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Paint quote sanity check

Dean Pichon

Well Known Member
Hi All,

I have a single quote to re-paint my -4. It's just over $11K for the 3 color (DuPont Imron) scheme shown below. I'm wondering if any of the 1 or 2-seat builders have any recent experience to help me assess this number?

RV-Paint.jpg


Thanks,

Dean
 
Price sounds good if the quality of the finished product is good. My only problem is Imron has very low solvent resistance, MEK and a shop towel will let you wipe it off in a few minutes (my experience from 34 years in the coatings removal business). I would pay extra to get a full catalyzed urethane paint.
 
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Imron is a catalyzed urothane paint.


MEK will not easily penetrate it.
It doesn't come off easily with most solvents after normal cure

Judge on recent posts:
11K is very good deal if they do quality work.
15K-25K is not uncommon for the top shops to charge
 
Paint quote

Had my RV-12 done in 3 colors using aircraft paint by the guys at Planeperfection based at 3A4 - Southeast Greensboro.

$9500
 

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If the shop’s quality is good, a strip and repaint is a great deal at $11k. Even a straight up paint job is a good deal at 11k if the quality is good.
 
Paint quality

This will turn into a primer vs no primer if not careful. Highly suggest you look firsthand at 3 or 4 airframes they have painted. I've seen "professional" painters I would have paid them not to paint my airframe or the customers airframe they just charged 12k for. After we invest thousands of hours building it's up to builders to decide what is the value, we get from a paint shop.
 
Nice paint scheme

By the way like your paint scheme and yes 11k for a strip and paint job that is good quality I feel is a great deal.
 
That scheme, assuming gray base and not metallic, on a new build would be about $12k. Stripping adds $1k and one week.
 
Dean,
Keep us up to date on what you do and if it turns out well assuming you go with the shop that quoted your job.

Glenn Wilkinson
 
Dis-Assembly/Re-Assembly

My plane was painted at Boss Aircraft Refinishers (Salisbury, NC) and they required that I dis-assemble and re-assemble the plane myself. Confirm with the shops whether they have that requirement, or if there is a possible price adjustment for the owner assisted dis-assembly.
In the end, although it took a lot of personal time in their hangar away from home, I was glad to know that the correct number of washers/spacers went back on the control surface connections, etc.
 
I got three quotes to paint my -10, the lowest is 18k and the highest is 28.5k. When I ask why so much more that my previous airplanes, the painters give me the response that the price difference is due to 2 vs 4 seater. I’m scratching my head as it’s not that much more square footage or in materials or time, that I can see.

I think 11k is a fair price for a quality job.
 
I got three quotes to paint my -10, the lowest is 18k and the highest is 28.5k. When I ask why so much more that my previous airplanes, the painters give me the response that the price difference is due to 2 vs 4 seater. I’m scratching my head as it’s not that much more square footage or in materials or time, that I can see.

I think 11k is a fair price for a quality job.

Dang, a -10 should be $14k range.
 
I’m scratching my head as it’s not that much more square footage or in materials or time, that I can see.
More than you think. I experience the difference every time I wash my Navion vs my RV-6. Wait until you have to lay your hands on every square inch.
 
Agree - its a good deal

I'll jump on the bandwagon and say that assuming its a reputable shop with references and examples of other paint jobs that meet your expectations, that's a fair price. Ask a lot of questions about the prep work and do a thorough walk-around with the shop when you drop it off. If there is a lot of bodywork required to fix things, expect to pay for those, or at least have an agreement about what's fixed and what's not. Aviation Consumer has a ton of articles on how to choose a reputable paint shop, what to look for, and what you should expect to pay - they do an article on it every year.
 
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Unrealistic expectations?

Dang, a -10 should be $14k range.

For a 10 or 20 foot paint job, maybe. Show quality paint is a lot more than that.

Some of the really high quality paints are pushing $1000 per gallon.

Material costs alone for an RV-10 at the paint shop I use in Alabama were published at $8750. This was in March of this year.

What builders paid even a couple of years ago for paint jobs has little relevance today.
 
Do quotes from airplane paint shops typically include things like:

  1. Disassembly/reassembly of things that get painted separately
  2. Taping and masking
  3. Fixing fiberglass pinholes and other small cosmetic filling
  4. Reapplying N numbers and other external placards
  5. Re-weighing

Or are these extra work for the builder/owner?
 
Do quotes from airplane paint shops typically include things like:

  1. Disassembly/reassembly of things that get painted separately
  2. Taping and masking
  3. Fixing fiberglass pinholes and other small cosmetic filling
  4. Reapplying N numbers and other external placards
  5. Re-weighing

Or are these extra work for the builder/owner?

My quote included 1-4, but not 5. I have asked for a cost to re-weigh the plane which has not been done since the first time it was painted (21 years ago).

If the price seems high, I may try to borrow scales and do it my self. Apparently draining the fuel is the norm before re-weighing. I had hoped to simply top off the tanks and subtract out the 16 gallons per side. Others have suggested this method would lack necessary accuracy. I'm still debating this detail. The 32 gallon tank capacity is accurate to with a faction of a gallon. The density does vary significantly with temperature, but if I know the gas temp when the aircraft is weighed, I can compensate...
 
For a 10 or 20 foot paint job, maybe. Show quality paint is a lot more than that.

Some of the really high quality paints are pushing $1000 per gallon.

Material costs alone for an RV-10 at the paint shop I use in Alabama were published at $8750. This was in March of this year.

What builders paid even a couple of years ago for paint jobs has little relevance today.

Yes, this^^^^

…and the material costs are still rising. Just delivered my -10 to that little shop in AL. Can’t wait to see the result!
 
I think $11K is a fair price. That’s what I’m paying for my RV6 - 3 colors, single stage. It goes in next week.
 
For a 10 or 20 foot paint job, maybe. Show quality paint is a lot more than that.

Some of the really high quality paints are pushing $1000 per gallon.

Material costs alone for an RV-10 at the paint shop I use in Alabama were published at $8750. This was in March of this year.

What builders paid even a couple of years ago for paint jobs has little relevance today.

Wow. $8750. The quote I received included a line item break-out for the paint which was $1500 (for primer and 3 Imron colors). The paint stripper was not included in the $1500 break-out, but is included in the $11K total. The painter mentioned to me that stripper is expensive (~$2500 for a 55 gallon drum which is enough for 3 aircraft). Even if an RV-10 has twice the area of a -4, our numbers don't scale. Perhaps more colors, clearcoat, or more expensive brand of paint?
 
For a 10 or 20 foot paint job, maybe. Show quality paint is a lot more than that.

Some of the really high quality paints are pushing $1000 per gallon.

Material costs alone for an RV-10 at the paint shop I use in Alabama were published at $8750. This was in March of this year.

What builders paid even a couple of years ago for paint jobs has little relevance today.

Everything I paint is done with JetGlo. That’s the best you can get for your airplane. A gallon of white with hardener is about $500. For a -10 you’ll need to buy two kits plus a quart or two of each trim color needed. Those run from $100 to about $300 per quart depending on color. Budget about $500 for primer. Figure about $500 for consumables.
 
Everything I paint is done with JetGlo. That’s the best you can get for your airplane. A gallon of white with hardener is about $500. For a -10 you’ll need to buy two kits plus a quart or two of each trim color needed. Those run from $100 to about $300 per quart depending on color. Budget about $500 for primer. Figure about $500 for consumables.

My -10 was painted with Jetglo. After all the dust settled, the total material cost at the paint shop was right at $3K, which is very much inline with the information in Bandera's post.
 
Perhaps more colors, clearcoat, or more expensive brand of paint?

Yes, yes and yes.

There is a reason Jonathan is booked out until November 2026 right now. Planes painted at Evoke win more awards than those painted anywhere else. The attention to detail is second to none.

Not everyone sees the value in an Evoke Signature Series paint job and that's fine. I don't know anyone that has had their plane painted by Evoke and has regretted their decision.
 
Price sounds good if the quality of the finished product is good. My only problem is Imron has very low solvent resistance, MEK and a shop towel will let you wipe it off in a few minutes (my experience from 34 years in the coatings removal business). I would pay extra to get a full catalyzed urethane paint.

The only problem with Imron is that the activators used are isocyanates and not for the faint of heart to paint without a solid fresh air setup versus other inferior paints with lesser volatile compounds.

Imron is the bomb when it comes to durability and longevity compared to wall grip, akzo Nobel aerospace coatings and jetglo which is a cheaper option.

There isn’t one choice of option - there are several.

AF400 is the single stage version and used most often in aircraft. Af3500 is single stage for much higher performance aircraft due to it having anti sag components and this has a greater mix ratio of hardener. Af700 is base coat clear coat. On aircraft that sit outside, I prefer to not use base coat clear coat due too the eventual chalkiness appearance of clear coat fading. Better to use single stage so someone can come along with a rag of solvent and say how easy it is to peel Imron after a 20-30 year paint job begins to fade.

Polishers consistently complain how hard it is to buff Imron.

There is very healthy margin in the paint business.

I just picked up 3 cans of AF404 (Matterhorn white factory pack Imron) for my discount of $233 a gallon . An RV should take 3-4 gallons painted white, not I closing trim stripes. Hardener is similar pricing on a 3:1 mix ratio.

13580 corlar is the best sealer used from axalta for the application following acid etching and alodonkng, if that is your preferred method.

Stripping with Benco b14/b15 as a combination versus peroxide products that take 24 hours to peel is the way. About 300-400 in stripper.

Now - how much margin is there I. A $15-25k paint job? Enough to offend me to learn how to do it myself for many years.
 
…There is very healthy margin in the paint business…

Now - how much margin is there I. A $15-25k paint job? Enough to offend me to learn how to do it myself for many years.

Maybe that’s true of the paint suppliers, I have no idea.

I will tell you that my painter is not living large, despite having nearly 200 planes on his waiting list. For a $35k paint job on an RV-10, they will spend 200-300 hours just in body prep (figure $40/hour fully loaded personnel cost), $9k or more on materials and supplies and I would estimate several hundred more hours in the paint shop. Reassembly and many hours of detail work that is amazing.

They have three hangars that they use - one for body work, one is the paint shop and airplane storage plus one for final prep, assembly and delivery. So overhead is not inconsequential.

The finished products are works of art.

I suspect that their margins are very small and most of their profit comes from design work, etc. Probably not unlike a new car dealer who survives on the parts and service departments - not from new car sales.
 
Slight thread drift....

If the price seems high, I may try to borrow scales and do it my self. Apparently draining the fuel is the norm before re-weighing. I had hoped to simply top off the tanks and subtract out the 16 gallons per side. Others have suggested this method would lack necessary accuracy. I'm still debating this detail. The 32 gallon tank capacity is accurate to with a faction of a gallon. The density does vary significantly with temperature, but if I know the gas temp when the aircraft is weighed, I can compensate...

I don't think it matters much, for weight, whether you make the measurement at full or empty. OTOH, you need to be careful about CG measurements. My -10 sees the cg move toward the limits as I burn fuel; hence, to get the most accuracy, I would think you would want to make the "weight on all three wheels" measurements with tanks empty, so you don't have to wonder exactly what the tanks hold, nor exactly what the fuel moment arm is. To be honest, I haven't run the calculations with reasonable error assumptions, to see if there's any appreciable variation.
Many EAA local chapters have scales their members can borrow. Ask around.
 
The only problem with Imron is that the activators used are isocyanates and not for the faint of heart to paint without a solid fresh air setup versus other inferior paints with lesser volatile compounds.

Imron is the bomb when it comes to durability and longevity compared to wall grip, akzo Nobel aerospace coatings and jetglo which is a cheaper option.

There isn’t one choice of option - there are several.

AF400 is the single stage version and used most often in aircraft. Af3500 is single stage for much higher performance aircraft due to it having anti sag components and this has a greater mix ratio of hardener. Af700 is base coat clear coat. On aircraft that sit outside, I prefer to not use base coat clear coat due too the eventual chalkiness appearance of clear coat fading. Better to use single stage so someone can come along with a rag of solvent and say how easy it is to peel Imron after a 20-30 year paint job begins to fade.

Polishers consistently complain how hard it is to buff Imron.

There is very healthy margin in the paint business.

I just picked up 3 cans of AF404 (Matterhorn white factory pack Imron) for my discount of $233 a gallon . An RV should take 3-4 gallons painted white, not I closing trim stripes. Hardener is similar pricing on a 3:1 mix ratio.

13580 corlar is the best sealer used from axalta for the application following acid etching and alodonkng, if that is your preferred method.

Stripping with Benco b14/b15 as a combination versus peroxide products that take 24 hours to peel is the way. About 300-400 in stripper.

Now - how much margin is there I. A $15-25k paint job? Enough to offend me to learn how to do it myself for many years.

Aluma-Grip and JetGlo both have isocyanates.
 
I don't think it matters much, for weight, whether you make the measurement at full or empty. OTOH, you need to be careful about CG measurements. My -10 sees the cg move toward the limits as I burn fuel; hence, to get the most accuracy, I would think you would want to make the "weight on all three wheels" measurements with tanks empty, so you don't have to wonder exactly what the tanks hold, nor exactly what the fuel moment arm is. To be honest, I haven't run the calculations with reasonable error assumptions, to see if there's any appreciable variation.
Many EAA local chapters have scales their members can borrow. Ask around.
I can’t speak for an RV-10 but a basic paint job on an 7 or 8 is around 19 pounds plus or minus.
 
Aluma-Grip and JetGlo both have isocyanates.

Pretty much any solvent based polyurethane coating (bases excluded as they are typically not activated) has isocyanates. Most epoxy primers do as well. If it doesn't have Iso's, it is probably acrylic and you want to run away from that.

The poster mentioned that Iso's are votile. Iso's are not VOC's and they tend to be heavy, so they rapidly settle to the lower areas of the ambient air within a couple minutes. The smell after painting is all the VOC's that do not sink.
 
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