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CLICK…..OH NO !

BH1166

Well Known Member
Full disclosure…. Flew to OSH last Thursday, overnighted in IN, I left MASTER ON only, my GRT EIS 4000 running all night =12 hours z(no switch, on with Master)

Crossed fingers, primed well, three good revolutions, engine fired up. Ran, 3 minutes, shutdown, finished preflight. Climbed in, pushed starter, fired up, 2 hour flight, fuel, no issues on startup , happy and elated, landing at OSH for 6 days.

Left OSH Thursday 28th, 8am, no issues starting, taxi to 36L, flew two hours, landed ,fueled up….CLICK….pushed starter second time ….started WHEW !

Flew 4 hours, high around weather, landed for fuel, CLICK …. pushed again started right up. WHEW #2

Hard to think battery is my issue, but don’t know for sure. B&C ALTERNATOR 13.9 output is what EIS has always reported. PC680 4yrs 6 months old, Skytec 149nl, 3yrs 7 months old since new, starter solenoid 4yr 4 months old. I fly weekly , 140+/- a year for past 4 years.

Thoughts? Thanks
 
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I am a little confused by your last sentence.
Are you currently using the B&C starter or the SkyTech Starter?

When you say "CLICK". Does the prop start to rotate at all?
 
What kind of starter button? Had the same thing and went through 3 starter buttons, they are very, very low current switches and they must arc and become erratic after a while even at the 2-3 amps needed to close the starter solenoid. I added a relay inline with the button and no more problems.
 
Put a diode across the switch and your contacts will last a lot longer and make sure you have a diode across the solenoid coil.
 
Here's a disciplined troubleshooting approach:
https://skytec.aero/aircraft-starter-performance-issues/
I see 9.8-10.5 volts (measured from the starter hot terminal to the starter body) when all is working well.

Handy 30 foot test leads:
https://www.harborfreight.com/30-ft-retractable-test-leads-58024.html

My last intermittent starter problem turned out to be the starter relay (24021) on the firewall. Lake View Electronics had a better price ($18) than Van's, and shipped me a couple of them quickly.
 
What kind of starter button? Had the same thing and went through 3 starter buttons, they are very, very low current switches and they must arc and become erratic after a while even at the 2-3 amps needed to close the starter solenoid. I added a relay inline with the button and no more problems.

When the pilot releases the starter button, a large voltage is generated by the starter relay windings as the relay's magnetic field collapses (V=L*di/dt). $11 will protect the starter button/switch:
https://store.vansaircraft.com/surge-protection-diode-for-starter-relay-es-diode-starter.html

Vans has a similar diode to protect the master switch from the same phenomena:
https://store.vansaircraft.com/surge-protection-diode-for-master-relay-es-diode-master.html
 
13.9 isn't the greatest charging voltage. Odyssey calls for more like 14.4.

My 5 year old PC680s cranked slower and slower. Four and a half years is pretty old for a lead acid battery even in a car that gets run every day. Airplane batteries have a hard life.

Click and then crank kinda sounds like switch/contactor problems. Might be made worse by old battery.

Finally, dirty connections have caused many starting/charging problems both on the positive and ground sides. I've seen old tarnished buss bars that provided so much resistance at the connections that the battery saw much lower voltage than the alternator was putting out. Might be worth making some jumper wires to safely read battery voltage in the cockpit with a VOM. That's how we diagnosed a Mooney's charging problems.

Ed Holyoke

Full disclosure…. Flew to OSH last Thursday, overnighted in IN, I left MASTER ON only, my GRT EIS 4000 running all night =12 hours z(no switch, on with Master)

Crossed fingers, primed well, three good revolutions, engine fired up. Ran, 3 minutes, shutdown, finished preflight. Climbed in, pushed starter, fired up, 2 hour flight, fuel, no issues on startup , happy and elated, landing at OSH for 6 days.

Left OSH Thursday 28th, 8am, no issues starting, taxi to 36L, flew two hours, landed ,fueled up….CLICK….pushed starter second time ….started WHEW !

Flew 4 hours, high around weather, landed for fuel, CLICK …. pushed again started right up. WHEW #2

Hard to think battery is my issue, but don’t know for sure. B&C starter, 13.9 output is what EIS has always reported. PC680 4yrs 6 months old, Skytec 149nl, 3yrs 7 months old since new, starter solenoid 4yr 4 months old. I fly weekly , 140+/- a year for past 4 years.

Thoughts? Thanks
 
If this starter has a piggyback solenoid then I would look to that first. Long story, but it was the starter solenoid, cracked solder joint inherent to the skytec solenoid design.

What B&C starter part number is it?

reference:https://vansairforce.net/community/showpost.php?p=1550502&postcount=16

PS Edit: It looks like the B&C has a different design, but still a good place to begin the diagnostics. It could be the firewall start solenoid too. . . or other connection between the battery and activation post. I installed a ground and hot wire to my starter to measure the voltage when the start switch was activated as it was impossible to diagnose otherwise as an intermittent problem.

Good luck.
 
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Sorry for the circumstancial reply but every time I've ever had a solenoid "click", followed by a second successful start attempt, it has always been a weak or failing battery.

That's not to say it couldn't be caused by a number of other things (often a bad ground) but the fact that this manifested itself immediately after having left the Master "on" overnight...
 
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Typo found by Noel….. B&C Alternator charging output 13.9…..

Click, no rotation at all. Just went to hangar cleaning plane, bumped starter….it moved.

Thanks, edited post
 
I think 4.5 years is long enough to ask of a PC680. Relatively inexpensive to change it and see if troubles continue.
I change em early rather than worry or carry jumping cables or a charger. Think of what u would have done at KBFR at 6pm with no one at the airport to help.
 
When the pilot releases the starter button, a large voltage is generated by the starter relay windings as the relay's magnetic field collapses (V=L*di/dt). $11 will protect the starter button/switch:
https://store.vansaircraft.com/surge-protection-diode-for-starter-relay-es-diode-starter.html

Vans has a similar diode to protect the master switch from the same phenomena:
https://store.vansaircraft.com/surge-protection-diode-for-master-relay-es-diode-master.html


Thanks Tim, diode on both start solenoid and one on master.
 
What kind of starter button? Had the same thing and went through 3 starter buttons, they are very, very low current switches and they must arc and become erratic after a while even at the 2-3 amps needed to close the starter solenoid. I added a relay inline with the button and no more problems.


Honeywell AML series is the start.
 
If this starter has a piggyback solenoid then I would look to that first. Long story, but it was the starter solenoid, cracked solder joint inherent to the skytec solenoid design.

What B&C starter part number is it?

reference:https://vansairforce.net/community/showpost.php?p=1550502&postcount=16


Good luck.


Bill … Skytec 149NL I believe has a solenoid on the starter. Brian Decker mentioned this in a post I found doing searches for solution. My older 6A has starter and master solenoid on the cool side of firewall, along with battery.
 
Sorry for the circumstancial reply but every time I've ever had a solenoid "click", followed by a second successful start attempt, it has always been a weak or failing battery.

That's not to say it couldn't be caused by a number of other things (often a bad ground) but the fact that this manifested itself immediately after having left the Master "on" overnight...


I hear ya Brad and Keith….. just like to know the problem before starting to replacing parts. Thanks
 
Me too

I just recently started getting the dreaded "click". SkyTec 149-12LS, 22 years old / 1700 hrs.

Performed diagnostics per SkyTec and some other stuff. All good up to the starter, good grounds and I get 14V at the solenoid. It's happened three times and I've managed to make it crank in two ways:

1) Wiggled the spade connector on the solenoid on the starter.
2) Bonked the starter with the butt end of a hammer

If I only wiggle the female wire spade connector relative to the male connector on the solenoid, it doesn't change it (that said, after I did that I did clean some oil off from between those two). But after I wiggled the male starter solenoid's spade where it enters the starter housing, it would crank. And, should that be loose at all in the first place? See pic.

It feels like a solenoid problem to me, but is there any way to diagnose further to make sure it's not brushes?

I also found some threads re. getting the starter rebuilt or replacing the solenoid with a "Crown Vic" one. I'll probably try that but looking for any confirmation that it's actually the problem. There was no indication of failing brushes or anything before this, always cranked fine and still strong when I can get it to crank.
 

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Recently changed out my starter solenoid on my Skytec starter with the recommended “Crown Vic” solenoid. I’d been having cranking issues for a long, long time. New solenoid solved my problems.

There’s a thread here that has the part number so do a VAF search. BTW, Skytec doesn’t have an overhaul/parts manual because they only “replace not repair “ starters.
 
Recently changed out my starter solenoid on my Skytec starter with the recommended “Crown Vic” solenoid. I’d been having cranking issues for a long, long time. New solenoid solved my problems.

There’s a thread here that has the part number so do a VAF search.
Thanks I found that, specifically: "BWD S5613 from Advanced Auto Parts. I've read also that NAPA ECH ST421 works."

I found one as Standard Motor Products SS754, $39 at OReilly. Replaced on my SkyTec today, works.
 
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