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Old 02-05-2022, 08:47 PM
Steve Crewdog's Avatar
Steve Crewdog Steve Crewdog is offline
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: KBVS
Posts: 242
Default Wire lacing knots not holding

Hi all,

Spent today lacing a run of wires together, got to a section that involved a curve and the tyes would not hold, almost immediately came undone. Went back over some of the tyes on the straight portion and some held, some didn't. I went back to the curve I had been working, did a few more and paid very careful attention to what I was doing (in case I was tired and getting sloppy), and they still came undone. Wondering if I trimmed the ends too close, or I'm tyeing them too tight, or...???

I'm using Method 2 as shown on the Aeroelectric Connection website, with waxed lacing cord.

Anyone else ran into this?

SeaRey builder lurking to get ideas to make his plane better, and keep his build from stopping like a gear down landing in water.
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Old 02-05-2022, 09:01 PM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southwest
Posts: 2,328
Default Just me

I dont use this method.but if the square knot is loosening, make sure you are doing a square knot and not a granny knot. On a square knot, the two ends that cross should come from the same side of the loop. A granny lnot has the two ends that cross perpendicular and not from the same side of the loop. Lastly, you could try a second twist on the cross over.
John S

WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.

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Old 02-05-2022, 10:23 PM
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Steve Crewdog Steve Crewdog is offline
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: KBVS
Posts: 242

I think you may be right, I looked at the failed knots and the main parts were still intact, leading me to believe that one piece of line was "slipping through" the knot. I was also thinking that I was accidentally tying 2 half hitches, which would leave one piece of lacing cord accidentally becoming a standing line, and allowing it to slip through.
SeaRey builder lurking to get ideas to make his plane better, and keep his build from stopping like a gear down landing in water.
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Old 02-06-2022, 05:06 AM
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marchudson marchudson is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Texas
Posts: 211

Page 11-63 of AC43.13 has some good examples of tying wire bundles. I also had to place an extra loop after tying the square knot because some of the ties showed signs of loosening.

If you want additional knot information. The Ashely book of knots is the bible of knot tying.

We lived on a sailboat for a while and between that book and the live aboard community we learned a lot about tying knots.
Marc Hudson
RV-7 Sold
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Old 02-06-2022, 06:12 AM
bobnoffs bobnoffs is offline
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: n. wi
Posts: 939

it's been my experience that after securing something it takes 3 half hitches to make the knot slipproof. i don't even think about it anymore, just tie 3 half hitches.
Bob Noffs
n. wi.
dakota hawk/jab 3300 built and flying. sold 6/18.getting serious about the 12. in the hangar now as of 10/15/19
RV-12 kit as of 9/13
RV-12 airworthiness cert. 11/30/2021
first flight 7/25/2022
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Old 02-06-2022, 06:20 AM
Mike Buckler Mike Buckler is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chatham Ont.
Posts: 47

Easy video
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Old 02-06-2022, 06:54 AM
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agirard7a agirard7a is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Newport, RI
Posts: 771
Default Whiping

From my sailing background, i have found this technique very easy and secure.
Only requires a three or four wraps. Very quick and easy. Dental floss works great in a pinch!
Al Girard, Newport, RI

Last edited by agirard7a : 02-06-2022 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 02-06-2022, 07:33 AM
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N804RV N804RV is offline
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Mount Vernon, Wa
Posts: 920

I've never used "method 2" . I've always used "method" 1, even on the biggest wire bundles.

Also, what kind of lacing are you using? My favorite is the Nomex lacing that my former employer uses. But, it can be hard to find. If you're using lacing that doesn't cinch down and tends to want to 'spring' apart before you tie the square knot, try something different.

The wax lacing cord that Steinair sells is easy to make nice neat wire bundles. Because it is waxed, it will hold some tension while you're tying the knot, making for a nice tight bundle. However, you need to wear something to protect your fingers. I used to tape the 1st knuckles on my index fingers to prevent the waxed lacing from sawing into the skin.
Ken W.
Mount Vernon, WA
2022 VAF Supporter

Last edited by N804RV : 02-06-2022 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 02-06-2022, 08:17 AM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 5,354
Default Method 2

I use the second method. You can cut wire with it. Never comes loose, but does requie a "square knot". Practice on shoe laces. A square knot will lay flat as tied. A "Granny" will rotate 90 degrees after releasing. Right over left, Left over right or whatever helps you remember.
Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/01/2021, plus a little extra.
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I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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Old 02-06-2022, 08:33 AM
rmarshall234 rmarshall234 is offline
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 377

I've been using a Surgeon's knot like we do in the parachute rigging business along with waxed super tack nylon cord. Been working great for decades and I've never had a knot undue itself unless the waxed dried out or was subject to lots of abrasion. The "tail" should be trimmed to 1/4 inch.
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