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SB 14-01-31; RV-6, 7, 8

It doesn't say for the 9 models, but I am reading this pretty close and will see if it is looks like it may apply.
 
nine's have a different HS.

I just inspected my tail group last month...didn't see anything, but wonder if I gave it a close enough look.
 
To do the mod looks painful but not horrible - mostly just the limited access for drilling out some of the rivets...
 
It would be good to know how many of these cracks have occurred out of the many RV6,7,8 flying. Can we report in this thread the results of inspections as they occur?
 
New SB

Wow. This SB is not a quick weekend afternoon fix, this seems to be a major deconstruction ,and then try to but it all back together again with very limited access to buck rivets. When I made my relieve notches in the front spar for the bend I made 100% sure that it was completly deburred and rounded at all corners to prevent cracks, just in this area. I am sure that my relieve notches are as smooth as it can be. Do I understand that this SB must be complied with even if there is no cracks, or is this a fix if a crack is detected. Maybe Alan from antisplat can produce a better way of doing this, like his fix for preventing cracks in the vertical stab front spar...
I can just see that to try and remove those rivets will leave a lot of folks with enlarged holes and a messed up HS that will be worse than before the fix.
 
From reading the SB, inspecting before further flight and then every annual seems fine. So if you don't have cracks and don't think you'll get them just doing that until a crack (possibly) shows up some year seems like a fine way to go...
 
Does anybody know of occurrences of this cracking i.e. who / what / why / when triggered this SB? I have one possible suspicion...
 
From reading the SB, inspecting before further flight and then every annual seems fine. So if you don't have cracks and don't think you'll get them just doing that until a crack (possibly) shows up some year seems like a fine way to go...

On page 2, Method of Compliance says:
If no cracks are found, no immediate action is necessary. Repeat this inspection at each subsequent annual condition inspection until such time that this service bulletin has been complied with in its entirety.

I read this as you can inspect as long as there are no cracks, but they do expect us to make the changes that are detailed regardless of whether cracks do form. I wouldn't assume that we aren't going to get cracks if we don't see them, though.
 
I find it strange that cracks in this area have never been reported here (at least that i can recall) on the most popula Vans specific forum in the world yet there apparently was enough evidence of cracks that the factory created an SB for them. This spar design spans decades and thousands of planes. Why now?

This is no minor SB, drilling out some of those rivets and then riveting them back without causing additional damage is going to be tough.

With many RV's being flown to the edge of the envelope on a routine basis, how many of them have seen cracks here?
 
On page 2, Method of Compliance says:
If no cracks are found, no immediate action is necessary. Repeat this inspection at each subsequent annual condition inspection until such time that this service bulletin has been complied with in its entirety.

I read this as you can inspect as long as there are no cracks, but they do expect us to make the changes that are detailed regardless of whether cracks do form. I wouldn't assume that we aren't going to get cracks if we don't see them, though.

No Cracks found No Action required until next Condition Inspection? Then Repeat Until such time Cracks are found or SB complied with without the development of cracks


Required Action:
Inspect for cracks as described. If cracks are present, stop drill cracks and install HS-00001 Doubler (RV-6,7) or HS-00003 Doubler (RV-8) and HS-00002 Rib Flange Angle (RV-6,7) or HS-00004 Rib Flange Angle (RV-8) to both sides of the aircraft before further flight.

Time of Compliance:
Inspect before further flight and at each annual condition inspection until such time that this service bulletin has been complied with in its entirety.


Method of Compliance:
Inspection: Remove the Empennage fairing. Carefully inspect for cracks emanating from the stress relief notch at the inboard end of the forward horizontal stabilizer spar flanges. (see Figure 1 and figure 3). Clean the area and remove any paint, overspray or primer that could hide a crack. Cracks may be very small and hard to detect.

If no cracks are detected, no immediate action is necessary. Repeat this inspection at each subsequent annual condition inspection until such time that this service bulletin has been complied with in its entirety.
If cracks are detected, or if the doublers are to be installed as preventative maintenance, comply with the following steps:
 
They way they wrote it definitely leaves it open to some interpretation. I read it as check for cracks at every annual unless you have completed the SB.

This SB is gonna be pretty interesting. How many end up being cracked? What are the high time guys going to find? How challenging is the fix really going to be?

I'm going to check mine today.
 
My F1 Rocket kit has a similar but a much longer reinforcement plate on the back side of the HS front spar and also a reinforcement on the back side of the VS spar. There is also one on the front side of the rear spar. When I built the tail I thought these were very good mods and I would incorporate them on my -6 when I get around to rebuilding the tail.
 
compliance?

Since I am a couple of months from bolting my HS on for the final time (and first flight), maybe I will wait until there are reports from the flying fleet before deciding to rip into it.

So what are other builders going to do with a HS built but hanging in the garage? This SB is some serious work. I don't mind but I don't want to damage a perfectly good HS.
 
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I do not see how you are going to buck those rivets without removing the skin, let alone drill out all those rivets without causing more damage. There are a lot of folks that did not build their plane, I can see this being a very expensive repair.
 
550hr / lots of aeros / 2005 RV-8 HS.

The "relief notches" are not there, nor called for in the Builders' Manual (RV-3 "in build" I see I have somewhat notched). Drawings on close examination do appear to show them...

No cracks seen by close visual inspection nor zooming in to photos.

I am slightly unsure as to the implications if there were cracks - the thin HS-702 in this area is strongly reinforced by the HS-810 angle?

I might suggest Vans will sit on the fence, and maybe so should we, over whether to incorporate the additional parts even if no cracks. A pattern of how many / high hour? suffer from the problem might make it clearer.

If my/Brad's suspicion (above) proves founded, I would think more information will be forthcoming in later reports...
 
It doesn't say for the 9 models, but I am reading this pretty close and will see if it is looks like it may apply.

The -9 (and -10 & -14) all have Hershey bar horizontal stabs with a flat, straight front spar profile, don't they? The 6/7/8 all have tapered HS with swept leading edges and angles bent into the front HS spar. The 4 has an HS very similar to the 6 so I wonder why it wasn't also included especially since 4s probably see more acro than the rest of the fleet.
 
So what are other builders going to do with a HS built but hanging in the garage? This SB is some serious work. I don't mind but I don't want to damage a perfectly good HS.

I'm going to make the changes in the SB. I'm at a good stopping point on the fuse that I can go and get the HS out of the attic and see what I have to do to it.
 
-8, 1580 hrs, 13+ yrs. Lots of moderate acro, never more than 4.5 gs. No cracks or other distress evident.

Would it be good to start a thread with **stats only** (no commentary) to cleanly capture anecdotal data?

Also, I would be curious to hear comments from experienced engineers or other manufacturing experts who have used cherry max/structural rivets and how they might be applicable here. Please, no conjecture unless you have actual experience/knowledge.
 
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Remove 4 ribs, HS 404 and HS 405, upper and lower angles. That involves drilling out 120 rivets. The skin is no problem, but removing those angles are not going to be easy without messing up a hole.
 
From my experience in the GA business, we should keep in mind that Service Bulletins are typically created by the OEM to correct an airframe issue due to numerous findings in the field or a limited number of either incidences or accidents.

As far as a cost basis this should only be the price of the materials since our aircraft are hobbies and the only labor we usually incur is blood, sweat, and tears during the building process followed by pride, joy, and giant smiles in the flight phase.

I say all of the above knowing that this SB is applicable to my plane and I may very well have to mod my horizontal, if needed.
 
I remember crossing this bridge (relief notches) last year. I (confess) I cheat as often as I can by looking at how other have done before me on their build sites. My limited searches have found better information for me from -7 builders so usually I'm cheating off -7 guys rather -8's.

These notches were one of the questions on my builders support list of questions due to the fact that the drawings show them and the actual parts don't have them.
I was told that the notches were a "-7 thing" and the -8's don't need them.
So build on I did, and here's what I now have (buried under a completed HS).

P1020430_zps25ca94a1.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

P1020460_zps7965beed.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

I will assure you that I debured the top of the forward spar much better than the 2nd. pic portrays.

I too am very interested in watching how this evolves. I am a believer that the Van's design is very good and well proven.
That being said, I'm curious if any changes will be made in production of these parts from here on out. Will the new SB doubler's be included with the kits, or will the spars be beefed up/different.

I would tend to lean towards a new beefed up spar (or whatever a improved kit included) to correct my HS if that's the way Van's corrects the issue with kits from now on, vs. a scab on doubler (personal pref).

Even taking it a step further, as I quickly glance over "The List" on Van's site, a new HS prices out at under $800. If this SB is going to be a huge problem, I wonder if Van's would be willing to sell the HS as a stand alone kit at a reduced price (cost?) to make our RV's safer, and the companies liability securer.

Just me thinking out loud over the www.

Standing by.....
Tom
 
New SB

I would like to read the SB as saying to inpect the area at regular intervals for cracks. If a crack is found a repair kit is availble from vansaircraft. But the way it is written it seems they want you to do the mod regardless if cracks are found or not. This to me is like fixing something that are not broken. I had a good look at mine today and some of the rivets I dont have a clue how I am supposed to drill out ,never mind trying to buck those afterwards.I feel sorry for the guys that has just completed their Horizontal stabs.
 
These notches were one of the questions on my builders support list of questions due to the fact that the drawings show them and the actual parts don't have them.
I was told that the notches were a "-7 thing" and the -8's don't need them.
Interesting! Would explain why the RV-8 manual does not call for the notches, but the plans show them since it is a common part to the RV-7.
 
Just inspected mine. 02/01/2014

Just less than 80 hrs TT
Completed in 2013
Very little acro, 3.5g max
No cracks found or other distress visible.
I have the notches.

Other factors that may or may not be relevant:
7A model
IO360
WW 200RV prop
Mostly paved runways
Always hangared
Electric trim
VOR cat wiskers mounted at the top of the VS
 
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I would like to read the SB as saying to inpect the area at regular intervals for cracks. If a crack is found a repair kit is availble from vansaircraft. But the way it is written it seems they want you to do the mod regardless if cracks are found or not. This to me is like fixing something that are not broken. I had a good look at mine today and some of the rivets I dont have a clue how I am supposed to drill out ,never mind trying to buck those afterwards.I feel sorry for the guys that has just completed their Horizontal stabs.

I admit to often interpreting things the way I would like to interpret them, but I think below is fairly straight forward:

Page 3 of 20

"If no cracks are detected, no immediate action is necessary. Repeat this inspection at each subsequent annual condition inspection until such time that this service bulletin has been complied with in its entirety. "
 
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Thread moved?

I see this thread is now under "Ongoing Maintenance Issues"". As this SB is applicable to flying aircraft ,and aircraft under constuction I think it would get more exposure under the general section as a sticky.

[ed. I moved it to 'Ongoing Maint.' because if effects multiple models. I also made it a 'sticky'. It will show up in all 'Today's Posts' and 'New Posts' queries continually as new replies come up. Also featuring it up top on VAF Monday. We'll get the word out! br,dr]
 
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Tried to order the SB 14-01-31.6/7 part online at Van's, as suggested at the end of the SB. Can't find the parts anywhere using Van's search engines (including "the list")

Just did my annual condition inspection (nothing notable here) but I'm going to pull it apart again to check closer. I may even "comply" if there aren't cracks but but one would think that Van's would have added to "parts" SB 14-01-31.6/7, as described so that builders could get a jump on it. Go figure. Any help appreciated.
 
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Heading over to the hangar now to have a look. I went over this area pretty closely when the discussions about the vertical stab were going on.
 
With the weather making it a no fly day…
Just finished complying with the visual inspection of SB, no defects noted.
A/C TT: 356.7 hrs
 
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Timely SB

Since I had to remove my empennage surfaces to move my RV-7 from Minnesota to Georgia (arrives today or tomorrow via Partain Transport), I am at an ideal point to comply with this SB before I re-assemble the empennage. I'm not looking forward to it, but I will feel better when it is done. I've had enough practice drilling out rivets, so I am not too worried about that:rolleyes:
 
Valkyrie SB 14-01-31 Inspection

Even though it was about 25 degrees this morning, I grabbed the drill driver and pulled the empennage fairing off our RV-8 this morning ? took about three minutes. A quick look with the inspection mirror and camera shows that the Valkyrie doesn?t have the relief notches ?.and no cracks either! I had the pictures in the camera and the fairing back on before Click and Clack got to the answer to last week?s puzzler ? total time, about ten minutes.

Right Side:
P1000831.JPG


Left Side (That vertical line is a hair scar in the paint ? not a crack):
P1000832.JPG


Of course, I had the fairing off last week when I signed off the Condition Inspection ? but did I really look at that spot with a mirror? Would I have noticed it? Better safe than sorry.

1702.5 hours TT
Lots of Acro!
Paul
 
Cracked

Crack found in LH upper corner about 1/4" long. Just the faintest line looking at with just eyeballs, with a magnifier it is clearly visible.

I'm not a big aerobatic guy (some but not a lot) and my stuff went together with excellent workmanship (the edges are smooth with a nice radius ) so I didn't expect to find this.

IMG_5031.JPG
 
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Just checked mine and it's looking great, no cracks.
370 hours TT
I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it though and not just annually.
 
A quick look with the inspection mirror and camera shows that the Valkyrie doesn?t have the relief notches ?.and no cracks either!

My 8 HS fwd spar did not have any relief notches either, and the center bend was pre-formed. Are the notches pre-punched in newer kits, or is the builder supposed to add them? There is no mention in the HS instructions, nor call-out in the drawings. Close inspection of the drawing does show something there, but it is not detailed or noted.

Now I have to go drag out the old 6 drawings.
 
Couple of comments...

I know it is sometimes difficult, but I suggest that no one read other ideas into the SB than what is actually there.

Some have said it is unclear what we should do, or whether we should install the mod., even if no cracks are found.
The SB says, "If no cracks are detected, no immediate action is necessary. Repeat this inspection at each subsequent annual condition inspection until such time that this service bulletin has been complied with in its entirety."

It is actually quite specific.
Inspect.
If you find no problem. inspect at next condition inspection. If you go 10 years and never find a crack, fine. Keep inspecting and do nothing else until you do. If at some point you choose to install the mod anyway, then the inspection requirement, per the SB no longer applies (though it is of course still good practice to look over all structure carefully during a condition inspection).

All indicators are that this is a slow developing problem and likely wont be an issue (the reason for the once a year inspection interval) on any RV that hasn't accumulated at least quite a few hundred hours. But because of many unknowns, it apply to all aircraft, regardless of flight time. I can't be more specific than that because there are so many different possible factors (Workmanship/finish quality, how the airplane is flown, etc.). It also helps explain, considering the amount of the fleet that is effected, how it could go undetected this long (even with many RV's being inspected by professionals, my self included). It is not easy to detect, particularly in the early development stages.

Keep in mind that the SB text says "Carefully inspect for cracks emanating from the stress relief notch at the inboard end of the forward horizontal stabilizer spar flanges." That means all 4 corners (top and bottom spar flanges).

Lastly, I know it is easy to begin imagining the connection between this and a recent accident with the cause yet to be identified. This issue was detected during a condition inspection of the company demonstrator RV-7A. It is much higher time than most RV's in service. After that discovery, other occurrences were noted when doing inspections of multiple airplanes...it is unknown how many will actually have or develop the problem, but since it was found in more than one... a design changed was developed and a SB was issued.

Having said that, you will have to just accept my word that the timing is coincidence, and that at this point, there is no indication (based on what I currently know, but that could always change) that a specific accident resulted from anything related to this SB. That is not meant as an official statement... the NTSB will report their official findings when ready.
Because of a non-disclosure agreement regarding the investigation, that is all I can and will say on that subject.

Bottom line, if there was even the smallest thought that this could be a serious safety issue, the SB would have been issued with a much more conservative inspection interval.

BTW, this SB procedure has been tested and completed a couple times before release. As written, it is very doable if all recommended tools are acquired and teh specifc procedures are followed. As emphasized, it does require extra care removing some of the rivets. Referencing the latest tips and procedures in the most recent Rev. of Section 5 is highly recommended.
 
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I have a -4 so this doesn't apply, but since I didn't build it will inspect just to learn more about it.

I do have one question concerning the SB:

Method of Compliance:
Inspection: Remove the Empennage fairing. Carefully inspect for cracks emanating from the stress relief notch at the inboard end of the forward horizontal stabilizer spar flanges. (see Figure 1 and figure 3). Clean the area and remove any paint, overspray or primer that could hide a crack. Cracks may be very small and hard to detect.

Doesn't this mean if no cracks are found and it has primer or paint, then you have to remove said primer or paint and inspect again? If you find the crack before removing the primer/ paint you obviously have the work to do. Or possibly when one purchases a plane in the future, if there is a notch, and no doubler, and primer/paint is there the SB has never been complied with?

I don't know, just one way of interpreting it.
Mark
 
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Hi Scott

Thanks for the insight you have provided. Within the limitations of what you can say:
  1. Has this been observed in any RV-8s?
  2. How can one inspect 'Carefully inspect for cracks emanating from the stress relief notch at the inboard end of the forward horizontal stabilizer spar flanges' when the RV-8 does not have such notches?
It can be read a number of ways - the RV-8 design is most at risk since the notches were (unintentionally?) omitted? Or the RV-8 has just been lumped in since it is a "similar" design?

Thanks in advance...
 
I have a -4 so this doesn't apply, but since I didn't build it will inspect just to learn more about it.

I do have one question concerning the SB:

Method of Compliance:
Inspection: Remove the Empennage fairing. Carefully inspect for cracks emanating from the stress relief notch at the inboard end of the forward horizontal stabilizer spar flanges. (see Figure 1 and figure 3). Clean the area and remove any paint, overspray or primer that could hide a crack. Cracks may be very small and hard to detect.

Doesn't this mean if no cracks are found and it has primer or paint, then you have to remove said primer or paint and inspect again? If you find the crack before removing the primer/ paint you obviously have the work to do. Or possibly when one purchases a plane in the future, if there is a notch, and no doubler, and primer/paint is there the SB has never been complied with?

I don't know, just one way of interpreting it.
Mark

The surface condition in that area could vary widely , from no primer or paint at all; to such a heavy buildup that it would be impossible for anyone to detect a crack.
It is a general statement expecting the inspector to use judgement.
If someone has no experience with detecting cracks in aircraft structure, it might be a good idea to ask someone else with experience to take a look at it.
 
Inspected my RV8a this morning before putting 2.2 hours to fly up Maine to land on a lake. After cleaning any primer and using 20x magnification I found no indications of any cracks. My RV does not have a relief notch in the inspection area.

I will re-investigate during the May annual.

~345 hours since initial flight in 2009
O-360-A1A
Sensenich Fixed Pitch Prop
Gentlemen's Aerobatics
 
Heading over to the hangar now to have a look. I went over this area pretty closely when the discussions about the vertical stab were going on.

RV-7A
O-360-A1A
3 Blade Catto
Landoll Harmonic Balancer
Based on grass field
S/N 70362
Flying since 2009
400 TT

No cracks but ordering 5 SB kits for the 7's and 8's at my field (3EV). Going to do mine as a part of April's EAA Chapter 21 meeting.
 
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Hi Scott

Thanks for the insight you have provided. Within the limitations of what you can say:
  1. Has this been observed in any RV-8s?
  2. How can one inspect 'Carefully inspect for cracks emanating from the stress relief notch at the inboard end of the forward horizontal stabilizer spar flanges' when the RV-8 does not have such notches?
It can be read a number of ways - the RV-8 design is most at risk since the notches were (unintentionally?) omitted? Or the RV-8 has just been lumped in since it is a "similar" design?

Thanks in advance...

Question 1 - Yes
Question 2 - If a crack exists, it will likely emanate from the relief notch (as depicted in the SB photo) or the corner made at the point where the end of the spar flange interfaces with the spar web (where the relief notch would be if there was one), so this is where you should focus your attention (top and bottom, both sides).

I don't think the RV-8 is anymore prone to have cracks, but until there is reports, after a lot more of the fleet inspected, we wont know for sure.
 
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Not actually complied with

With the weather making it a no fly day?
Just finished complying with the SB, no defects noted.
A/C TT: 356.7 hrs

Annual inspection was completed, SB was was not complied with. Unless you manufactured the parts and installed them. Just a clarification.
 
Annual inspection was completed, SB was was not complied with. Unless you manufactured the parts and installed them. Just a clarification.

I don't think that is a correct statement.
The SB says inspect, and if cracks are found, install the doubler parts.
If an inspection is done, and no cracks are found, The SB says reinspect at the next condition inspection. So the SB has been complied with until the next required condition inspection comes due. In the industry, this is referred to as a recurring inspection.
 
Start a polling thread?

An RV-6 which I built in 2000 and currently has 1200 hours on it was inspected today and found to have cracks on both sides as depicted in the service bulletin.
I agree that we should start a polling thread which will indicate:

Type aircraft
Hours flown
Cracks yes/no
One side/both sides

Others might think of some other info. Doug?

I doubt anyone really looked closely in these areas prior, so there's no telling if the cracks occurred at 1199 hours or earlier.

Vic
 
Not all have easy access for an inspection

Van recommends a removable empenage fairings for easy inspection. Last summer I saw an RV-6 tied down in Middleton, WI which had the fairing glassed in place. My immediate reaction was that this is not good as the area should be inspected annually. Talking to the locals it appears the aircraft was not built by the current owner. I did not get a chance to meet the owner and discuss this issue but I hope he checks VAF or Van's web site and sees this new SB. I think we owe it to the our community to discuss this SB with new RV aquantances, especially those who did not build and/or are not regularly on VAF.
 
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