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VPX thoughts

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Ladies, Gentlemen:

I am finishing specs on my current build Glasair III RG. I built and flew an F1 Rocket that had Blue Mountain EFIS 1 then Dynon 10" Skyview with Truetrak EFIS SG as a backup to replace the Blue Mountain.

I gave my history to launch into my question. I am considering Vertical Power Pro unit for breakers. It will support 2 screen 10" G3X with all the usual suspects in the background. I don't want to repeat my Blue Mountain orphan story if VPX is not a long term keeper. Will the new parent company keep the product and support it? Are they experimental savvy?

What are folks experience with the VPX pro in terms of reliability and support? Thanks guys I turned to this forum due to its size vs the Glasair board.

Regards
Howard Rhodes
 
Astronics seems to be committed to keeping Vertical Power up and running. They even hired Chad Jensen away from the EAA to be their experimental support person. Chad built his own RV7 and seems to have really come up to speed on supporting the VP-X product line.

As for reliability, my VP-X Pro has been rock solid. It does everything they say it will and just works flight after flight. It is so well integrated with the G3X that it is sometimes easy to forget that it is a separate system. As for support, I really have not had any reason to need any serious support but I know that Chad is there to cover me if I do.
 
My experiences are very similiar to Brian's. I've also known Chad long before he worked Astronics and EAA. I have the VPX in my RV-10 and like it very much.
 
I had some teething pain with my VP-X unit, but they fixed it twice and then when it went out the third time replaced it under warranty. The new unit has been rock solid.

I really like the unit and it makes wiring really simple. The integration with my Skyview system is great. No complaints except having to be grounded when it is out. It is a rather vital part of your electrical system. :D

Bottom line is I would install it again.
 
I would probably not install this system. Yes, it has some neat features, but I would not want a single point electrical control system. I just did a Glasair III dual G3X touch panel with standard circuit breakers and it took no more effort than what this system would take to install IMO. While I cannot configure it to wig/wag lights or anything like that, I have a very stable and simple system with an automatic battery backup.

If this company ever does go under and no longer supports the product you are then faced with redoing your whole panel. If it goes out on the road you are stuck until it can be fixed. Just does not make sense to me.
 
Best thing since sliced bread.

I have the VPX in my RV6.

Very simple installation with excellent install manual!

I have not had one single problem with it in my 52hrs using it. The customization is unbelievable with flap speed, wig wag, current monitoring faults, total power usage etc that I would not build without it!

In regards to single point of failure.

I can disconnect the VPX entirely and still fly to my destination safely with backup instruments, independent magnetos, backup battery for efis...

You will not regret getting one!
 
If it goes out on the road you are stuck until it can be fixed.

In my case there are backup switches for the EFIS, GNS430, and the boost pump. My ADI has a battery backup and the 696 GPS will operate on its own battery as well (I have a VP-200 but the technology is similar).

The point is to design out the single point of failures for this technology as we do for any other.

The one disappointment I have had is the VP-200 was discontinued before all the promised features were implemented. However that was prior to Astronics acquisition of the product line. I understand that support is still available, however I have not needed to make any use of that in the 55 hours I have flown with the VP-200 - it just works. Someone should buy the IP and start making these specific boxes again.
 
I have the VPX installed with about 400 hours on the system. It is one of the greatest innovations to come along in a long time. The VPX has dual independent busses. In addition I have two redundant independent busses, the secondary bus utilizes a fuse block. I have been more than pleased with the reliability, performance and integration with my G3X system
Having said that, I always worry that someday this will be an unsupported product. I've even considered buying a spare just in case!
 
thumbs up

Although I am not yet flying I have had the pleasure of dealing with their support (post sale) purely out of my stupidity. This was well after the warranty was up on my unit... free of charge. I had purchased it in 2009/2010 and never even unboxed it till 2014.

I'm embarrassed to say that I used male pins in place of what should have been the female pins when wiring up a test harness to configure the unit. It wouldn't power up (pin's didn't make contact) so I thought it was DOA. I shipped it back to them and they bench tested the unit and found no issues. It took me about 10 minutes once it came back to discover why it still wouldn't work after their blessing it.

Moral of the story it helps to understand male vs female :) when mating!

If my unit crapped out on a trip and it could not be repaired/replaced I'd be able to fly on my backups as well. The hardest part would be the loss of trim and flaps. Flaps would be pretty easy to re-route the wiring but trim would be a bit more involved.
 
runaway trim features

Sounds like there are satisfied customers for sure.

How do you handle a trim runaway failure?

From the manual...

"If you discover the trim or flaps running un-commanded, push and hold
the opposite button to immediately stop the motor... After 3 seconds, the affected circuit faults and you can release the button.
A faulted circuit does the following:
? The input switches for the faulted axis are disabled
? An alarm message is shown on the screen
? The EFIS may display soft keys that allow you to run the trim
from the display"
 
I am at the point of planning the electrical and avionics system for my -7 and am planning to use the VPX (pro or sport not sure yet) but I have in the back of my mind a feeling that I heard or read somewhere that they are working on a new product.

I don't wont to buy the old one just as the upgrade comes out, does anyone have any news on this or was it just my imagination.

Also I see the Advanced EFIS system uses a similar power distribution system, is this the same as VPX and is it available as a stand alone item, if so how does it compare? Both cost and usage?
 
The new product you're referring to is probably the PPS, the new master contactor replacement, not a VP-X replacement.

I have a VP-X sport and have been very happy with it. The only issue I've had was one of the mounting nuts internal to the unit stripped so I couldn't get the screw out. Shipped it back to Vertical Power and was covered under warranty, no questions asked.
 
Runaway Trim management

For example, if the pitch trim begins to ?run away,? hold down the
opposite pitch trim switch (a natural reaction, by the way) until the fault
shows on the screen. When it does, the switches are disabled.
After a runaway condition, you can re-enable the trim or flap circuit by
selecting it from the list of items on the EFIS electrical page and press
the ?Re-Enable? soft key. You cannot re-enable the trim or flaps if a
switch input is active.

Great product, very easy to build in total redundancy if you want to go that far.
 
I am also one of the orphaned VP-200 owners, but I would not want to build another panel from the ground up without the VP-X. Especially for the non-professional DIYer, the VP-X takes a lot of the guess-work out. It also gives you features and information that you wouldn't get with a standard electrical system.

The AFS box is very different in some ways, but similar in other ways. It also takes a lot of the guesswork out because all of the power wiring comes from the same box, but it uses fuses, not solid state breakers. It also provides a hub for all of the avionics connections. It also provides switch panels. In short, it is very different than the VP-X, but for the DIY panel builder, it does simplify things by removing most of the guesswork.
 
I am at the point of planning the electrical and avionics system for my -7 and am planning to use the VPX (pro or sport not sure yet) but I have in the back of my mind a feeling that I heard or read somewhere that they are working on a new product.

I don't wont to buy the old one just as the upgrade comes out, does anyone have any news on this or was it just my imagination.

Also I see the Advanced EFIS system uses a similar power distribution system, is this the same as VPX and is it available as a stand alone item, if so how does it compare? Both cost and usage?

I had no idea what I was talking about and Rob corrected me in a later post. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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If I build another 50 RV's, every one of them would have a VPX in it. In a former life I was in R&D electronics so wiring the old way puts no fear in me at all but I would choose the VPX every time. Fantastic tech, well proven. Would Garmin, AFS, Dynon etc invest any time building it into their screens if they didn't believe in it?

My prop is a single point of failure as are a lot of engine parts, my left tire and the right one too for that matter can all fail and leave me stranded or worse. We fly a thousand single points of failure and most of them would result in a worse day than anything that can go wrong in a VPX.
 
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Sounds like there are satisfied customers for sure.

How do you handle a trim runaway failure?

Runaway trim protection is built in. You can also set limits on how long the trim motor will run with each activation of the switch. This requires no user interaction if the switch gets stuck. It will run for the time limit and stop.
 
Sorry it took me a while to jump in on this thread folks...was out last night. Astronics purchased the VP products to keep them in production and expand their market with the products already offered by Ballard Technology, a company in business for 25+ years in the aerospace industry making data collection and buss boxes. I wouldn't have bet my career on it if I didn't think they would be around for another 25+ years. The company is doing very well and the VP product line is performing as they expected it would.

The VPX will not be replaced...there is talk of additional models, but the Sport and Pro will continue to be produced. The new product is the PPS, as mentioned, and there is so much work being done on this right now. I am very excited about the launch of it this year!

Anyway, to try and alleviate your concerns, I'm here to help however I can, and I plan to be doing just that for a long time.:cool:
 
It definitely is a neat product, but I guess I am old school on some things. While I have G3X touch and electronic ignition I still have a backup mag and circuit breakers I can pull.

I do see why this product is desirable - just not for me.

This is what is great about EA-B - the ability to come up with products like this without interference. Some of these products fail like the Blue Mountain stuff and others become something really useful at prices that are acceptable. It's all good.
 
THX!

Thank you all for your feedback, this forum is remarkable regarding civility and EAB reach. My conclusion is VPX is not a Blue Mountain meltdown candidate and a solid product(s).
 
VPX

I've about 155 hrs on mine- It just works- as advertised, the features for controlling trim, flaps, lights are hard to beat if you want those options. Between VPX & Approach fast stack hub a complex IFR panel is simple to assemble and wire. I'd do it the same way next time.
 
Great product

I've installed a VP-X in my new 7. Also used the Approach Systems Hub. Wiring was quite easy. Remember there are two busses in the system. The equipment is split between the two busses. Not really sure what could fail.

The flexibility and features save weight time and complexity. Dual rate trim function, flap functions, wigwags, dual busses, etc....

The "single point of failure" logic always cracks me up. People get so focused on redundancy they don't realize they are building in more possible points of failure.

The truth of the matter is the "single point of failure," is the meat servo sitting in the pilots seat!!!!:eek:
 
While they may be working on a VP-X replacement project (most manufactures are always innovating but who knows), the product you are referring to is not a VP-X type device as mentioned above.

The AFS box is very different from the VP-X and it is a totally passive device. Think fancy junction block with fuses. Nice product for sure but not the same as the VP-X.

Brian, I think you have been hanging out with Duke too long… 

The ACM “Advanced Control Module” is not “a totally passive device” it has a CPU and the same switching technology as the VPX. The ACM is a Dynon Skyview Network device that plugs into the Network just like all the other Dynon modules. The ACM CPU controls all the aircraft lighting, flap positioning, dimming and ARINC communication with an External GPS Navigator. Since the ACM has a built in ARINC module it eliminates the need to mount and wire an external module. The ACM also has a built in 4 port Skyview Network Hub that is internally connected to the Autopilot Servos eliminating another external component.

Since the ACM plug & play harnesses have the power, audio and data for the external device it makes it very easy to wire an engineered and reliable panel. It also makes it extremely easy to upgrade devices in a panel. Last week we had a panel with a GTN650 that we wanted to try with the new Avidyne IFD540, it took us less than 5 minutes to “rewire” the panel for it and it worked the first time.

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems Inc. – A Dynon Avionics Company.
N402RH RV-10
 
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Brian, I think you have been hanging out with Duke too long… 

The ACM “Advanced Control Module” is not “a totally passive device” it has a CPU and the same switching technology as the VPX. The ACM is a Dynon Skyview Network device that plugs into the Network just like all the other Dynon modules. The ACM CPU controls all the aircraft lighting, flap positioning, dimming and ARINC communication with an External GPS Navigator. Since the ACM has a built in ARINC module it eliminates the need to mount and wire an external module. The ACM also has a built in 4 port Skyview Network Hub that is internally connected to the Autopilot Servos eliminating another external component.

Since the ACM plug & play harnesses have the power, audio and data for the external device it makes it very easy to wire an engineered and reliable panel. It also makes it extremely easy to upgrade devices in a panel. Last week we had a panel with a GTN650 that we wanted to try with the new Avidyne IFD540, it took us less than 5 minutes to “rewire” the panel for it and it worked the first time.

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems Inc. – A Dynon Avionics Company.
N402RH RV-10

"Brian, I think you have been hanging out with Duke too long…"

Maybe, I stand corrected. Sorry for my error and confusion.

Must have made that post after a long treadmill run or something.:p I edited my post with a retraction of my comments.

I am a guy that likes and appreciates products like VP-X & ACM although with your information it seems that the ACM is more like a mix of VP-X like functionality and that of the Faststack product.

Question: Can the ACM monitor voltage, current and faults and serve it up to the EFIS similar to that of the VP-X?

I agree with some of the others, build a version of this that is less Dynon/AFS specific and others will come with money in their hand!
 
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No...the VPX does not do anything with engine info other than rpm...but it receives that from the EFIS.
 
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