EMP 07-09 step 2

Looking at the gotcha, WIKI, and plans, step 2 of 07-09, it would seem to start adhesive on the "right" skin R-00901-R-1 and trailing edge wedge R-00916-1, as figure 1 shows. The plans call for left skin R-00901-L-1, but then have you bend the "left" skin back in step 3. Is this a typo that's not covered?

IIRC, I didn't roll the skins back at all. It was tight, but I seem to recall being able to fit a rivet puller in between the skins and pulling the rivets with everything in place.

You could do a dry run to prove this theory for yourself. You'll want to Cleco at least one of the forward 2 holes, and see if it will work for you. The aft rivets were a bit tricky as there is little room and the handles barely stick out enough to grab / squeeze them, but it did work.

tyconnell said:

IIRC, I didn't roll the skins back at all. It was tight, but I seem to recall being able to fit a rivet puller in between the skins and pulling the rivets with everything in place.

You could do a dry run to prove this theory for yourself. You'll want to Cleco at least one of the forward 2 holes, and see if it will work for you. The aft rivets were a bit tricky as there is little room and the handles barely stick out enough to grab / squeeze them, but it did work.

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Thanks Ty, I agree that getting the pulled rivets isn't as extreme of an operation as the figure might suggest, but before I put adhesive down (or take the double sided paper off in my case, as I'm using the 3M tape) on the TE wedge, I want to do the correct side.

It might not matter as I think about it more, as long as I don't do both sides and fully set adhesive until ready for riveting on page 07-12.

Thoughts?

The way I read it, and I haven't gotten to the part yet, that sentence and the rest in step 2 are more like notes for steps 3 and 4. The wedge is already adhered to the right skin in step 1, so now you have to adhere the wedge to the left skin, in stages as you blind rivet.

ah pull paper off from the bottom as work up the rudder

gotyoke said:

The way I read it, and I haven't gotten to the part yet, that sentence and the rest in step 2 are more like notes for steps 3 and 4. The wedge is already adhered to the right skin in step 1, so now you have to adhere the wedge to the left skin, in stages as you blind rivet.

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Eric, thanks. That makes more sense, pull off paper from the bottom as needed with the pull rivets set and cleco. Though still have to mess with it later to get some bottom rivets in, so I'm thinking to wait on the left side paper until page 07-12. I asked Van's as well, to get their thoughts. I'll post back when I get a reply.

FYI I am doing the aluminum angle and clamp method, so have to go get some at Lowes or something, so I can match drill the angle and be able to get both sides nice and tight and straight. Then do some larger holes every 5 and 10 on the angle pieces to get my squeezer flats in to partial set while all clamped together and straight. Then come back with the Cleveland Tool aex edge flats to final set flush.

This is how I did mine. As you can see, I used proseal. Might as well get used to it now. Don’t use the rudder trailing edge to match drill your angle from Lowe’s. It’ll bugger up your rudder t.e. holes. Use a scrap piece of t.e. or some other means. You can drill the holes a bit larger to allow for any discrepancies. Think I went to 37. As long as the clecos can grab. One advantage of proseal is you can peel back the skin as required. I did solid rivets in that area so it is necessary to peel back. It you’re using pulled then it may be a non issue. BTW, that IS a typo, that has not been revised in quite a few years. I did the t.e. rivets as per sect 5 with the final set being done with a mushroom set. Does a nice job and flattens out any pillowing. If you have access to a piece of angle iron, it makes for an excellent back riveting base for this, and future control surfaces. Bolted mine (3X3X1/4”) to edge of bench. When capturing the left skin with clecos, leave 5-6 holes open between the captured cleco and the one coming up through the right skin.
Good luck.

One thing I did, that worked out well, is fit the frp tip when everything was clecoed together. Drilled the tip, #40 then #30. Page 12-05. This allowed me to dimple all those holes with the cframe before final assembly. I’ve found that cframe dimples turn out better than squeezed. Cs4 rivets are 120* so ensure you use the right set.

Here's how I did mine without an assistant using pro seal. Set rivets with the Cleaveland rudder squeezer set after the pro seal dried.

lipper03 said:

Thanks Ty, I agree that getting the pulled rivets isn't as extreme of an operation as the figure might suggest, but before I put adhesive down (or take the double sided paper off in my case, as I'm using the 3M tape) on the TE wedge, I want to do the correct side.

It might not matter as I think about it more, as long as I don't do both sides and fully set adhesive until ready for riveting on page 07-12.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

I can't think of a reason why it would matter. Again, thinking back, I think I adhered it in place on the right side with the 3M tape, and then adhered the tape to the left side skin, but left the backing on the side facing the trailing edge on that side until riveting later. Cleco the TE in place, and ensure everything is correct - left stiffeners above the right ones, shear clips on top of both.

No to dificult

Just completed mine. 3m tape on one side, rolled back, hand and pneumatic squeezer... Tight but very doable. Be sure you get the brackets on the proper side. I crossed two of mine, somehow, and had to drill out. Pull rivets drill out pretty easily.

mc607 said:

This is how I did mine. As you can see, I used proseal. Might as well get used to it now. Don’t use the rudder trailing edge to match drill your angle from Lowe’s. It’ll bugger up your rudder t.e. holes. Use a scrap piece of t.e. or some other means. You can drill the holes a bit larger to allow for any discrepancies. Think I went to 37. As long as the clecos can grab. One advantage of proseal is you can peel back the skin as required. I did solid rivets in that area so it is necessary to peel back. It you’re using pulled then it may be a non issue. BTW, that IS a typo, that has not been revised in quite a few years. I did the t.e. rivets as per sect 5 with the final set being done with a mushroom set. Does a nice job and flattens out any pillowing. If you have access to a piece of angle iron, it makes for an excellent back riveting base for this, and future control surfaces. Bolted mine (3X3X1/4”) to edge of bench. When capturing the left skin with clecos, leave 5-6 holes open between the captured cleco and the one coming up through the right skin.
Good luck.
View attachment 23035

View attachment 23036

View attachment 23037

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Thanks, I’m going to hand spin the starter holes, so that I don’t mess up the te. Then go back and match drill the other angle piece. Good pointer though, I had to think about that more.

GK14 said:

Here's how I did mine without an assistant using pro seal. Set rivets with the Cleaveland rudder squeezer set after the pro seal dried.

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So you didn’t do a partial squeeze, then the edge squeeze? On my practice kits I went straight to the edge squeeze and they seemed fine, but with only a few inches I didn’t know if more would create a bow.

PatMac said:

Just completed mine. 3m tape on one side, rolled back, hand and pneumatic squeezer... Tight but very doable. Be sure you get the brackets on the proper side. I crossed two of mine, somehow, and had to drill out. Pull rivets drill out pretty easily.

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Yep, what I’m thinking, just seal one side do the rest and then seal and clamp before riveting te.

Vans response

Vans said basically can change order of operations to make it work. So can do left or right first, can zipper it up and remove backing as you go, or do it at the end before riveting trailing edge. Thanks Vans!

“The engineering intent was for the use of adhesive (whether ProSeal or 3M tape) on both sides of the wedge.
The RV-10 and the RV-14 share some similar structures.
The RV-10 utilized ProSeal.
To make the building process easier the RV-14 utilizes double sided tape.
Easier may not be better. It depends on how you define better!
Either product is acceptable.
You can change the order of assembly as needed to have adhesive on both sides of the wedge.” Kevin@Vans

Rudder Trailing Edge "set up"

As mentioned earlier, setting up the angle and clamp method. I bought two 1"x1"x1/8"x8' angles from Lowes, cut to length (about 4' 3" or so). At first was hand rotating the bit at each hole location to the TE skin (so I didn't risk messing up the skin), but found that center punching was good as well. Then took the skin off and drilled the punched locations. Matched up well after drilling (did a #41 bit, then #40 reamer, only one hole I had to drill again). The pictures are the test fit with about 2/3 of the cleco's in. Everything looks good, doesn't seem in a bind anywhere, so hopefully it will work.

I'll match drill the other angle to put on other side as well when curing. Maybe overkill to do angle on both sides though. And still have to do larger holes for squeezing, but I figured I'd do that after adhesive cure and just before rivets.

Comments are welcome on the set up and method before I start adhesive and rivets!

Side note, I could tell that the Lowes piece wasn't aircraft grade with the non rounded inner corner and it did a lot more chipping during drilling, so must be a bit more brittle. Still straight and useful for this job though. Things you learn as building!

lipper03 said:

So you didn’t do a partial squeeze, then the edge squeeze? On my practice kits I went straight to the edge squeeze and they seemed fine, but with only a few inches I didn’t know if more would create a bow.

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Brian, yes I used the squeezer to partially set all of the rivets first then went back and fully set them (think its sec 5.8 that describes the TE). Turned out fine using the squeezer.

GK14 said:

Brian, yes I used the squeezer to partially set all of the rivets first then went back and fully set them (think its sec 5.8 that describes the TE). Turned out fine using the squeezer.

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Thanks, I'll do that per the plans then. Love the feedback!