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Oxygen System

Frankster13

Active Member
I'm looking for suggestions and feedback on portible oxygen systems for my RV-14A. Trying to figure out what system to buy (brand, mask type, bottle size, etc.). Any suggestions welcome.
 
I rolled my own. I used an E size 870 bottle. It mounts upright in the baggage area and secured to the cross brace behind that seats. I provides many hours of capacity for two people with oxymizer canulas. Instead of using the regulator to control flow, I got some inexpensive O2 regulators from *bay. Get the pediatric style that go from .1 to 2 lpm and use one per O2 user.

I have less than $100 in my setup.

Larry
 
Frank, are you still at LVK? I have an Aerox E size cylinder which is out of date, you’re welcome to borrow it for test-fitting this size, if you’d like. In the -10 it fits between the seats. Let me know, I can leave it in Dave’s hangar if you know the combo.
You said ‘mask’, but canulas are so much more comfortable to use. I have the Aerox ‘conserving’ canulas and they really do use less O2. Legally, they’re limited to 18,000’. If that’s an issue, get a mask too. They’re not that much extra.
Buy a pulse oxymeter, they’re now quite affordable.
My last refill at LVK was $60 I think. I’ve heard, but not verified, that a Pleasanton dive shop will do O2 refills for about $20, but I need to show up with an adaptor fitting. At one time there was a ‘group buy’ of a couple of large tanks for re-fills at LVK, but I don’t know of any presently.
 
Your question comes up often. I did tons of reasheach on the subject and desided that the best solution for me is a home-made system using a Medical Jumbo D tank, a Pediatric regulator, and some quick disconnects from McMaster-Car.
In several years of flying I have never needed to get it refilled while on a cross country. If you did, almost every town has a resporatory theropy store or a gass supply that will fill it for $20. You can also make an adaptor so the aviation guys can fill it. I have two bottles so when it gets low I can just swap them out and then go get it refilled. A home-made solution costs about $250, and a Jumbo D will last about 11 hours. That is a lot of flying. I dont see the point in getting a $1,200 system that conserves O2, and requires you to get it refilled at an aviation refiller for $50. That system probably lasts 20 hours, and you will never need that amount of endurance. There is ZERO differance in the O2 or the reliability. Anyone that tells you otherwise is refering to old information when there was a moisture differance between Medical and Aviation O2. Now they are the exact same.

Someone else gave a link to some good clamps. Here is the rest of what you will need. I mounted my quick connect fittings under the canopy side rail. They have an intagrated shut-off valve, so if only one is plugged in the other is closed off. If I have a passenger they just plug in to start flow. The O2 line pusses onto the barb, so when you get new canulas (you should replace them every few uses) you just cut the end off of the tubing, and push it onto the hose barb on the "plug".
I like the Pendant style Oxymizer canula because it will extend your 11 hours to maybe 14; however they are a little expensive ($20 VS $1.50). Standard canulas will work just fine.

You are also going to want to get a pulse-ox meter to measure your blood saturation. You can adjust you flow up and down to maintain 96%-98%

Regulator: https://www.amazon.com/Pediatric-Re...+barb,+0-3+LPM,+CGA+870&qid=1599588027&sr=8-1

Tubing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Salter-Lab...165494?hash=item3d8c7027b6:g:TKsAAOSwmgVc9nE3

Tank: https://www.amazon.com/Medical-Oxyg...ds=Jumbo+D+oxygen&qid=1599588688&s=hpc&sr=1-1

Quick-connects: https://www.mcmaster.com/5478K225/

Canulas: https://www.blowoutmedical.com/oxym...MIl5OK3Zfa6wIViIpaBR2wfAYZEAQYBCABEgKbW_D_BwE

Pulse-Ox meter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JBJ9BCR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
What I got and like:
* Pulse delivery means that the bottle lasts longer. The advantage is not cost, the big advantage is that the bottle lasts an entire trip. No fun to be ready to go high and be out of O2 and no way to refill the bottle.
* My bottle is fiberglass or some such. Pricey but lighter.
* Portable systems are much less costly to refill, even at the airport. You take it in and they do it, rather than they wheel all the tanks out to the airplane.

If your system uses batteries, like mine does, have spares. And I've heard that 9 volt batteries degrade over time, so check them and make sure that your unused batteries are up to par.

I've got an old Mountain High system, entirely portable, nothing built in. In the southeast, I use it for getting over summer cumulus to fly where the air is cool and smooth. No fun when ATC gives you an early descent.
 
Depends on how high you are..... Aerox have data tables.

AEROX and AITHRE gear is what you need.

https://www.aerox.com/portables-s/153.htm

https://aithreaviation.com/collections/all


AITHRE have an integrated Carbon Monoxide and O2 Tank/Pulse Ox monitoring system. Using the Aithre Shield EX3.0 it will integrate to your Skyview or G3X. Couple this with the Altus Meso tank monitor and the Illyrian pulse ox system you are protected all round.

Not big investments, not cheap and nasty either, but worth every cent. I use them all.
 
Actually let me help you out here,

A full shopping list of what I recommend for your 2 place RV.

AEROX 2 place with a C cylinder kit $730
https://www.aerox.com/complete-oxyg...eso-2-users-p/portable-setup-altus-meso-2.htm

Add to that a carry bag unless you want to hard mount it in the baggage area.

Buy the following from Aithre directly $130 each. At least for the PIC, but maybe get two.
https://aithreaviation.com/products/illyrian

Job done.

Now if you want the integrated CO gear, thats another $400.


If you are reading this from Australia, or New Zealand, its all combined in one place with complete kits depending on what you need. Or for anyone in the USA wanting to see what a full comprises, but then buy from AITHRE and AEROX.
https://www.candoitaustralia.com.au/collections/packages
 
Timely discussion.
I am adding some weight to the nose of my IAR823 (snails) and will have to ballast it out in the tail. Potentially 100lbs on the nose so I figured a steel O2 bottle in the tail might do

Good tips here.
 
I rolled my own. I used an E size 870 bottle. It mounts upright in the baggage area and secured to the cross brace behind that seats. I provides many hours of capacity for two people with oxymizer canulas. Instead of using the regulator to control flow, I got some inexpensive O2 regulators from *bay. Get the pediatric style that go from .1 to 2 lpm and use one per O2 user.

I have less than $100 in my setup.

Larry
A cheapskate after my own heart.... ha ha. Well done. Off the shelf complete 2 Plc O2 aviation system is over $500.
 
I know this post is a couple years old. I am looking to build an O2 system that I will be able to use in my RV when it is complete, but also in a certified aircraft while I building. Therefore trying to decide between building a portable system (cheaper) and buying a portable system. I have not been able to find anything that says I can’t use a homemade system in a certified aircraft for personal flights.

To be honest, I rarely fly above 12,500, but my wife feels better on long flights above 10,000 with some O2.
 
SNIP
To be honest, I rarely fly above 12,500, but my wife feels better on long flights above 10,000 with some O2.

I’m on oxygen starting at 8K’. For a long cross country even at 8K’ I feel tired the rest of the day without it.

I run the MH system with the AL-682 bottle: https://www.mhoxygen.com/product/aluminum-cylinders/

Buying a system from MH, the bottle comes with a very nice carrying case with straps. In the RV-10 the bottle got strapped to the tunnel top cover (the control valve just aft of the front seats), in the RV-8 the same bottle gets strapped into the forward baggage compartment. The ends of the straps go under existing screws, adding tinnerman washers as an extra step.

One bottle supports two people for a coast to coast trip. Six of us went in on a shared oxygen recharge station. Six big bottles from the local gas shop and getting the low one refilled is $40. In short my oxygen cost me pennies a flight.

Carl
 
And you get a free top off at Oshkosh every year.

I’m on oxygen starting at 8K’. For a long cross country even at 8K’ I feel tired the rest of the day without it.

I run the MH system with the AL-682 bottle: https://www.mhoxygen.com/product/aluminum-cylinders/

Buying a system from MH, the bottle comes with a very nice carrying case with straps. In the RV-10 the bottle got strapped to the tunnel top cover (the control valve just aft of the front seats), in the RV-8 the same bottle gets strapped into the forward baggage compartment. The ends of the straps go under existing screws, adding tinnerman washers as an extra step.

One bottle supports two people for a coast to coast trip. Six of us went in on a shared oxygen recharge station. Six big bottles from the local gas shop and getting the low one refilled is $40. In short my oxygen cost me pennies a flight.

Carl
 
The often overlooked but most important part of a good O2 system is an excellent quality, reliable pulse oximeter.
Used to be expensive and the good ones are still a little pricey but worth it. Don't fry your brain. If your oxygen saturations are low descend.

Tank too low. Leaky fittings. Bad fit on cannula or mask, etc. Like CO (carbon monoxide) hypoxia can be insidious.

You can save money by rolling your own O2 system but don't cheap out on the monitor for oxygen saturation. Listed above in some of the other posts are some good ones.......
 
I use aerox, I have their canulas and actual rebreather mask (with the bag and mic) I tested both finding canulas to work well for me personally up to 14k, then mask up to FL210. The RV8 would have taken much longer to go to FL250, if I could even make it! I have professional experience with using aviation oxygen at work while flying and training in the chamber, so I tested them to my personal symptoms of hypoxia and used a pulse oxymeter.

Canulas work for many many hours if you are using them at 12k or so, especially with a M cylinder. I ended up leasing 2 airgas aviators oxygen tanks and refill my own in my garage. It's not hard it's inexpensive and it's the actual gas. I realize welders oxygen and medical oxygen are probably the same thing, but in NC all those gases basically costed about the same in the huge air tanks they sell them in. I manage to make it through long distance trips without needing a refill until I get home. I think it costs me about $13 to refill a M size cylinder.
 
Garmin watch

The often overlooked but most important part of a good O2 system is an excellent quality, reliable pulse oximeter.
Used to be expensive and the good ones are still a little pricey but worth it. Don't fry your brain. If your oxygen saturations are low descend.

Tank too low. Leaky fittings. Bad fit on cannula or mask, etc. Like CO (carbon monoxide) hypoxia can be insidious.

You can save money by rolling your own O2 system but don't cheap out on the monitor for oxygen saturation. Listed above in some of the other posts are some good ones.......

Garmin D2 Air X10
I haven't flown with it yet, but use it every day and flew quite a few simulated trips in the car. In addition to virtually every data point needed to fly (no attitude), it has heart rate and O². GPS, Ground Speed, Altitude, Rate of Climb/Decent, HSI, Compass, Clocks, Timers. It even controls my music library on my phone.
Pretty amazing.
 
Lately, I have used a small Inogen concentrator. I even have a splitter and my wife and I keep 95% saturation at 14K
 
Built up my own

I went the "Build my own" route for O2. Picked up a "C" sized tank ($125), 870 valve on it. Then a pediatric regulator ($45), some soft feel cannulas (6 for $15) and I had a decent setup. Without any conserving parts in the system I'd get about 2.5 to 3 hours out of it in the low teens. Worked well and having low cost filling option I didnt mind. Its comes when your away from home and trying to fill a medical 870 valve at an airport. To do that I need to pick up a plumbing setup to covert. Not the end of the world, but not free either.

So I decided to upgrade and kept and eye out for a NH O2D2, found a like new 1st Gen system for $300 that came with 2 conserving cannulas and a bag of MH system goodies. I swapped the pediatric regulator for a O2 regulator that allowed me to set the output pressure to the 20ish PSI that the O2D2 wants. Haven't ran through an entire take yet, but the little I have used it has proven the O2D2 really does conserve on the O2 usage.

Only thing I would do different and will swap out at some point is going with the 540 vs the 870 valve. Slightly simpler to get a refill at a dive shop for very cheap when needed.
 
Lately, I have used a small Inogen concentrator. I even have a splitter and my wife and I keep 95% saturation at 14K

Same, works great, and runs forever on ship power. Very nice when flying over big rocks.

IMG_7641.jpg

I prefer photos without wings in them, but I know Dan57 loves them, so I try to ensure that I have a wing in every pic I take! :D
 
side question to those of you doing brew your own type set-ups...

How much energy do you put into cleaning and keeping the system clean? the installed piping, fittings, etc...

A long time ago I went through some training for technical SCUBA while training for my Trimix diver cert., I also trained to be certified as a mixed gas blender and an equipment repair tech. It was beaten into my head with a sledge hammer that anything that will see high concentrations of O2 needs to be CLEAN...especially de-greased...but generally Clean with a capital C...to avoid an explosion hazard.
I never really understood how real world realistic the concern is.

While I was doing all that, my instructor sold me some old surplus O2 tank, looked to be military, maybe a bail-out bottle. It was a steel cylinder wrapped with a continuous wire strand, very small diameter wire. I've forgotten the markings that were stenciled on it, but it looked military.
The hydro test shop stripped off the wire to my disgust, but it passed hydro, and I used it to set up a home brew portable system. Bout a regulator and canula set-up from Mountain High I think it was..... still have that system stored in the back of some closet, never used it. Probably no good now.

Anyway, I was curious about maintaining a system in an aircraft.
 
The only thing that really needs to be cleaned or degreased from a safety standpoint is the high pressure side, which in my home-brew setup is the end of the regulator that attaches directly to the bottle (and technically the inside of the regular guts, but I don't have access to that, and I don't oil it, for obvious reason). The rest is very low pressure O2, and passed out through the line quickly. If you keep things generally clean and put up when not in use, you shouldn't have to worry about it.

I have noticed that if you turn off the flow (for example prep for landing), but continue to wear the cannula (mine are Oxymizers), it builds up condensation in the line from your breath back flowing into the line, so I remove them from my head once the flow is off.

Otherwise, when I get home, I run some alcohol down the line, blow some fresh air through, and put them away for next use. The Oxymizer cannulas are about $20 apiece, so I reuse them until the line or pendant doesn't feel flexible anymore.
 
I know you did not ask me, but I use the Inogen G5.

I also use the G5 - works great. I bought it second-hand but it had never been used, and I saved a mint. I was watching the markets for a while before this one popped up. Powered by the built-in battery or plug it into an aux 12v power outlet.
 
Whatever you do for tank, I'm a big big fan of the mile high o2d2 system. I've flown for years in turbo singles a d they really make your o2 last. For me it wasn't about cost savings but convenience of not having to fill for a long time or on a trip.
 
I dont trust

s

While I was doing all that, my instructor sold me some old surplus O2 tank, looked to be military, maybe a bail-out bottle. It was a steel cylinder wrapped with a continuous wire strand, very small diameter wire. I've forgotten the markings that were stenciled on it, but it looked military.
The hydro test shop stripped off the wire to my disgust, but it passed hydro, and I used it to set up a home brew portable system. Bout a regulator and canula set-up from Mountain High I think it was..... still have that system stored in the back of some closet, never used it. Probably no good now.

Anyway, I was curious about maintaining a system in an aircraft.

I picked up one of those tanks surplus during my time at A&P school. My instructor said they were very dangerous and they were recalled/banned for aviation use and for oxygen use. He cautioned me that I could use it for air, but only very low pressure. I am surprised yours passed hydro. I am just passing along what I heard. YMMV.
 
Where you guys getting your Inogen G5 units and how much did you pay if I may ask?

I was going to go medical but I was denied by my doctor a script for it. The only way I could get a fill is if I go with welding oxygen. If I'm going to pay big bucks for a setup I mind as well go concentrator, especially if it works that good for 2 people at 14.
 
I had a G4 than the G5 came out I got that. It is awesome, never have to worry about refills, endurance. I got the bigger battery and I can run for 8hrs on setting number 2 I also carry the 12v cord to plug in the plane if needed. My pulse oximeter reads 93-94 at 13k feet.
I have bought mine and couple others to friends from Craigslist. All low hrs costing about $1200-$1500
 
I got mine for about $1500 on a French website which is like ebay: https://www.leboncoin.fr/ It was new, never used. I was keeping an eye out for a G5 for a few months before I found this one, so you might have to be patient.

I had a G4 than the G5 came out I got that. It is awesome, never have to worry about refills, endurance. I got the bigger battery and I can run for 8hrs on setting number 2 I also carry the 12v cord to plug in the plane if needed. My pulse oximeter reads 93-94 at 13k feet.
I have bought mine and couple others to friends from Craigslist. All low hrs costing about $1200-$1500

Thanks guys. Now I know what price range/ where to look.
 
I'm in an RV-6A and built a console in between the seats to hold my G4
It works just fine and 02 readings are good.
I got my G4 off Craigslist for $450.00 with very low hours. Even came with an extra large battery and cigarette adaptor, carrying bag and all. So, I don't even use the battery, just as a base.
Bought cannulas off Amazon and the rest is history as they say.
Need to be patient for a good deal though.
I wasn't even thinking of buying one, But, seen it and jumped on it.
Your luck will vary Art
 
Where are you mounting the Inogen in an RV-8

I just picked up a Inogen G5 and now have to figure out where to put it. Not a lot of room in the RV-8 where it can be reached in flight and still be out of the way. Any suggestions?
 
I just picked up a Inogen G5 and now have to figure out where to put it. Not a lot of room in the RV-8 where it can be reached in flight and still be out of the way. Any suggestions?

I have an RV9A and hang my Inogen G5 in the empty space behind my seat using the shoulder straps of the case. The strap goes around the top seat adjuster. The cannulas are fed through the gap between the seats and the unit is turned on before flight. I keep an eye on the performance of the G5 with the blue tooth app. I'll take a picture and post.

For the others, I bought the unit on Facebook for $1k.
 
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For the others, I bought the unit on Facebook for $1k.

I am very curious about how your unit performs. If it delivers oxygen sufficient to keep you alert at altitude, that's what matters. After a little digging, this is what I've found.

I spoke with an Inogen representative, who says they can't sell a new unit without a prescription because the oxygen becomes a controlled substance at the concentrations that their units delivery to. The representative also claims that they do not sell through facebook, and she was interested in the specifics of the site.

I have gone back and forth with a facebook page called "Portable G5 Inogen Oxygen Concentrator for Sale". They refuse any and all information about how they can sell their units so cheaply, variously claiming that the units are factory seconds, new in an unopened package, refusing to state what makes their units factory second, etc.
 
I have two G4's and bought one locally on craigslist and another on facebook marketplace. They were both from individuals, not from a company, and have had pretty good luck that way.
 
I am very curious about how your unit performs. If it delivers oxygen sufficient to keep you alert at altitude, that's what matters. After a little digging, this is what I've found.

I spoke with an Inogen representative, who says they can't sell a new unit without a prescription because the oxygen becomes a controlled substance at the concentrations that their units delivery to. The representative also claims that they do not sell through facebook, and she was interested in the specifics of the site.

I have gone back and forth with a facebook page called "Portable G5 Inogen Oxygen Concentrator for Sale". They refuse any and all information about how they can sell their units so cheaply, variously claiming that the units are factory seconds, new in an unopened package, refusing to state what makes their units factory second, etc.


I’ve gone as high as 16,500 with the unit on level 3 with blood sats around 94%.

If you buy new, I believe you need a prescription. I bought my unit second hand from an individual. If you search for Inogen G5 on Facebook, you’ll find people selling used concentrators.
 
I’ve gone as high as 16,500 with the unit on level 3 with blood sats around 94%.

If you buy new, I believe you need a prescription. I bought my unit second hand from an individual. If you search for Inogen G5 on Facebook, you’ll find people selling used concentrators.

Used my G5 just this morning - quick flight over the mountains to about 14k indicated, and checked my SpO2 a couple of times and it was around 97%. I think I was on 4, but forgot to look. I just turn it on by feel.

HB-YMM Matterhorn 20221003.png
 
Amp demand??

How many amps (12VDC) does the G5 draw? I am looking on the website and lots of sales/marketing materials. Light though - - at 5.2 lbs., lighter than my tank.
 
Mickey,
Where do you mount it in your RV-8?

Steve, I have not yet mounted it - I just leave it to the right where the passenger's knee would be. I've thought about bolting it to the seat back, but have not yet done that. If there were a way to get it to start when it gets power, I'd put it in the rear baggage compartment. I have heard that there is a bluetooth app, which might allow remote starting, but I have not found it.
 
How many amps (12VDC) does the G5 draw? I am looking on the website and lots of sales/marketing materials. Light though - - at 5.2 lbs., lighter than my tank.

Bill, I have not done a good analysis of the power used by the G5 at different settings, but looking at my recent flight in Savvy, I see about 5 amps at 12v. The battery pack is supposed to last longer than any single flight I'll make in my RV-8, but I like to keep it on ship power just in case.
 
Steve, I have not yet mounted it - I just leave it to the right where the passenger's knee would be. I've thought about bolting it to the seat back, but have not yet done that. If there were a way to get it to start when it gets power, I'd put it in the rear baggage compartment. I have heard that there is a bluetooth app, which might allow remote starting, but I have not found it.

The bluetooth app pretty much monitors the unit and updates the software. You can't turn on/off or adjust the unit via the app.

Mickey, you can find the app on the Apple app store. The app needs a code that comes with the G5 to work and since I bought second hand I didn't have one. I called Inogen customer service and the gave me one.
 
Will the G5 provide an adequate supply for two adults?
Probably need two of them

Lately, I have used a small Inogen concentrator. I even have a splitter and my wife and I keep 95% saturation at 14K

One comment above, I (updated) found the G5 yields 1.3 LPM of O2, so at the standard rate of 1 LPM/10K that is only enough (technically) for one user to 13,000.

But . . .I have to ask just how much of that in a regular cannula will get in the lungs. My digital unit only flows O2 when inhaling, so the rest of the time a standard system just flows O2 at the rate mentioned and is wasted when not inhaling. So maybe it is just fine for two people randomly inhaling and rarely simultaneously. Maybe the trained experts can shed some light on this from the actual physics of the process.
 
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Will the G5 provide an adequate supply for two adults?
Probably need two of them

An Oxymizer type cannula will almost cut the needed flow rate in half, since as someone mentioned, when not breathing in, the normal cannula is just wasting the O2 out the side of your nose, whereas the Oxymizer pendant is refilling for your next breath. I don’t usually fly higher than 13k, but 1.5lpm at 11.5 was plenty for me and my son (kept us above 93%). So maybe the G5 1.3lpm at 13k would _just_ be enough.

These systems are basically air blowers pumping air through a zeolite sieve, sequestering the N and letting the O2 go through, so I would imagine their flow rate is not linear to altitude, so higher means less air to work with, same as our props.
 
14000

Will the G5 provide an adequate supply for two adults?
Probably need two of them

I just asked this question of the inogenaviator.com (windblade) folks. Their answer was (1) person up to 18000 ft and (2) people to 14000 ft. I suspect the real answer is - it depends.
 
The Inogen G5 is a pulse demand system, not constant flow. It senses low pressure when you start to inhale and gives a shot of O2. If your respiration rate is slow it gives large doses. Faster breaths get smaller doses. Seems like very little waste. For 2 people it might be best to use oxymizer style cannula because the G5 will sense each breath and the timing of the doses will not be correct for both people unless they synchronize their breathing.
 
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