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What's the best course of action in the event of a ground loop?

I'd think that adding power, if that's an option, would "pull from the nose" and possibly yank the center of mass back behind the CG?
 
I think it keeps by restoring power to the tail.. people still ground on takeoff, so it kinda disproves the “pulling the nose straight” theory
 
Just what i think

I'd think that adding power, if that's an option, would "pull from the nose" and possibly yank the center of mass back behind the CG?

Unless the air is going straight thru the prop, a sudden application of power could introduce a yaw or pitch movement through the improperly understood p factor. This would really complicate recovery if unexpected.

As a thought experiment, if one is flying parallel to the ground with a cross wind over the nose, a sudden application of power would cause a large pitch change with a smaller yaw.( if horizontal wind, 70% pitch change, 30% yaw, in general). Could make the problems much worse.
 
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Fun aside...

I've done a few spins on four wheels. I can't say what they teach at the schools, but what seems to work for a spin from a straight line swerve is de-clutch, center the wheel, and stay off the brakes. A high percentage handled this way go either 180 or 360 and resume the original trajectory as soon as the tires stop sliding and start rolling again. It's Newton's first law.

I'd fight a groundloop with both rudder and brake until it was beyond saving, after which I'd just center everything, stay off the brakes, and let it go around. The spin physics are the same as the car, and given 180 rotation, it's now a tricycle gear with mass center ahead of the mains. It would track backwards better if the tailwheel wasn't in full swivel, but nothing can be done about it.

I'm pretty sure what we don't want is an extended sideways slide, in particular sideways off the runway into a soft surface.
 
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Sean Tucker

Sean Tucker has flown shows with three different Pitts S2 sized airplanes. NOT "big biplanes". The first started with a modified Pitts S2S. That was lost in a VFR into IMC fatal accident. The second was lost in an elevator control failure accident due to a faulty rod end bearing. Sean bailed out successfully. The third airplane is largely built from scratch but still Pitts inspired and Pitts S2 size. Sean has more or less retired from flying that airplane.
 
I do remember that pretty much every Pacer pilot I flew with had ground looped at least once which kept me pretty focused on landing straight,
Figs

My first taildragger was a Pacer (actually a Tri-Pacer that I converted). I flew it without any prior tailwheel experience or training. (Yes, not the recommended course of action, but that's the way we did things back in those days.) I never had any problem with the airplane, never came close to a groundloop, and found the airplane to be delightful to fly.

And the rudder on a Pacer isn't small by any means. Piper rudders are very effective (as compared to some other makes), and can keep you on the straight and narrow with no problem as long as your feet do what they are supposed to be doing.

Having said that, I do agree that a well-timed blast of power can help keep things going in the intended direction when they start to go astray. Power is your friend more often than not, but many pilots never think to use it in the situation being discussed here.
 
Anyone remember Sean Tucker or Kyle Franklin making 90 degree turns taxiing with the tail in the air??

Yep, Jimmy Franklin did it too, and a bunch of other airshow pilots.

But you don't have to be an airshow pilot to do it. Any Cub or similar airplane, and most aerobatic planes, can do this. I've done it several times in J3s and PA-18s when there were tailwheel issues that prevented normal taxi. A little power, some forward stick and some careful application of brakes is all it takes. Easy enough. Yes it takes a little practice to make it look good, but it's not magic.
 
Gear Alignment

One of the things that I have neglected to mention is gear alignment. The first Pitts S1S I flew had a misaligned gear. My homebuilt S1S had a perfectly aligned gear and I couldn't believe how much easier it was. The round gear RV's are only perfectly aligned only at one weight and body angle(for the taildraggers).
I have flown all the Piper taildraggers except the PA14 and the ag planes. They are all very easy compared to many homebuilt's except that the lighter ones need more respect for crosswinds. I have handled some nasty crosswinds in the Pa22/20. Better brakes also, especially the Cleveland's.
 
I've done a few spins on four wheels. I can't say what they teach at the schools, but what seems to work for a spin from a straight line swerve is de-clutch, center the wheel, and stay off the brakes. A high percentage handled this way go either 180 or 360 and resume the original trajectory as soon as the tires stop sliding and start rolling again. It's Newton's first law.
This is great when you have four wheels that are all locked pointing in one direction. Unfortunately our tailwheels (or nosewheels) are not, so you have two wheels that will happily roll when aligned with the direction of travel again, but a third that will continue in whatever direction it was going as it's castering. It'll be worse if the nose/tailwheel only turns a certain distance and then hits a stop... Once on the stop it's now locked at an angle to the mains and will want to turn.

I'd fight a groundloop with both rudder and brake until it was beyond saving, after which I'd just center everything, stay off the brakes, and let it go around. The spin physics are the same as the car, and given 180 rotation, it's now a tricycle gear with mass center ahead of the mains. It would track backwards better if the tailwheel wasn't in full swivel, but nothing can be done about it.
I'd modify this by saying you would want to try braking to *stop* the turn once you've rotated, for the same reasons as above. On a tailwheel you're right that once it's turned you've got a tricycle gear plane which should be inherently stable, but there's nothing there to stop the rotation that's brought it to that point. It'll overshoot and then (hopefully) return to center, possibly overshooting a few times as it settles.

I'm pretty sure what we don't want is an extended sideways slide, in particular sideways off the runway into a soft surface.
Agreed. I was saved by the large runway and taxiway I was operating on... on a smaller field I would definitely have been into the grass before I stopped moving.
 
Ground Loop

An overlooked method of dealing with the ground loop is planning and avoidance. When planning a cross country my first choice is an airport with multiple runways. If planning for a single runway airport try to find a nearby alternate with multiple runways.
Crosswinds are more difficult to deal with in the desert SW, especially the higher elevations.
Lets look at a couple examples. Silver City(SVC) has a single paved runway, but they have three dirt runways. If you're on final for the pavement and very concerned about the crosswind, go around and pick a dirt runway straight into the wind.
Wendover UT(ENV) has two paved runways but they don't give good options for a North South wind. If there is 40 knots out of the north land on the taxiway. Not the case at Wendover but many similar airports have taxiways that were once runways. Many airports in Kansas have closed runways converted to taxiways.
The last option is what I have done many times with the Pitts. Find a wide runway and land at a angle across the runway or if the wind is strong enough land straight across.
In West Texas I found that the forecasts for thunderstorms and wind are virtually never close to being accurate. Both can close your destination airport when you're on short final.
 
I see tons of info out there on how to avoid a ground loop, and of course avoiding it altogether is always best. But in the event you do go for a ride, what's the best thing to do? Let the controls go? Both brakes? Inside or Outside brake?
I take it you never flew a conventional gear plane (tailwheel)? And you expect to have an answer to a complex question? I suggest you read some books and get training (see link below).

I can't believe this thread is up to 62 (now 63 with my post). Other answers are all over the map.... The orignal question makes no sense as in ground loop past tense.
"What's the best course of action in the event of a ground loop?"

The question is how to prevent a ground loop. "Let go of the controls"... My friend please go do research, don't throw out your guess. There are 1000's of hours of training on line. There are online books or training material to answer your question. Bottom line get training to learn the answer. Other wise if you never fly a tailwheel it is all academic to you.

See my thread below... and get TW training. Otherwise stick with Tri-gear....

Tail wheels are Dangerous
https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=200527&highlight=tailwheel



Oh and if you damage your plane or hurt yourself in a ground loop or any accident or incident you may legally be obliged to report it.
http://www.aerolegalservices.com/Articles/Aircraft Accident-Incident Reporting.shtml
 
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One other thought…..the RV series of aircraft are very benign..forgiving…and well behaved tailwheel aircraft to fly. It doesn’t take a great deal of skill to fly them…give Vans a high five for the design. Jump into an S1C Pitts and you’ll soon find out that rudder pedals are not for keeping your socks apart. :)
 
Engage brain, pay attention, eliminate distractions, make this landing the most intense you’ll ever make and fly it all the way to the hanger.

I scratched wingtips by having head in...well.... a dark hole. Got it on the ground and relaxed....wrong move. I had trained for everything that went wrong. It was all me.

I’m with others here that each case probably requires different responses. We have power, braking, good rudder authority. Use what is necessary. If you have to think about it your already behind the aircraft.
 
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