What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Please give me some input on this panel

sneedrv-6

Well Known Member
Finishing my IFR ticket and would like some input on upgrading my VFR panel. This is what I am currently thinking. I am going back and for on 1 or 2 screens.

Thanks a bunch,

Jason Sneed

RV-6

Also, does anyone know if I can somehow get away with only 1 com antenna but have 2 com radios? I hate the thought of having 2 com antennas and a nav antenna hanging in the wind.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15606090@N07/2701303257/sizes/l/
 
Unless you fly regularly with an active co-pilot consider moving both screens together in front of the pilot, ala Cirrus, etc. You can then leave one screen on ALL PFD and the other on the full MFD. The dual screen AFS system is turning into a popular solution. Also, I like the autopilot centrally located as I usually teach non-pilots passengers to use it "in case of emergency."

2701303257_7660b3bbf4_b.jpg


This is my layout.
10PanelAFS.jpg


http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/91Panel/index.html
 
Thanks for the input... If I put both screens together isn't the radio stack going to be too far away? I am considering just going with one screen because it seems to me anything you put on the right side of the panel is hard to see and operate.

Jason
 
Not too far

The radio stack on the second photo is right where Affordable Panels puts theirs (immediately right of center). I have a panel made by them (not flying yet). When I sit in the cockpit (and make my noises), everything seems perfect.

I would tend to center the EFIS(s) directly in front of the pilot and keep all inflight switches and any instrument with switches or knobs to be located for easy use of the throttle hand, as oposed to the flying hand.

My 02 cents worth.

Bevan
 
Hi Jason,

First with an RV6 panel, try to stay away from the big 3 1/8" backup instruments. Next, have a look at Alex D's RV7 panel with Dual AFS EFISes in it and the radio stack off to the right.

Alex D's new AFS panel: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=242691&postcount=343

Doug's new AFS panel: http://www.vansairforce.net/_IFR/images/DRRV6_black_d.jpg
Still a bit more tweaking to do on DR's panel layout, but we're getting close.

Alex does a LOT of transition training and we spent a lot of time on his layout. Note that Doug Reeves new RV6 panel will be nearly identical to Alex's....

It can be done and doesn't move the stack too far to the right at all. There are a lot of other options, but the -6 will test your patience when it comes to room of available real-estate so you have to be picky and carefull about planning of it.

My 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein
 
Use two com antennas...

Also, does anyone know if I can somehow get away with only 1 com antenna but have 2 com radios? I hate the thought of having 2 com antennas and a nav antenna hanging in the wind.

If you transmit on one with another radio hooked up to receive on that same antenna you might damage the other radio.

The Archer wing tip antenna for NAV work fine, put the two com antenna's out in the wind.

Kent
 
Ok, a couple of things. First, a glance at my panel in this thread to show you where I'm coming from.

Now, will you be using the 496 regularly? If it's a backup, then I'd set up a mount that places it over one of the displays when needed. Then I'd use the side space for your backup instruments.

Ergonomically, I'm not a fan of having the switches up high. I like them low and close to my hands. If you intend to have a copilot, centering them would be a good idea. Not so important with the CBs, as they shouldn't get used much. By the way, there's a pretty good CB/fuse debate going on; I think Stein had the best things to say in there. Worth looking at.

I'm not familiar with your EFIS of choice. I only need one display for mine and the picture you have shows a similar display mode: HSI and moving map. Mine has a synthetic vision window above the HSI and I can call up the engine display with a single button press; press again and it is dismissed. I also get a pop-up window to run the autopilot. I'm not trying to sell you on the BMA EFIS; I'm leading up to the thought that you may not need a seperate autopilot head or a second display. A little research into the capabilities of your EFIS would clarify that for you.

My panel ended up with a lot more 'stuff' on it than I had originally considered. Above the start switch are the switches for the autopilot master and the backup battery for the ADI. Below the compass, along with the hobbs is a CO detector and the remote panel for the ELT. Above the glove box is the fuel injection purge control and the switch and breaker for the battery backup to the Lightspeeds. To the right of the glove box is a music input an mute enable switch, plus a power receptacle. And I was determined to keep the tip-up canopy release, so room had to be allocated for that. It took a few iterations before the layout was finalized, so be prepared and be flexible.

Finally, consider putting the headset jacks on the seat brace between the seats. Having the cords behind you is better than in your lap. It also frees up a bit of precious panel space.
 
I have a portable GPS in the plane I fly now and for the longest time had a space for one on the RV-10. Lately however I have reconsidered the portable. Here is why: The AFS EFIS has provisions for an internal battery ($127) a VFR GPS ($299) and XM weather ($799). The AFS map option adds another $800 bring the equivalent of 496 for around $2000. Unless you already have a 496, opting for these on the AFS may be a better use of panel real estate and dollars.

Also, panel glove boxes are a relic of the '70s. Consider removing the glove box from the panel and opting instead for a center console/glovebox that would accomplish the same. Then you can move the backup instruments over there.

Oh, and you are covered as far as the FAR for a clock/timer with the AFS and the Garmin transponder so you can also lose the panel clock.

2702943736_f612ac7575_b.jpg
 
Heh. I was required to put the glovebox in; it's for the copilot's knitting. ;) I'm also going to put a swing-around mount on the side rail so she can put a portable DVD player in front of her (hence the audio input and power receptacle over there). And if you question the necessity of these luxuries I can only say that you have not spent time in a small space with a cranky redhead.:p
 
I'm not saying this is your best bet but I just put two AFS screens in mine. Eliminating the analog gages by having separate AHRS units on each screen, giving redundancy because with each unit has their own flight and Nav instruments and internal batteries. I put one on each side of the panel to accommodate my co-pilot but next time for serious IFR I would make it side by side. Larry
 
Heh. I was required to put the glovebox in; it's for the copilot's knitting. ;) I'm also going to put a swing-around mount on the side rail so she can put a portable DVD player in front of her (hence the audio input and power receptacle over there). And if you question the necessity of these luxuries I can only say that you have not spent time in a small space with a cranky redhead.:p

Yeah, I know what you mean. That display on the right above the airspeed and altimeter is a Jensen VM9022 AM/FM/XM/DVD Player. Maybe I can even get this camera in the VS tip for a look ahead.

h110VM9022-f.jpeg
 
2712185644_719e5e13b0_b.jpg


Thanks for the ideas and input.. I already have the 496 and plan on getting weather from it, but in the future I am sure I would get weather on the EFIS. I think that is as easy as sending the EFIS in with some money, and having an antenna on the glare shield. I like the headset jacks on the seat support, thanks for that. I am at OSH now so I am sure I will get a bunch of input. Right now my bid decision is trying to figure out if I should get the 327 or the 330 transponder so I can display traffic on the EFIS.

Thanks again,

Jason
 
Last edited:
Ovals

William, I really like your panel, clean layout. I'm wondering though, what are the ovals on each side of the panel?

-Andy
 
Here is version 3 posted above... Any input on this would really help me out...

Thanks a bunch,

Jason

I like the clean layout Jason. A couple of things that you might consider:

1) You probably won't get the circuit breakers that close together - expect them to spread out a ways, as you will need some room for wiring to keep things from shorting out.

2) Although I know that lots of people are putting the radio stack that far right, I would make sure that YOU are comfortable with it there. That means putting the mockup in the airplane, putting in representative cushions, sitting back in the seat as if you are strapped in, then reaching for the right hand knob on the 430 - that is the one you'll use the most (along with the buttons on the right). If it feels good to you, then go for it!

Paul
 
Raise the corners

It looks to me like you could put your headphone jacks higher on the panel and raise the corners to above the longeron which opens up some extra room for your knee/thigh to lean over. Like this:

RV6APanelProgress2.jpg
 
William, I really like your panel, clean layout. I'm wondering though, what are the ovals on each side of the panel?

-Andy
Fresh air vents! From Ford Focus (p/n: 98AB 19893 CBW) with 2" scat adapters added to the back. Greater air volume, better control and better sealing than the round "aviation" units.
 
The map box is a necessity

in my opinion. All of Vans factory planes have one. The map box is the first thing that I put in my panel. You just have to have a place for all the cockpit clutter. You may be able to orient it vertical like you show in your layout instead of horizontal like the vans kit has it. That way all the maps sit on edge and nothing is on top of anything else.

Just my opinion though.

Bruce Reynolds
RV-6A
 
2722820343_773328ec8a_b.jpg



Here is the 3rd version and I hope it is close to the final version. Decided to just have 2 screens each with an ARHS and each with battery backup. This way I do not need the backup instruments and gain ARHS checking each other out. I would like to have some input on where to put the 496 which I already own. In talking to Rob at AFS his plan is for the EFIS to do everything the 496 does in the future. I view the 496 as having limited time in the panel. For this reason I do not really want to mount the 496 in the panel. If it goes to the left of the PFD I would ram mount it even though the pic shows an air gizmo. The other option is to put it in the stack with the garmin 430 with an air gizmo mount, One I remove the air gizmo maybe I could cover the hole with a blank. Love to get some comments on the above and where to put the 496 in the stack... I was thinking at the bottom since I plan for it to be out of the panel some time soon. Anyone know for sure this setup is legal for IFR trying to much through the regs now...

Thanks for the imput...

Jason
 
Last edited:
Two thoughts Jason....

1) I really like my 396 on the RAM mount - it is easy to use, and doesn't require a big hole in the panel. Especially if you think it will go away later, the RAM mount could be a good idea! (We have the 396's in both our RV's mounted that way)

2) the panel should be legal - but you might consider the ramifications of a software fault in the AFS - it would affect BOTH of your systems, leaving you with no backup. This is a very low probability event, but the results could be catastrophic, therefore, it is something you should consider. That's why some of us use backup instruments, or at least an EFIS coded by someone else. Again - low probability, but a consideration.

Paul
 
Update to my panel

2795268576_4a048e1679_b.jpg


Here is the update, had to mount the efis low due to support brace. What do you guys think about the efis not being center vision? (purple circle is center vision) The problem is that if I move the EFIS to the right the radio stack is to far away from me. I would love to hear any comments. The panel to the right of the radio stack is an access panel. Thanks a bunch...

Jason Sneed
RV-6
 
Last edited:
If you transmit on one with another radio hooked up to receive on that same antenna you might damage the other radio.
I'd say the odds are really good that you'll damage the other radio ... not quite 100%, but very, very, very high. And once the magic smoke leaks out, the radio will stop working, except as a doorstop :)

TODR
 
2 Radio's One Aerial

Jason,

There are a number of manufacturers that allow combining two radios into one aerial.

The product you need is called I think a Diplexor, Comant produce one, but a Google search will throw up a number of others.

Try this as an example: http://www.comant.com/productdetail.aspx?PID=210

Good luck with the Panel (by the way I went completely over the top in my RV7 with three AFS Screens!!

Mark
 
Why one?

Why just 1 antenna? You put 2 radios in for a reason....one of which is backup in case one fails.

If your antenna coax gets a bit of corrosion or comes loose from the connector, antenna is dirty (like another post)....you're toast and radio silent.

If the worry is drag - put it in the wingtip.

Its amazing how nice instrumentation has become. Don't make panel so nice that you forget to look outside and enjoy the view. Sometimes more is less.
 
thanks for the input...

The avionics shop installed 2 antennas... I wanted to do the wingtip thing but the guy that painted the wingtips painted over the screws with a lot of paint. Would have wrecked the paint job..

Jason
 
Finished

After getting my instrument and Multi-commercial ticket I picked up my plane. Here is the pic... Thanks for all the input I received.

Jason

3046695535_9effe06968_b.jpg
 
Instrument panel

very nice panel, but you may want to rethink the light grey on top. I had that on my first RV and it reflected on the windshield and was very distracting.

Ed Booth, Trenton, SC
 
Panel

Very nice...

So the AFS EFISs are in essence completely self contained units then?

Im' curious what you have fore redundancy in regards to backup batteries, and electrical systems?

I've seen comments about software bugs being the same, but working in the software field, I'm not personally so concerned. The chances of both systems experiencing the same bug at the same time are pretty low, as there generally are other things that cause crashes (heat, failed components, cosmic rays (seriously), and so on). Software is part of the equation of course...so still a chance.
 
backup

I have dual units, and dual ahrs, Both the PFD and the MFD have their own internal battery backup. So complete electrical failure in IMC and not able to get to VMC you call atc declare emergency and ask for a radar approach and use the 496 with radar guidance. If you can not get a radar approach you shoot a gps approach with the 496 which also has a backup battery. Actually I think one of my weak links is having 2 efis's that are the same and running the same software. If there is a software bug that hangs the efis it may hang both at the same time. If I were to add say a TT adi it may be smart, although descending through 8,000 feet of imc to get vmc is doable on the 496. I am comfortable trying to have 1 backup for each system. I feel like you can over do it on the backups when your flying an experimental with a crude single engine up front. If money was not an issue it may have been smart to have an SL30 instead of the icom com2 and a small TT ADI, but thats more money and weight.
 
Jason,

There are a number of manufacturers that allow combining two radios into one aerial.

The product you need is called I think a Diplexor, Comant produce one, but a Google search will throw up a number of others.

Try this as an example: http://www.comant.com/productdetail.aspx?PID=210

Mark

Power combiners/diplexers/antenna couplers are ONLY for received signals. Do NOT use them to couple two transmitters to one antenna.

And be aware that if you do use them to split the received signal from an antenna to two (or more) receivers, you will decrease the receiver sensitivity and thus the range over which you can receive signals from a distant VOR or whatever.
 
Back
Top