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Is a 7" Skyview Big enough?

lr172

Well Known Member
I am thinking of upgrading my D100/D120 setup. I have been considering the GRT 8.4 HXr or the Skyview 7" (using upgrade promo). I have the standard RV-6 panel and I cannot fit the 10" models without significant panel surgery that I don't want to do at this time.

My plan is to have the PFD, map and Eng pages open most times. I really like the GRT HXr, as it seems to make the best use the real estate. However, a migration to Dynon would be much easier and re-use my A/P servos. The Dynon can only support a 40/20/40 screen configuration. Will this be adequate in the 7" model. Will the PFD in 40% of the screen be adequate for me? Is anyone using one this way? I am fine with my d100 at 7", but it seems the skyview has more detail and can't be sure what to expect.

My cutout for the second screen is way over by the co-pilot and is too far away to be usefull, especially in IFR. I am early in my Instr training and maybe this issue will go away in time.

I suppose that I could turn off the map and use my foreflight. However, part of the reason for the upgrade is to get traffic and weather in my center view.

Thanks for your input.

Larry
 
Larry,
These are the 10" Garmins. I put them next to each other so both would be in front of me. I may regret it having the radio so far over, but it is controllable with the screen. The AP is over there too and that may also be an issue.

I think with the 7" units, they would be closer and you could have your radio and AP or other stuff closer. Even with symmetrical, it is a pretty small cockpit. I am amazed at how good the resolution is on the screens.

Have fun. It's only money!
panel_zpssn7wu6uf.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
 
Two comments:

1) We are coming out with the 7" SkyView HDX shortly which has a much higher resolution screen, and supports the engine bar on the bottom.

2) You can fit (3) 10" Screens in an RV-6!:

IMG_0322s.jpg
 
A Seven Inch Screen is More than Adequate

The venerable "six pack" is made up of 3-1/8 inch instruments, each displaying only one or two pieces of flight information. A 7 inch screen takes up the space of 4 of these and presents ALL of the flight information and more. Your scan is reduced, alarms and limits can be set, and you're left with plenty of extra real estate for radios and othe appliances without even having to extend the panel downward - a potential access problem if you're anything more than "medium" sized. I've just installed a 7 inch GRT with a GRT Mini mounted to the left of the main screen. The Mini has a backup battery and will be used as such. Along with a GNS650, I've got three independent location and navigation sources, and the radio stack is an easy reach. Even have a glove/map box on the far right. Finally, if you're concerned about the visibility of the smaller screens, Aspen has TSO'd EFIS systems in thousands of aircraft, running much smaller displays, and size doesn't seem to be an issue.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
Don't know about the 6, but i have two 10 inch displays in a 7 panel with switches below on a stock panel, no sub panel. I have my radio stack between them. Bigger screens are great!
 
Don't know about the 6, but i have two 10 inch displays in a 7 panel with switches below on a stock panel, no sub panel. I have my radio stack between them. Bigger screens are great!

I'd really like to see a picture of that as I've been unable to fit 10" screens, radio stack and switches below without extending the panel. The RV7 panel below has about 1.5" extension.

KW-G3X-650.jpg
 
Here is a -7A with the standard panel and dual SV1000Ts. The screens could have been pushed out to the sides a little more but I wanted to leave room for a backup device like a D2.

I4FEizKl.jpg
 
Two comments:

1) We are coming out with the 7" SkyView HDX shortly which has a much higher resolution screen, and supports the engine bar on the bottom.

2) You can fit (3) 10" Screens in an RV-6!:

IMG_0322s.jpg

I like the HDX better. However, the Dynon path is only affordable in my case with the trade in promo and you have excluded the HDX from your trade in program; Not sure why. However, without the promo, the GRT option becomes less expensive for me.
 
I realize that I could get a 10" screen in, but not without a complete panel rebuild, which I am not interested in undertaking at this moment; Though I want that option in the future.

Any other thoughts about the usability / readability of SV 7" with PFD / Map / engine on the screen? I am also curious if anyone has any experience with both the Skyview and the GRT HXr. I am wondering if it is worth the extra effort to move in the GRT direction.

Larry
 
FWIW I don't know how big an RV6 panel is but I fly behind two 7" SkyView displays in my KIS4 airplane. The resolution is much more than adequate and makes possible the use of the 50/50 layout.
MUHA%20Approach%201_zpsnhiminmn.jpg


Here is what I posted back in March of 2013 on this setup.

Here is how I use my dual display Skyview with transponder, EMS, ARINC-429 and ADSB.

1 - Set up the Pilot display with PFD and Map page (50/50)
2 - Set up the Co-Pilot display with PFD and EMS page (50/50)

Before engine start, press the SWAP button so the Pilot display has PFD and EMS pages (50/50) while Co-Pilot display has PFD and MAP (50/50). Now the needed information for engine start, taxi, engine run up and takeoff is displayed in front of the pilot. At this point the Pilot really needs EMS page information and doesn't really need MAP page information.

After takeoff just hit the SWAP button and now it looks like the EMS page was replaced by the MAP page for the Pilot while the MAP page was replaced with the EMS page for the Co-Pilot. Both displays keep the PFD in the same location and it looks like it never moved.

Whenever you want to look at an engine parameter in flight, just hit the SWAP button and the EMS page replaces the MAP page without affecting the PFD page. Hit the SWAP button again and the MAP page replaces the EMS page again without affecting the PFD page.

Before landing, press the SWAP button so the Pilot display has PFD and EMS pages (50/50) while Co-Pilot display has PFD and MAP (50/50). Now the needed information for landing, taxi and engine shut down is displayed in front of the pilot. At this point the Pilot doesn't really need MAP page information anymore and has good shutdown information on the EMS page.

Skyview%20at%202R4_zpsxsta5koo.jpg


N819PR1000hrs-Traffic_zpsb2477e87.jpg


AND it gives you a "pseudo portrait layout" in a side by side format. It works really well for me.

:cool:
After 3yrs and over 300hrs of flying with this setup it makes a great combination even for actual IMC flying. YMMV
 
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I suggest that you finish your IFR training first. Then you'll be in a better position to decide. You say the right panel is too far away to be useful (which may well be true). If so, what is the plan if the primary screen dies? Also, do you have a heated pitot tube? The GRT will give you good attitude data without it, but the Dynon relies on airspeed (or GPS data if it detects the pitot failure) for the horizon solution. Do you want a fully integrated panel, or one where backups are fully independent? There are good arguments for both. Is there a plan if the main electrical buss faults to ground? There's a lot more to think about than just how well you can read one display.
 
I suggest that you finish your IFR training first. Then you'll be in a better position to decide. You say the right panel is too far away to be useful (which may well be true). If so, what is the plan if the primary screen dies? Also, do you have a heated pitot tube? The GRT will give you good attitude data without it, but the Dynon relies on airspeed (or GPS data if it detects the pitot failure) for the horizon solution. Do you want a fully integrated panel, or one where backups are fully independent? There are good arguments for both. Is there a plan if the main electrical buss faults to ground? There's a lot more to think about than just how well you can read one display.

Thanks for your input. I currently have a steam A/S, ALT and a TT ADI w/batt b/u for redundancy. The D100 has a batt and I would put a b/u batt on either the S/V or GRT. I do have a dynon heated pitot. I also have a 396 and ipad/FF as backup situational awareness/GPS-based 6 pack. KLN-90 and SL-30 also have a CDI display for backup, as does my handheld COMM/NAV. My A/P is currently driven off the Dynon and would stay there if I went S/V. I would probably put in a TT if I went GRT.
 
I'd really like to see a picture of that as I've been unable to fit 10" screens, radio stack and switches below without extending the panel. The RV7 panel below has about 1.5" extension.

KW-G3X-650.jpg


Walt - here's my setup in the 9A, the panel is the same size. Two 10" Dynon, central radios and switches/breakers on the bottom. I even have my engine controls on there without the subpanel. This is the Vans-standard part number F703. You'll notice where I put the audio panel, that may be whats stopping you?

IMG_0679_zps503229e4.jpg
 
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Any other thoughts about the usability / readability of SV 7" with PFD / Map / engine on the screen?

My personal opinion is that a single 7" Skyview screen is too small for displaying PFD, Map, and engine instruments.

A 7' HDX screen might be fine with the engine data bar on the bottom, but I haven't seen one yet.
 
My personal opinion is that a single 7" Skyview screen is too small for displaying PFD, Map, and engine instruments.

A 7' HDX screen might be fine with the engine data bar on the bottom, but I haven't seen one yet.

This was my fear. This kind of pushes me to the GRT HXr, which is 1.5" bigger and puts the engine data on the bottom strip. It also let's me use just a map inset, preserving more real estate for the PFD. For me, the PFD and Engine data are most critical, with the map as a benefit.

Larry
 
Walt - here's my setup in the 9A, the panel is the same size. Two 10" Dynon, central radios and switches/breakers on the bottom. I even have my engine controls on there without the subpanel. This is the Vans-standard part number F703. You'll notice where I put the audio panel, that may be whats stopping you?

I just compared the overall size of the Garmin and Dynon. The Garmin is approx. 1/2" wider and 3/4" taller, that what does it.
Thanks,
Walt
 
My A/P is currently driven off the Dynon and would stay there if I went S/V. I would probably put in a TT if I went GRT.

If you go with the HXr you have at least 3 autopilot options.
1. GRT autopilot. Probably the least expensive, but if you lose the EFIS you also lose the autopilot (same as the Dynon setup).
2. TT
3. Trio
No bad choices here, just different. Look at the pros/cons and decide. For the record I went with Trio.
 
If you go with the HXr you have at least 3 autopilot options.
1. GRT autopilot. Probably the least expensive, but if you lose the EFIS you also lose the autopilot (same as the Dynon setup).
2. TT
3. Trio
No bad choices here, just different. Look at the pros/cons and decide. For the record I went with Trio.

Using the same logic, I went with a second EFIS screen as a backup (GRT Mini-X) and the TruTrak autopilot controller. If the primary HX EFIS goes belly up, I still have a working A/P and PFD, but somewhat reduced navigation guidance cues on the EFIS.

Now that GRT has basic engine monitoring info available on the Mini, it makes it easier to have both a big and a small screen in front of the pilot, and then put whatever you want over on the copilot side.
 
In my opinion , it depends on how far the panel is from your eyes. I ,like you have a D100 and D120 in my SuperCub and like it just fine. We had a SV-1000 in front of the pilot and an SV-700 on the co-pilot side of our RV-10, and my partners shared my view in that the co-pilot was more comfortable looking at the pilots display rather than the SV-700 right in front of you. At the RV-10 distance the SV-700 just was not large enough. In my RV-14A I installed dual SV-1000 and have no regrets.
Just my opinion.
 
Be sure to take into account the depth of any items up near the top, that they don't interfere with the canopy stiffeners that run left-to-right at the forward end (can't find the part number and the drawings don't show them...I think they're a later addition and came with a separate drawing).

Anyway...just make sure deep items aren't set too high so that they interfere when the canopy is closed. Ask me how I know this.
 
Be sure to take into account the depth of any items up near the top, that they don't interfere with the canopy stiffeners that run left-to-right at the forward end (can't find the part number and the drawings don't show them...I think they're a later addition and came with a separate drawing).

Anyway...just make sure deep items aren't set too high so that they interfere when the canopy is closed. Ask me how I know this.

Thanks. I wouldn't have to put the 8.4" HXr any higher than my current D100. I would go lower and eat in the space that the HS-34 is consuming. I have a bunch of GPS annunciators on top of the EFIS that I would rather not move.

Larry
 
My personal opinion is that a single 7" Skyview screen is too small for displaying PFD, Map, and engine instruments.

A 7' HDX screen might be fine with the engine data bar on the bottom, but I haven't seen one yet.

I agree with Scott. We show the PFD and.the engine instruments on our 7" Skyview and use a iPad mini for the moving map in our RV-4. We plan to replace the 7" display with a 10" display in the near future.
 
Reviving an old thread. I'm no avionics historian, but it appears the 7" HDX wasn't available 5 years ago. I'm considering a single screen 7" HDX for my VFR RV8. I have the same concerns discussed that the 7" Skyview screen isn't big enough to display all the info. I'd be using the single screen for the PFD and the iPad for moving map. Are the engine instruments big enough to be practical across the bottom of the 7" screen?
 
The nice thing with the Skyview is you can tweak everything being displayed on the screens. For the EMS items, you can make them BIG or tiny, Bar or dial, etc. I have the 10" screen and once you get used to where to look for the data you want, it is easy to fly with. A 7" screen will probably be similar. If you go with multiple 7" screens, it should be fine and have more space than a single 10" screen. You can keep the MAP/ENGINE/PFD screens on separate screens. You can always flip between screens if the combined layout is too crowded. Need to LEAN? Go to the EMS page. Need to navigate and update your flight plan? Go to the MAP page.
 
Reviving an old thread. I'm no avionics historian, but it appears the 7" HDX wasn't available 5 years ago. I'm considering a single screen 7" HDX for my VFR RV8. I have the same concerns discussed that the 7" Skyview screen isn't big enough to display all the info. I'd be using the single screen for the PFD and the iPad for moving map. Are the engine instruments big enough to be practical across the bottom of the 7" screen?

In my experience, a 7" Dynon screen is big enough to display both PFD and engine information. Mine is not a HDX though... it's an older D180. My mapping info is on a separate small screen Garmin GPS supplemented with a 10" tablet.

If your intention for the RV8 is VFR then why not consider Skyview SE that is intended for VFR flying? There is no mapping capability, but you have the iPad for that. Skyview SE 7" is much lower cost than HDX and the display can be split 50:50, 80:20 or 100:0 between PFD and engine info.
 
I'm avoiding the classic Skyview SE because it lacks the navigation, mapping and ADS-B weather/traffic. The HDX is much earlier in it's design life, so unlikely to become obsolete as soon.

In Canada, they keep bickering and are indecisive about ADS-B traffic, diversity and all that. I know something is eventually coming down the pipe. I figured the HDX, being a much newer design is more likely to accomodate whatever becomes needed for the Canadian ADS-B requirement...whenever they figure that out.

That said, the 10" Skyview Classic is a very similar price to a 7" HDX with, from my needs, similar capability. The HDX screen is nicer, but is a 7" HDX better than a 10" Classic?
 
I am thinking of upgrading my D100/D120 setup. I have been considering the GRT 8.4 HXr or the Skyview 7" (using upgrade promo). I have the standard RV-6 panel and I cannot fit the 10" models without significant panel surgery that I don't want to do at this time.

My plan is to have the PFD, map and Eng pages open most times. I really like the GRT HXr, as it seems to make the best use the real estate. However, a migration to Dynon would be much easier and re-use my A/P servos. The Dynon can only support a 40/20/40 screen configuration. Will this be adequate in the 7" model. Will the PFD in 40% of the screen be adequate for me? Is anyone using one this way? I am fine with my d100 at 7", but it seems the skyview has more detail and can't be sure what to expect.

My cutout for the second screen is way over by the co-pilot and is too far away to be usefull, especially in IFR. I am early in my Instr training and maybe this issue will go away in time.

I suppose that I could turn off the map and use my foreflight. However, part of the reason for the upgrade is to get traffic and weather in my center view.

Thanks for your input.

Larry

I have a 7in and 10in in my new panel design. My panel is cut but I don't really have good pics of it with the display images. Michael Foss did a nice cockpit tour and you can see his 7in along side of his 10in for comparison. I would go 10in if you can stomach the surgery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_z2abcgpKI
 
Reviving an old thread. I'm no avionics historian, but it appears the 7" HDX wasn't available 5 years ago. I'm considering a single screen 7" HDX for my VFR RV8. I have the same concerns discussed that the 7" Skyview screen isn't big enough to display all the info. I'd be using the single screen for the PFD and the iPad for moving map. Are the engine instruments big enough to be practical across the bottom of the 7" screen?

I had the same concerns. I bought 2 used 7" SV-700s from a VAF member. Then, I had 2nd thoughts about it.

I recently got a chance to fly in an RV with the the 7" screens. I think in an RV-8, two 7" screens will be plenty big enough. In a -7 or -14, I think the 10" screens make more sense.

43416463300_362d88ca45_z.jpg
 
10 vs 7

I'm avoiding the classic Skyview SE because it lacks the navigation, mapping and ADS-B weather/traffic. The HDX is much earlier in it's design life, so unlikely to become obsolete as soon.

In Canada, they keep bickering and are indecisive about ADS-B traffic, diversity and all that. I know something is eventually coming down the pipe. I figured the HDX, being a much newer design is more likely to accomodate whatever becomes needed for the Canadian ADS-B requirement...whenever they figure that out.

That said, the 10" Skyview Classic is a very similar price to a 7" HDX with, from my needs, similar capability. The HDX screen is nicer, but is a 7" HDX better than a 10" Classic?

Hi David,
If the requirement is to display all 3 of PFD and engine info and mapping/traffic, then I think 10 inch Classic would be better than 7 inch HDX. There is also personal preference involved, for instance I prefer buttons and knobs over touch screen in turbulence, so wouldn't choose HDX in order to get touch screen.

Ideally we would try out each option before deciding, but not so easy unless visiting somewhere like Oshkosh! Another way is to contact Dynon tech support and ask for a high resolution screen capture of the display, which you can then scale and view on a computer screen or tablet. Example attached for SE, and I'm sure similar should be available for Classic and HDX.
 

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I'm avoiding the classic Skyview SE because it lacks the navigation, mapping and ADS-B weather/traffic. The HDX is much earlier in it's design life, so unlikely to become obsolete as soon.

In Canada, they keep bickering and are indecisive about ADS-B traffic, diversity and all that. I know something is eventually coming down the pipe. I figured the HDX, being a much newer design is more likely to accomodate whatever becomes needed for the Canadian ADS-B requirement...whenever they figure that out.

That said, the 10" Skyview Classic is a very similar price to a 7" HDX with, from my needs, similar capability. The HDX screen is nicer, but is a 7" HDX better than a 10" Classic?

Just to be clear... in Canada there is no bickering over ADSB weather/traffic. There is NONE planned to be offered by Nav Canada. Forget that dream.

The bickering comes from Nav Canada wanting to stuff their space-based ADSB system down our throats, trying to force a mandate for Diversity transponders so they can cut down their radar station replacement and maintenance budgets. Unlike in the US where there was the "if you do us a favor by equipping to make ATC easier, we'll give you a reward in the form of up-linked weather and traffic data", here in Canada we users will pay and get precious little in return.

Yes, there is a move afoot to introduce privately owned/operated ADSB uplink stations. They ain't cheap so the uptake rate is limited, to say the least.

I personally would not purchase an EFIS which did not give the ability to display ADSB traffic - with a dual-frequency ADSB-IN receiver we can see ADSB-OUT equipped traffic in our local area without having any ground-based uplink services.

Let me ask you to consider a very personal question... How old are you, and how good are your eyes? Improvements in screen resolution (HDX vs Classic) will make them easier to see. BUT as we age we still benefit from bigger print on the screen. A 10" HDX would be the way to help future-proof your cockpit from that undeniable human aging phenomenon.
 
FWIW; I have been flying with 2ea 7" DYNON screens since 2013 and find this combination is more than adequate, even for actual IFR flying which I do a lot of. Here is how I use my dual display Skyview with transponder, EMS, ARINC-429 and ADSB.

1 - Set up the default Pilot display with PFD and Map page (50/50)
N819PR1088hrs-MAP.jpg

2 - Set up the default Co-Pilot display with PFD and EMS page (50/50)
N819PR1088hrs-EMS.jpg

Before engine start, press the SWAP button so the Pilot display has PFD and EMS pages (50/50) while Co-Pilot display has PFD and MAP (50/50). Now the needed information for engine start, taxi, engine run up and takeoff is displayed in front of the pilot. At this point the Pilot really needs EMS page information and doesn't really need MAP page information.

After takeoff just hit the SWAP button and now it looks like the EMS page was replaced by the MAP page for the Pilot while the MAP page was replaced with the EMS page for the Co-Pilot. Both displays keep the PFD in the same location and it looks like it never moved.

Whenever you want to look at an engine parameter in flight, just hit the SWAP button and the EMS page replaces the MAP page without affecting the PFD page. Hit the SWAP button again and the MAP page replaces the EMS page again without affecting the PFD page.

Just before landing, press the SWAP button so the Pilot display has PFD and EMS pages (50/50) while Co-Pilot display has PFD and MAP (50/50). Now the needed information for landing, taxi and engine shut down is displayed in front of the pilot. At this point the Pilot doesn't really need MAP page information anymore and has good shutdown information on the EMS page.

AND it gives you a "pseudo portrait layout" in a side by side format. It works really well for me. Here is a photo of us departing Hunter AAF (KSVN) during actual IFR using this combination.
2021 Panel.jpg

Remember... only you can decide what is best for you.

:cool:
 
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Just to be clear... in Canada there is no bickering over ADSB weather/traffic. There is NONE planned to be offered by Nav Canada. Forget that dream.

The bickering comes from Nav Canada wanting to stuff their space-based ADSB system down our throats, trying to force a mandate for Diversity transponders so they can cut down their radar station replacement and maintenance budgets. Unlike in the US where there was the "if you do us a favor by equipping to make ATC easier, we'll give you a reward in the form of up-linked weather and traffic data", here in Canada we users will pay and get precious little in return.

I mainly want ADS-B because I live near the US border. I plan on flying through US airspace quite frequently, and see the benefit.

I also want to "future-proof" as much as possible for whatever ADS-B does eventually get shoved down our throats in Canada.

[Rant]
They promised us increased ATC services, especially in northern/remote locations where RADAR doesn't reach very low. But the other hand doesn't have enough controllers to keep up with the ATC services they already provide. So how do they plan on increasing service then?
[Rant over]

I personally would not purchase an EFIS which did not give the ability to display ADSB traffic - with a dual-frequency ADSB-IN receiver we can see ADSB-OUT equipped traffic in our local area without having any ground-based uplink services.

Does the HDX and Skyview Classic both offer this capability?

Let me ask you to consider a very personal question... How old are you, and how good are your eyes? Improvements in screen resolution (HDX vs Classic) will make them easier to see. BUT as we age we still benefit from bigger print on the screen. A 10" HDX would be the way to help future-proof your cockpit from that undeniable human aging phenomenon.

Age 33 in 3 weeks. Eyes are 20/20...for now. Hopefully next year I can go to OSH to see/play with some of these screens and make a more informed decision.
 
Given the stage of your build (from your signature line) I would suggest waiting until Oshkosh next year would be not just prudent but pretty much mandatory. Build the supporting structure so it will provide maximum usable panel space, then move on. Buying avionics early is a bad plan.

I recently looked at an RV which is very close to final inspection. I looked at that same airplane a decade ago with its screens lit up. A lot has happened in the intervening decade but that airplane's panel will be a decade old on its first flight. Best to avoid this situation if you can.

As for your rant, well, let's just say that I agree that Nav Canada is NOT looking out for the interests of general aviation. I've often thought the corporation should have been named Nav (Air) Canada after its patron saint airline customer.
 
Given the stage of your build (from your signature line) I would suggest waiting until Oshkosh next year would be not just prudent but pretty much mandatory. Build the supporting structure so it will provide maximum usable panel space, then move on. Buying avionics early is a bad plan.
^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^

This is probably the best advice you can get for install, IMHO.

:cool:
 
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Haha, I need to change my signature. Fuselage is at the "porcupine stage" now. That's a lot of holes to drill!

Canadian_JOY, you're right! Nav (air) Canada is a great way to explain the problem. They don't even care about me, the little prop-job (Dash-8) flying around the Canadian north for a living. I could share stories, but Christmas is 5 months away and we wouldn't want to miss that.

First flight is still years away. Expecting HDX to be getting old, but still available when my RV8 flies. Hopefully 2026.
 
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