What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Touch & Goes in an RV-8A

jjhoneck

Well Known Member
The "Go Around" thread got me thinking about doing T&Gs in our -8A, which I do not enjoy. Which got me wondering...what do you guys do?

Unfortunately our flap control is a toggle switch on the left side of the panel. This makes touch & goes VERY busy, indeed, since your left hand is working the throttle AND the flaps.

Obviously the long-term solution is to get the flap control on the control stick, (and that's in "Phase 2" of our modernization plan) but, for now, here's what we do during touch & goes:

1. Full flap smoothest possible landing...
2. During the roll-out, keep throttle retarded, remove hand from throttle, and raise flaps...
3. Wait for flaps to retract, as the end of the runway looms closer, and closer...
4. Apply full power once flaps are fully raised.

It's #3 that bothers us. Our runway is fairly short, at 3400', so you can roll quite a ways whilst waiting on the flaps to come up. Add in a bit of a float, and a long landing, and you could find trouble in a hurry.

I see in the "Go Around" thread that during an aborted landing guys are simply adding power with the flaps down, and pitching to an airspeed. I haven't tried this, but it seems like perhaps this would be a "less busy" method of doing a touch & go, as well.

Once to a safe altitude, we could then retract the flaps. This is certainly a lower workload approach.

Is this what you do? If not, what DO you do? Any other advice?

Thanks!
 
When I'm flying the -6, I wait until I'm back in the air to retract the (manual) flaps. No sense messing with that on the runway.
 
Pitch to 80 Knots

I add power but is is smooth and steady, pitch to around 80 knots to protect the full flaps. The plane climbs and accelerates great. Once airborne and with a good climb rate I lower the nose and put the flaps to full up. This happens fairly fast and it is really one continuous maneuver since the acceleration happens fast. I never get a settle as the plane accelerates about as fast as the flaps come up.

I would go out and just tray a climb out with full flaps for a couple hundred feet then shallow your climb and clean up the flaps. If you do this a few times then you will get comfortable enough to do it all nearly at the same time.

I generally don't do touch and goes to minimize ware on the tires, I do a low approach to a near touch down, I figure if I can get this close then the landing is a not a problem.

This is what works for me, others I am sure will chime in with other techniques.

Cheers
 
The "Go Around" thread got me thinking about doing T&Gs in our -8A, which I do not enjoy. Which got me wondering...what do you guys do?

Unfortunately our flap control is a toggle switch on the left side of the panel. This makes touch & goes VERY busy, indeed, since your left hand is working the throttle AND the flaps.

Obviously the long-term solution is to get the flap control on the control stick, (and that's in "Phase 2" of our modernization plan) but, for now, here's what we do during touch & goes:

1. Full flap smoothest possible landing...
2. During the roll-out, keep throttle retarded, remove hand from throttle, and raise flaps...
3. Wait for flaps to retract, as the end of the runway looms closer, and closer...
4. Apply full power once flaps are fully raised.

It's #3 that bothers us. Our runway is fairly short, at 3400', so you can roll quite a ways whilst waiting on the flaps to come up. Add in a bit of a float, and a long landing, and you could find trouble in a hurry.

I see in the "Go Around" thread that during an aborted landing guys are simply adding power with the flaps down, and pitching to an airspeed. I haven't tried this, but it seems like perhaps this would be a "less busy" method of doing a touch & go, as well.

Once to a safe altitude, we could then retract the flaps. This is certainly a lower workload approach.

Is this what you do? If not, what DO you do? Any other advice?

Thanks!

I know of three fatal accidents from flaps on the stick.

I realize everyone wants the fighter style HOTAS, but from flying fighters I can tell you the only flight control you'll find is on the throttle and it's the speed brake.

If the short field is a factor I would suggest either doing full stop/taxi backs, or go around with full flaps. Gear and flaps down in the pattern is how we teach it in the Navy while in the pattern. You'll put fewer cycles on your flap motor too.
 
Last edited:
I retract flaps before adding power on the roll out. If you hit the numbers you have plenty of roll distance on most runways. If you think you are long then just do not add power and brake to stop.
It is to easy for me to accel past flap speed before getting the flaps up if I wait until I am in the air. Too many other items to watch on climb out like airspeed, engine gage's, and out the window to be changing the airplane configuration as well.
Flap switch on the panel, not on the stick.
 
Jay,

I have just been doing touch and goes and low approaches with a buddy in our 7 to get him used to the airplane.

Here is what we have been doing and it is most successful.

Partial flap - bring about 50% flap out on base, trim etc and use that for the approach - you won't notice the difference and the performance won't be compromised on that length runway - we are doing these approaches onto 2400' of grass.

We leave 23/23 power for the whole session - you have sufficient power for the go around, the prop braking isn't as severe in the flare.

What this gives us is an easy operation, no hands flying around the cockpit, everything becomes a lot smoother and easier. You also get used to setting a power by sense and feel which aids your experience level. Once you are climbing away, trimmed and under control, the flap can be retracted in due course.

Now, if you need the landing performance and are stopping off the approach, then of course full fine and full flap is the sensible route.
 
Full flaps

In a RV-7A one can do a whole circuit from touch and go to landing with full flaps.
And , no I won't tell you why I'm positive about this. :D :rolleyes:
 
Flaps on the stick

SIG600, can you tell us about the problems with flaps on the stick? My flaps are on the stick, and I would like to hear about it.
 
HOTASS in my -4

I would also like to hear the negatives to flaps on stick, as I have the MAC grips with trim and flaps on mine. I simply wouldn't have it any other way after 200 hundred hours of flying it...I love the set-up and the flap switches are well separated. It is easy to do go-arounds and get flaps up/down while never leaving the throttle or stick. I have indicator markings on the flap LE's that are easy to see while looking at the run-way in the pattern,so there is no detent, position switch, ect.. As others have reflected, the plane is capable of full flap go-arounds with no problem.
 
Whether you have the flap switch on the grip or on the panel, I think it's a good idea to have the type switch that is spring-loaded DOWN and fixed position UP. That way, on the go-around from a touch-and-go or missed approach, whatever, all you need to do is flip the flap switch up and forget about flaps until you get up to traffic pattern altitude and can reposition the switch to neutral. This allows you to focus on adding power, trim, and attitude control much as you would on a normal takeoff. I think it's a distraction if you have to focus on bringing the flaps up in stages or if you have to hold the flap switch up while adding power, trimming, etc.

Of course, if you do this, it's a good idea to have a flaps up-limit switch in your flap system to turn off the flap motor once the flaps are all the way up. This to avoid running the flap motor inadvertently for long periods and burning it up.

For me, this is a safety of flight issue, and since I converted, touch-and-goes are much less busy and thus much safer.
 
The "Go Around" thread got me thinking about doing T&Gs in our -8A, which I do not enjoy. Which got me wondering...what do you guys do?

Unfortunately our flap control is a toggle switch on the left side of the panel. This makes touch & goes VERY busy, indeed, since your left hand is working the throttle AND the flaps.

Obviously the long-term solution is to get the flap control on the control stick, (and that's in "Phase 2" of our modernization plan) but, for now, here's what we do during touch & goes:

1. Full flap smoothest possible landing...
2. During the roll-out, keep throttle retarded, remove hand from throttle, and raise flaps...
3. Wait for flaps to retract, as the end of the runway looms closer, and closer...
4. Apply full power once flaps are fully raised.

It's #3 that bothers us. Our runway is fairly short, at 3400', so you can roll quite a ways whilst waiting on the flaps to come up. Add in a bit of a float, and a long landing, and you could find trouble in a hurry.

I see in the "Go Around" thread that during an aborted landing guys are simply adding power with the flaps down, and pitching to an airspeed. I haven't tried this, but it seems like perhaps this would be a "less busy" method of doing a touch & go, as well.

Once to a safe altitude, we could then retract the flaps. This is certainly a lower workload approach.

Is this what you do? If not, what DO you do? Any other advice?

Thanks!

Step 3 Flap switch up.
Step 4 Full power.
Step 5 Trim nose down.

Even our -10 accelerates and climbs at full gross while the flaps are slowly coming up in about 18 seconds. I have the flap and pitch trim switches beside the throttle.
 
I would

Put in full power, get off the ground, then start bringing up the flaps.

One thing that is a little off topic but you might try if you don't already, land without flaps. Only do this when you are by yourself, as the added weight with the passenger makes the landing extremely nose high. This will aid in keeping the nosewheel off the runway as long as possible.

Randy
8A
 
If you look back on your training as a student pilot you were told that on a go around flaps come up slowly with positive rate of climb. However, many people do leave their flaps down and that is a choice which will help you stay under flap speed (hopefully) all the way around the pattern. To address your question directly and focusing on not being busy on T&G's if your flap switch is spring loaded both down and up, and you feel you don't have time to bring the flaps up and take off as you would with a standard take-off, then get air born first, positive rater of climb, cleared of obstacles then worrying about bringing flaps up if you even choose to bring them up at this point at all. The general fear with instructors while their students are doing a go around is that they bring the flaps up too early before positive rate of climb and experience a less than optimal rate of climb:rolleyes:
 
Back
Top