such as routine cockpit admin tasks. These are the areas that will get pilots in trouble.
 
Please use a checklist to verify you have done the items most important to flight. Those in the industry who are human factors specialists all agree with me and the FAA does too. There is a reasoning behind their logic.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Maybe its a well reasoned choice.
I think it is dangerous to read a checklist in a busy traffic pattern.
Or, motor quits at 500 AGL on takeoff. You read your checklist, I'll land my airplane, guess who lives.

Just because there are times when it's appropriate to fly the plane instead of pulling a checklist out (aviate, navigate, communicate in the order :D) does not mean a pilot shouldn't have a checklist and make use of it at the appropriate time. A checklist for a plane like an RV doesn't even have to be much bigger than a 3x5 card with a few "killer" items for each phase of flight - it certainly doesn't have to be a book. Complete the checklist at a time that is appropriate and you won't end up telling stories like some of the guys on here about how they forgot something and it bit them.
 
My abbreviated "pre-takeoff" checklist. It's short, but includes items I or others I know have missed, skipped, forgot, etc. at least once in their life.
This is small, handy, and laminated.

I use the mental GUMPS for landing.

P.S. --- Abbreviated is spelled correctly on newer checklist. I to an E.:)


http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/1776/img0394n.jpg

L.Adamson
 
My check list is the manufacturers + my own notations. I dont deviate from the manufacturers at all...just add my own safety envelope to it.
 
Read Do / Do Verify

This is actually making me a little sick to my stomach. I would never not use a checklist. Not only for me, but for my family.

I fly around 700 hours a year, and I miss items every day. My flows are verified by the checklist. It is not because I am a bad pilot, it is because there are some things beyond my control. You can be the best/smartest pilot out there. You never know when some situation could distract you no matter how minute it could be. I have never flown an RV. I wish to someday, and hopefully turn into a builder. Teaching in "lesser" aircraft I have seen many students get caught up in poor checklist usage. More than one time these probably would have resulted in incidents/accidents. Not only primary students but Commercial and CFI candidates. "Trap the Error."

If you are concerned about emergency actions at low level, how about create some "Memory Items" to deal with the situation, then practice them. Proceed to the checklist after the items are complete if you have time to make sure you did not miss anything.


I am sorry for the rant. It is only because I care about making this a safe hobby/lifestyle. Maybe I am too much of a wimp.

Ryan
 
Its a matter of degree

Just because there are times when it's appropriate to fly the plane instead of pulling a checklist out (aviate, navigate, communicate in the order :D) does not mean a pilot shouldn't have a checklist and make use of it at the appropriate time. .........................

That statement I agree with, but "appropriate time" is subjective.

If you read your before landing checklist at 5000 AGL and then operate in the pattern from memory, then you are operating from memory. That is not fundamentally different from reviewing it in your living room before flight and then operating from memory. Its just a matter of the time lag between the last review and memory recall.

I guess most pilots use some form of hybrid approach to check lists, but there was no such option in this poll.

As I wrote in my first post, I have a custom check list, but rarely refer to it in flight. Except the "before takeoff" checklist, which I always refer to.

When I'm flying an unfamiliar airplane I keep an abbreviated checklist handy (and use it) for procedures and airspeeds because I don't trust my memory on something I do infrequently. Messing with the checklists in flight makes me a less safe pilot in these airplanes.

Ideally, I would have a screen on the panel in which I could pull up a custom checklist which was easily visible, but did not interfere with any flight instruments. In that case only a glance would be required to get action reminders. I don't have one of those.

Anyway, I don't claim to have found the ideal balance between memory and reading in terms of checklist safety, but its one that seems to be working. I frequent this site and subscribe to several aviation publications to continually refine my thoughts on all safety subjects. This one included.
 
Ideally, I would have a screen on the panel in which I could pull up a custom checklist which was easily visible, but did not interfere with any flight instruments. In that case only a glance would be required to get action reminders. I don't have one of those.

This is a very good way to do it IMHO. I used an electronic checklist displayed on one of the screens for many years at work.
It was always notable, when the electronic checklist was not working and we had to revert to paper, how clumsy and intrusive it felt after being used to the electronic.
I have a similar set up with the Vertical Power on my RV. I control it with a button on the stick. Works great. Someone mentioned memory items for those few things that require very fast and accurate response, and that is pretty much the way the pro's do it. The list of emergencies requiring lightning fast response is pretty short. A quick response that is the wrong response can make things a whole lot worse than the original problem.
Wasn't there an old joke about the brand new First Officer asking the seasoned Captain "what is the first thing you do in an emergency?" and the crusty old Captain responded "I wind my watch!"
 
Mechanical Checklist

I’d love a mechanical check list (slide or flip the toggle when done) for the before takeoff and before landing checklists. These have worked well as a visual reminder, hard to miss an item, on other airplanes.
Anyone seen one of these that could be used/adapted for an RV8?
 
I’d love a mechanical check list (slide or flip the toggle when done) for the before takeoff and before landing checklists. These have worked well as a visual reminder, hard to miss an item, on other airplanes.
Anyone seen one of these that could be used/adapted for an RV8?

Most ipad checklist apps will do this.

If your RV-8 is like mine, there are only a few things that if missed will kill you, and I focus on those. Flight controls free and correct, canopy latched. I typically check these three times - before starting, before run-up, and as I take the runway.

I made my switchology "idiot-proof" (all switches up to fly), but I'm a pretty good idiot, so I have taken off with my electric fuel pump off. I regularly forget to turn it off until I'm in cruise, I confess.

I have also tried to take off with my pitot and fuel vent covers on. The noise of them slapping the bottom of the aircraft when I pushed the throttle open told me something was wrong so I was able to abort the takeoff.

My checklist is a simple, A5 double-sided, laminated card, easily accessible, so I have no excuse not to use it.

I find for me the challenge is complacency, but also, when something is different. Flying out of a fly-in, a new airport, busy day, etc. Anything that changes my normal routine can cause a missed item, so I take extra care when things are different.

I may have mentioned this before, but I have a "three strikes" rule - if I make 3 "mistakes" before takeoff I stand down. Just the threat of this increases my concentration - I don't want to sheepishly taxi back to the hangar and not fly, but I've promised myself I will enforce this.
 
I understand/agree about distractions that cause missed checklist items. This is why a glance at a mechanical checklist can confirm everything is completed. I use a DYNON Skyview and don't always use an iPad, so Checklist on iPad doesn't work for me.
 
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