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Removeable Fwd Top Skin?

csdominey

Active Member
Patron
I am having a lot of difficulty fitting the completed instrument panel into the F803 bulkhead due to the all the wiring and hoses I have wanted to get into the project. Looks like I am going to have to remove the top forward fuse skin in order to sort out all the bits and pieces fouling against each other.
Has anyone attached this top skin with screws? The biggest problem I see is all the glass work for the windscreen fairings. Perhaps not doable.
Still, if anyone has got a good solution for RV8 instrument panel access, I would like to hear what you did. My initial plan to include extra wiring length in order to have a service loop is not working out real well. Thanks.
Cliff Dominey
RV8A N977CD reserved
Alvin, Texas
 
I did as much of the wiring as I could before I closed the top skin. I also created an access panel at forward baggage compartment so I can work in the avionic bay after I closed the skin. I hate having to get back in there now to do wiring with everything button up. Not hard but more PIA. This is why I am delaying the final wiring just from the thought of it.

I am not sure the wiring in confined space is more PIA than customizing a removeable upperskin, with a removeable windscreen as well.

Good luck.
 
I debated this for a while. I have some remote boxes in my panel (comm 2, xpdr, audio panel), and if I did it again, I’d extend the harnesses and mount some of them aft. I can’t imagine installing the panel with the skin in place. I know shops do it all the time on flying airplanes, but for a rookie like me it would be the stuff of nightmares. I’m essentially done with the panel, I’m now running heater and engine control cables while I still have the top skin off.

Future access had me concerned, even though I was very careful to mount everything in such a way that I could get to it. As it is, I had to mount a couple of boxes to the baggage bulkhead, so cutting a removable hatch there was out. I ended up installing two external access panels on the sides of the upper skin. Very happy with the access they provide, even above and beyond the access I get with the G3X Touch screen removed. Sealing for the elements will be a consideration, but I’ll cross that bridge when I’m closer to flying.
 

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Knowing I would need to remove the panel many times throughout the life of the project, I installed all the skins first, and then did the panel. I can remove the panel and put it on my lap and get access to the stuff behind. Sure, it takes planning to ensure that I've got the tools and stuff I need, or I need to cleco it back in place and climb out of the cockpit.

I can guarantee you will need to get access to stuff behind the panel for repair or upgrade, so make it as easy as possible for yourself. Installing the stuff behind the panel and then closing the top skin is probably going to cause you or the next owner some headaches.

Access holes can help, for sure, but so far I have not needed any. The RV-8 area behind the panel is very small, so getting your arm in there from the seat is easy.
 
I have an RV-8 panel with a 10" G3X Touch. I do most smaller maintenance items by merely removing the G3X screen, which is further convenienced by not having the GSU 25 attached to the display screen back. On bigger jobs like upgrade work or avionics harnessing I remove the whole major center panel. It takes probably half an hour between dropping avionic trays and dropping circuit breaker busses after removing their nuts. I can sit in the seat and work the harnessing and LRUs without breaking my back trying to squirrel my way while resting my head on rudder pedals. If adding a circuit breaker or USB port to the panel I can be more precise with measurements and placard labels on the bench than when it is in the airplane. It is really worth it to pull the panel. On a few rare occasions I have removed the floor of the front baggage area to gain even more access to some deeper mounted items like the TCW backup battery and fuel pump.
 
Guys, I am the third owner of a "legacy" round dial RV-8 that we are upgrading to Dynon. I've literally spent days identifying, untying, and disconnecting from the buses wires that are no longer required. Then, I've got to reverse the process and put in the new Dynon harnesses. Thankfully, our airplane has the baggage area access door but I absolutely lust at the thought of being able to do this with the deck open. Hang in there. If this cranky, old and fat seventy year old can do this, you guys will make it too!!!!!
 
, I installed all the skins first, and then did the panel.

I did most of the wiring before the top skin was riveted. Some of the connections are no longer easy to reach when the whole thing is buttoned up. Oh well. It's educational
 
I debated this for a while. I have some remote boxes in my panel (comm 2, xpdr, audio panel), and if I did it again, I’d extend the harnesses and mount some of them aft. I can’t imagine installing the panel with the skin in place. I know shops do it all the time on flying airplanes, but for a rookie like me it would be the stuff of nightmares. I’m essentially done with the panel, I’m now running heater and engine control cables while I still have the top skin off.

Future access had me concerned, even though I was very careful to mount everything in such a way that I could get to it. As it is, I had to mount a couple of boxes to the baggage bulkhead, so cutting a removable hatch there was out. I ended up installing two external access panels on the sides of the upper skin. Very happy with the access they provide, even above and beyond the access I get with the G3X Touch screen removed. Sealing for the elements will be a consideration, but I’ll cross that bridge when I’m closer to flying.

Assuming that skin is structural, how did you ensure the structural integrity of the fuselage skin? I think the AC43.13 covers structural panels somewhere, but I could be mistaken. I like your idea, and may copy it.
 
AC43-13B has a section on skin repairs, but nothing I could find on inspection panels. I used this as a guide, so the doublers, stiffeners and inspection panels are all .032. I originally hadn’t planned on the angle stiffeners but added them based on the diagram in AC43-13. I added a pic showing one of the stiffeners clecoed to the doubler. There are 4 total.

I may yet double the rivets, but I’m undecided. That will give me just over 3D spacing - the min spec’d in AC43-13 (IOW, the max rivets allowed).
 
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I think when I do a whole new panel, I'm going to arrange for easy access either by:

A center panel that is hinged at the bottom

or

A center panel whose connections are simple to disconnect and remove the entire panel.
 
I think when I do a whole new panel, I'm going to arrange for easy access either by:

A center panel that is hinged at the bottom

or

A center panel whose connections are simple to disconnect and remove the entire panel.

Exactly, a center panel that comes out of the plane in ~15 minutes to be done on the bench. Not hard, it just takes some planning. The trick is to divide everything into what stays in the plane and what comes out.

The center panel is connected to the rest of the plane via three D connectors and one Molex, and the SkyView Network D connectors that go to the panel mounted displays.

For me, absolutely no need to cut holes for access panels - and never on my back with my head under the panel.
Carl
 
I think when I do a whole new panel, I'm going to arrange for easy access either by:

A center panel that is hinged at the bottom
.


You can unscrew the bottom two screws and temporary twist in a safety wire through the screw holes on each side. They will act like a hinge after all the top screws are removed. After all the screws are removed, use another length of safety wire to hold the panel horizontal as you work on it. The panel will then be supported by the twisted safety wires and lay flat, semi attached to the panel frame. This way you don't have to keep the panel on your lap as you work
 
Exactly, a center panel that comes out of the plane in ~15 minutes to be done on the bench. Not hard, it just takes some planning. The trick is to divide everything into what stays in the plane and what comes out.

The center panel is connected to the rest of the plane via three D connectors and one Molex, and the SkyView Network D connectors that go to the panel mounted displays.

For me, absolutely no need to cut holes for access panels - and never on my back with my head under the panel.
Carl

Aren't there static and dynamic pitot ports connected to the center panel boxes?
 
You can unscrew the bottom two screws and temporary twist in a safety wire through the screw holes on each side. They will act like a hinge after all the top screws are removed. After all the screws are removed, use another length of safety wire to hold the panel horizontal as you work on it. The panel will then be supported by the twisted safety wires and lay flat, semi attached to the panel frame. This way you don't have to keep the panel on your lap as you work

Superb idea!. That alleviates the need to install a hinge, and makes it simple to remove the center panel entirely if necessary.

Maybe re-usable cable ties instead of safety wire for the bottom two holes?
 
Superb idea!.
Maybe re-usable cable ties instead of safety wire for the bottom two holes?

Yes, if you can insert the cable ties into the small #8 platenuts. Using the safety wires, I don't have to worry about putting a lot of weight on the panel because the wires can withstand all that.
 
Aren't there static and dynamic pitot ports connected to the center panel boxes?

No, the SkyView system has the dual ADHARS modules mounted just aft of the rear baggage compartment. But, if a builder wants to add a stand alone AV-30 or such, disconnecting the associated pitot and static lines to remove the AV-30 with the panel is simple.

Carl
 
Another thing I know is that when I re-do the panel, I'm going to first build a center section out of plexiglass and build everything out. When it's all finalized I will then cut the metal center section.
 
I checked with Vans, and they nix the idea of using screws. Back to the drawing board.
I may be able to solve this problem with just hanging a temporary shelf from the longerons so that the panel is at the correct height, but 6" or so out from the final bulkhead position. With the top skin off, I should be able to see and correct all the hoses and wires that are giving me problems. Once I can see the panel go in and out on the shelf, then I can be sure that it will do so FINALLY when the top skin is reinstalled.
Pretty simple. Had lost track of how hard the panel would be to manage with all the toys (round dials for me) I have in it.
 
Keep in mind that with the size of screens that most people use now a days (even in an RV-8), removing just 4 screws and pulling the screen out of the panel (takes less than 2 minutes) provides a rather large opening in the panel to work through.
If the location and mounting of LRU's is well planed, there can be relatively good access to most everything you would need to.
 
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