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Aeroshell 100, 120 or 15w-50?

bkervaski

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Aeroshell 100, 120 or 15w-50/w100 plus?

At 50 hours on a new IO-390, about to do an oil change to Aeroshell 100 (from 80).

Here in Alabama most of the summer is 85-100 degrees.

Right now I'm only burning about 1/4qt of 80 every 5 hours.

Based on this should my 100 hour be 15w-50, w100 Plus, or should I stick with the mineral oil?
 
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Aeroshell 100

w100 Plus. An AD mineral oil with the Lycoming additive and no viscosity index improvers. All you need in temperatures like that.
 
w100 Plus. An AD mineral oil with the Lycoming additive and no viscosity index improvers. All you need in temperatures like that.
I'm in North Georgia. Our temps are a little bit cooler. Summers range up to the 90's. Winters usually in the 30's to 40's. Do you also recommend AeroShell 100W Plus for these temperatures? I'm flying a 9 with a Barret O-360.
Thanks
 
I'm in North Georgia. Our temps are a little bit cooler. Summers range up to the 90's. Winters usually in the 30's to 40's. Do you also recommend AeroShell 100W Plus for these temperatures? I'm flying a 9 with a Barret O-360.
Thanks

Don't recommend 50 weight oil (aviation 100) at 30*. Your lycoming operating manual will give min/max temp ranges for different weight oils, but I would never use 50 weight oil at those lower temps. I live in the midwest and use 20W50 all year. The Philips 20W50 is a mineral oil, with viscosity modifiers.

Larry
 
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This is one of those "primer questions", but....

I switched to 15-50 Aeroshell about 500 hours ago, when I realized it was partially synthetic, no small advantage. And it already has the Lyc additive, although I'm not sure it matters in a roller cam engine.

A straight weight oil and a multigrade have the same viscosity when hot, or to be precise, when both are at some stated operating temperature. A straight weight has no lubrication advantage when hot. The multigrade pumps well in cold starts, and allows 2700 RPM at a little over 100F oil temp without triggering a high oil pressure alarm, in my case set at 100 PSI.
 
Time to switch to an AD oil per my conversations with Lycoming. They can't suggest one vs. another brand officially.

This is from Lycoming SI 1014M

When changing from straight mineral oil to ashless dispersant oil, the following precautionary steps
should be taken:
1. Do not add ashless dispersant oil to straight mineral oil. Drain the straight mineral oil from the
engine and fill with ashless dispersant oil.
2. Do not operate the engine longer than five hours before the first oil change.
3. Check all oil filters and screens for evidence of sludge or plugging. Change oil every ten hours if
sludge conditions are evident. Repeat 10 hour checks until clean screen is noted, then change oil at
recommended time intervals.
 
So that's concerning. At 50 hours should I go ahead and switch to w100 plus instead of the 100 straight mineral oil to avoid any build up that a later switch to w100 plus may dislodge?
 
AD oil is important for holding debris in suspension. Straight mineral oil will hold MUCH less debris and once saturated, all additional debris will settle out as sludge. Lyc's put a LOT of debris in the oil and it is the reason for such frequent oil chnages. You need to switch to AD as soon as breakin is done. Sludge is the cost of hanging on longer than necessary, thinking if a little is good more is better for your break in process.

I follow ECIs guideline and breakin with Philips 20W50. It has no additives other than the AD package and viscosity modifiers. It is mostly the anti-friction modifiers that will interfere with your ring seating and lifter break in and the philips have none.

Larry
 
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My Recommendation

My recommendation, for what it is worth, is to run straight weight 100plus during the summer months and multiweight 5w15 during the winter months. Easy to start in winter and good protection for the summer. Also, I use camguard on every oil change. I can't help but pick up a can everytime i stop by spruce.

If you are open to saving some money and willing to try something different, instead of multiweight aeroshell during the winter, go with non-synthetic Rotella 15W40 which does a very fine job. This diesel oil works fine in our old flat tappet lycomings and the non-synthetic will do a good job suspending the lead as well as having an excellent detergent package for keeping the inside of engine clean.
 
So that's concerning. At 50 hours should I go ahead and switch to w100 plus instead of the 100 straight mineral oil to avoid any build up that a later switch to w100 plus may dislodge?

Yes, this was right from Jeff (Mr. Thunderbolt) at Lycoming to switch to AD oil as soon as break in is completed.
 
Ever looked up the kinematic viscosity values for Aeroshell W100 Plus and Aeroshell 15W-50?

At 40C (104F), they are 200 and 140, the multigrade being less of course. Being less, it pumps easily. Among other little details, it means the oil filter bypass is less likely to be opening.

At 100C (212F), they are 20.2 and 19.6...no practical difference.

So, yes, the multigrade is much superior in the cold, with no compromise when hot. 100W offers no additional protection in the summer.

https://www.shell.com/business-cust...258b1157216fa806075c6/aeroshell-book-3peo.pdf

Look at Viscosity Index too. 15W-50's higher VI simply means it is less thick when cold and less thin when hot.

Lycoming says 20W50 or 15W50 are "all temperature". There is no reason to switch back and forth between straight and multigrade.
 
Ever looked up the kinematic viscosity values for Aeroshell W100 Plus and Aeroshell 15W-50?

At 40C (104F), they are 200 and 140, the multigrade being less of course. Being less, it pumps easily. Among other little details, it means the oil filter bypass is less likely to be opening.

At 100C (212F), they are 20.2 and 19.6...no practical difference.

So, yes, the multigrade is much superior in the cold, with no compromise when hot. 100W offers no additional protection in the summer.

https://www.shell.com/business-cust...258b1157216fa806075c6/aeroshell-book-3peo.pdf

Look at Viscosity Index too. 15W-50's higher VI simply means it is less thick when cold and less thin when hot.

Lycoming says 20W50 or 15W50 are "all temperature". There is no reason to switch back and forth between straight and multigrade.

I agree with what Dan said.

Just like primers, you will get as many different opinions on oil as there are oils. Sticking with what the engine manufacturer or builder recommends and you will not go wrong.

Once oil consumption stabilizes after overhaul / break-in, any of the AD oils that are recommended by the engine people will be good.

I always use the multi-weight oils for the reasons Dan posted. I like and have good luck with Phillips 20W-50M for break-in.
 
.....
Based on this should my 100 hour be 15w-50, w100 Plus, or should I stick with the mineral oil?

Many years ago I asked an Aeroshell rep this same question. He said that for the Texas climate the 100W+ was fine year-round and also the least expensive.

Unless you do a lot of cross-country flying to the North during winter, I would think the advice would apply to your situation as well. 750 hours later, engine runs great (knock on wood), takes about 1 qt every 12-14 hours. (O-360 A1A).

My 2 cents.

Chris
 
I've opened up a lot of engines that use Aeroshell.

I've opened up a lot of engines that use X/C.

If someone gave me a case of Aeroshell I would give it away.

If someone gave me a case of Camguard, I would sell it on ebay.
 
EAA Mike Busch

Mike Busch is the EAA oil guru. He has several webinar videos as it relates to engine overhaul, breakin and operation as it relates to engine wear, types of oil to use and what causes the most wear in our type piston engines. You will be surprised when you watch and take advantage of his extensive research.
 
I've opened up a lot of engines that use Aeroshell.

I've opened up a lot of engines that use X/C.

If someone gave me a case of Aeroshell I would give it away.

If someone gave me a case of Camguard, I would sell it on ebay.

Well .. so much for my order of w100 and Camguard from Spruce .. :eek:
 
Well .. so much for my order of w100 and Camguard from Spruce .. :eek:

;) funny.

I use Aeroshell 15-50 semisynthetic based on my own experience and the recommendation of a buddy who maintains a fleet of a couple dozen aircraft.
One oil for both airplanes year round to make it easy, not because it?s cheap, or even better.

I firmly believe if you fly often, at least once a month, keep your airplane in a decent environment, and change oil per the recommended 50 hours (with filter), you can use just about anything and reach TBO.
 
Since break in, we have been using Exxon Elite 15/50. I have used this oil in 3 other RV's with great success. We are presently using 2 qts per 50 hrs. Blackstone oil analysis have been very positive for 200 hrs on the IO390.
 
Many years ago I asked an Aeroshell rep this same question. He said that for the Texas climate the 100W+ was fine year-round and also the least expensive.

Lycoming also has an opinion. Texas and Alabama both have lots of mornings with crankcase temps below 60F.

oil.JPG
 
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Many years ago I asked an Aeroshell rep this same question. He said that for the Texas climate the 100W+ was fine year-round and also the least expensive.

Unless you do a lot of cross-country flying to the North during winter, I would think the advice would apply to your situation as well. 750 hours later, engine runs great (knock on wood), takes about 1 qt every 12-14 hours. (O-360 A1A).

My 2 cents.

Chris

Another datapoint that will do nothing to settle this discussion.... ;)

For the first 17 years and ~1200 hrs of my O-320 I used W100 year-round. I run a sump heater 24/7 in the winter months (uh oh.....did I just say that??) so the heavier oil was never an issue. A couple years ago I switched to Phillips XC20W-50 because it is now less expensive than W100. The reasons I formerly used W100 was cost and I had read the heavier oil didn't drain back into the sump as quickly but I don't know if that was factual. But oil usage hasn't changed with the Phillips so the RV-6 and I are both happy. I am usually able to get the -6 in the air weekly in the winter so the type of oil in the sump is probably a non-factor.
 
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Rocket Bob question ?

Bob, whats your issue with Camguard besides price ? I use it for perceived moisture resistance since I only fly once a week in winter. Also, I thought it supplied some wear resistance that straight Phillips 20-50 does not ?
 
So that's concerning. At 50 hours should I go ahead and switch to w100 plus instead of the 100 straight mineral oil to avoid any build up that a later switch to w100 plus may dislodge?

Short answer is YES, as soon as the break-in is complete ( basically the temps have dropped) then change to a fully formulated oil. 50 hr is likely too long. Once the oil consumption has stabilized for sure, the advantage of the 100 is over. You want all the advantages of lower friction, better acid control and the additives to keep stuff in suspension and not continue sludge formation. W100 or multigrade. I have personally switched to multigrade.

. . .Use the straight mineral oil for two short oil changes to get the wear particles out and switch the fully formulated oil of your choice.
 
. I have personally switched to multigrade.

. . .Use the straight mineral oil for two short oil changes to get the wear particles out and switch the fully formulated oil of your choice.

New 370 ready for first run tomorrow, plan is basically the same as above, 2 oil changes (5hrs then again at 20hrs) with Phillips 20W-50M then over to Phillips XC 20W-50.
Add some Camguard to the mix after 50-60 hrs.
 
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Bob, whats your issue with Camguard besides price ? I use it for perceived moisture resistance since I only fly once a week in winter. Also, I thought it supplied some wear resistance that straight Phillips 20-50 does not ?

Easy to answer.

Engines that I've worked on that have had a steady diet of XC are always clean inside.

Engines with a steady diet of Aeroshell and/or Camguard will have carboned ring lands, burnt oil deposits on the back sides of pistons, and everything inside is varnished.

I've seen pitted tappets and cams on engines with Camguard.

Blackstone will tell you there is no difference between brands: "we’re pretty confident in saying that, in general, it doesn’t matter what oil you use, as long as you’re following the manufacturer’s recommendations." That said, I've gotten samples to them from engines with known problems making plenty of shavings in the filter and they came back fine.

Bottom line is that one can use the least expensive oil, X/C, and with a bit of good behavior by doing things like: flying often, keep the engine cool, aggressively leaning, running LOP, changing oil on condition rather than on time or calendar, don't preheat too long, avoid starting cold, leave the dipstick open after flying or preheating...yada yada yada you can expect very few problems.
 
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This is one of those topics that is similar to politics or religion. You are never going to get the "right" answer because people express their experiences and their beliefs based on those experiences.

I've been following Mike Bush's recommendations for over 20 years as I use to be a twin Cessna owner for many years and Mike Bush is and was the man to listen to because he took his engines that were designed for 1500 hr TBO to close to 3000 hrs.
Someone suggested listening to him which is a good recommendation so that you can come up with your own conclusion. All i can tell you is that it is great education and like all other educational material, you have to decide how you will use your new found knowledge.
 
This is one of those topics that is similar to politics or religion. You are never going to get the "right" answer because people express their experiences and their beliefs based on those experiences.

Disagree. I see what I see. Have had many in-depth conversations with one of the Phillips engineers when a close friend was testing oil for them.

Bottom line: X/C is less expensive and works as well according to the data presented in the newsletter here: https://gallery.mailchimp.com/f6413...-394c-43fd-bd81-56593f7c55a8/Aug_17_AC.01.pdf

And it doesn't paint the inside of your engine brown.

The comments about copper in Aeroshell samples is and has been interesting.
 
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I'm just going to mix some Phillips X/C and some Aeroshell w100 Plus with some MMO and Camguard just to cover all the bases ... thanks everyone for their input :D

(I'll be marketing my new blend as Dr. B's RV Love Potion No. 1)
 
I'm just going to mix some Phillips X/C and some Aeroshell w100 Plus with some MMO and Camguard just to cover all the bases ... thanks everyone for their input :D

(I'll be marketing my new blend as Dr. B's RV Love Potion No. 1)

Just be sure to sell it for $10/qt. I'm sure you would get a lot of customers! Because spending more for something ALWAYS means its better.
 
15W50 or 100w?

I use it to remove the s*** Aeroshell leaves behind. Works great for that.

Bob, you say Aeroshell. Are you talking about both 15W50 and 100W, or just 100W? I’ve been using Exxon Elite 20W50 and I’m about to switch to either Aeroshell 15W50 witch sounds like it’s the closest match or Phillips XC 20W50.
 
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Engine Break-in - Brand new Thunderbolt IO-390

I received the engine from Van's about a month ago. It's still in the box but I am hoping to be ready to hang it in the next two to three weeks.

A few questions from those who have already gotten to this point:

1) Is there any oil in the engine now? I assume yes, since it must have been run at the factory, right?

2) If yes, am I supposed to leave that oil in there for the first several hours or do I change it to new mineral oil for the first start?

3) What is the recommended oil change interval for a new engine using mineral oil? I have heard 10, 25 and 50 hours but when I looked at the Lycoming 1014M instruction it doesn't say anything.

4) Should I use the LW-16702 additive that Lycoming references? They say it "may be used" but do not describe when or why (or even what it does)?

5) The Lycoming instruction says to use mineral oil until consumption stabilizes or until 50 hours. How will I know when consumption stabilizes?

6) What is the "expected" consumption during break-in?

7) Lastly, any guidance on first start procedure? I know I am supposed to run the engine "hard" at first to seat the rings, but other than that what should I do? Do I need to prep the engine in any way prior to first start?

Thanks for any advice and insight.
 
8oz. MMO at every oil change. All my engines have used it for years, excellent upper cylinder lubricant.
 
AMSOIL

Developed for aircraft engines at the outset - is ashless/dispersent, but you won't find that written anywhere except in a very old TAP publication - which is now only electronic. Too slippery for break-in, I am told.

Have a chat with the Reno boys who get ~1000HP @ ~100"MP @2800RPM out of 550/540 cu in - none of those fellas are using straight aircraft oil. One fella flies in from the E Coast and goes thru the racing cycles, then changes oil and flies his plane home. How would you argue brands of oil with that success rate?

I had a 540 torn down for upgrades (pistons, induction etc) and the mechanic called me to ask what the heck oil I used - the engine looked new inside. AMSOIL 20W-50 for 250 hours was the treatment. Good enough for me.

If you want semi-synth oil, add 25% of your favorite synth to Phillips X-CY.

This ain't Rocket Science!
 
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I received the engine from Van's about a month ago. It's still in the box but I am hoping to be ready to hang it in the next two to three weeks.

A few questions from those who have already gotten to this point:

1) Is there any oil in the engine now? I assume yes, since it must have been run at the factory, right? There's a small amount of preservative oil in the cylinders and possibly a little left in the case

2) If yes, am I supposed to leave that oil in there for the first several hours or do I change it to new mineral oil for the first start?Drain the oil from the cylinders before turning the engine over

3) What is the recommended oil change interval for a new engine using mineral oil? I have heard 10, 25 and 50 hours but when I looked at the Lycoming 1014M instruction it doesn't say anything.I used Phillips 20/50 type M for break in. changed at 5 hrs, 25 and 50. then went to Phillips 20w50X/C

4) Should I use the LW-16702 additive that Lycoming references? They say it "may be used" but do not describe when or why (or even what it does)?Not needed

5) The Lycoming instruction says to use mineral oil until consumption stabilizes or until 50 hours. How will I know when consumption stabilizes? It'll eat a lot of oil the first few hrs. just run the mineral oil until you hit 50

6) What is the "expected" consumption during break-in?About a qt. per hr for the first few

7) Lastly, any guidance on first start procedure? I know I am supposed to run the engine "hard" at first to seat the rings, but other than that what should I do? Do I need to prep the engine in any way prior to first start?

Thanks for any advice and insight.

info in red
 
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