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Transitioning to RV-3

RayJr

Active Member
Hello,

I'm in the process of buying a flying RV-3. All of my flying experience so have has been in 172.

Any tips on how to go about preparing to take on the single seat beauty ?

Thanks in advance
 
Everything that Greg said!

The RV-3 is a push at to fly if you have tailwheel time - not just an endorsement, but additional hours beyond that, just to have a broader experience base. That’s for take-off and landing.

Getting the Rv transition training will prepare you for the wide speed range - an RV-3 is going to feel blisteringly fast to someone who has only flown a 172, and you’ll need to up your gains a bit….and you can do that in any short-wing RV.

Paul
 
Congrats on the new RV-3! As said above, tailwheel experience and transition training is a must.

Here are four articles by Van himself that may be of interest to new RV pilots. I included the nose gear-related article for completeness.



BTW, Some folks will argue that transition training is not a "must". That may be true for a small segment of the pilot population. But consider this information from Mike Seager (who has given the most transition training in RV's, bar none) when questioned by Van himself:

i-sHbtCB9-M.jpg
 
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Here in the US your insurance company would set minimum tailwheel hours before they’d cover you. Not sure about Canada.
 
Congrats on the new RV-3! As said above, tailwheel experience and transition training is a must.

Here are four articles by Van himself that may be of interest to new RV pilots. I included the nose gear-related article for completeness.



Thanks for posting these. I'm not able to access the How to land part 2 article though. That link is to a google drive as opposed to here on VAF.
 
Thanks for posting these. I'm not able to access the How to land part 2 article though. That link is to a google drive as opposed to here on VAF.

I modified the link in my post above and it should be accessible to all. If not, shoot me a PM with your email address and I'll send you a copy.
 
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Thanks for all the tips. We don't have a tail wheel endorsement here in Canada and tail wheel specific training is pretty rare. All the transition folks there in the list are in the USA. I could make that journey if need be. Thanks again
 
Thanks for all the tips. We don't have a tail wheel endorsement here in Canada and tail wheel specific training is pretty rare. All the transition folks there in the list are in the USA. I could make that journey if need be. Thanks again

Looks like Bruce Bohannon is not officially a transition instructor, but he does a lot of tailwheel instruction. In a Legend Cub if you need the signoff, and then in an RV-8 once you're tailwheel signed off.

Bruce Bohannon
(281) 889-8078
 
Even if you can get some RV time in an A model and tailwheel time in another brand, it would make a big difference. Transitions become easier the more experience you have and tailwheel airplanes have pecularities.

Have fun!
 
Tail wheel

Before i bought and flew my Rv-3, i got my transition training and tail wheel endorsement in an RV-6. Invaluable experience. The V speeds where close. At least close enough to not be completely green on my maiden voyage.

Get the training somehow!
 
Congratulations on your new RV3!!

My N=1:

I came to RV3 flying from several dozens of hours in an RV4. That part in my view is a no-brainer. They are not the same aircraft, but close enough. Certainly a lot closer in experience than the -6 or -7.

I came to RV4 flying with no conversion training. First flight in the aircraft was solo. I did have 750+ tailwheel hours though. Most of these in my Jodel. Same landing speed, slower cruise speed. The Jodel has a C/S prop, the RV4 didn't. Main difference is that the RV will float a lot more on landing. No biggie.

My first RV4 flight years prior (one single flight in another -4) came after some 100 hours in the Jodel. There too, that flight was solo, and I had little difficulty and LOVED the experience.

The Jodel before that came after some 5 hours of tailwheel training.

I think I am a decent aviator, but I am no Bob Hoover. Not in a million years. RVs are not difficult aircraft to fly. I've since trained on a T6. Now THAT is an aircraft that commands respect and taught me some humble pie . The RV in comparison is a pussycat.

Would I recommend getting in an RV-3 with just C172 time? No. Definitely not. Get tailwheel training. ANY tailwheel training. And build some hours.

Speed-wise, the RV CAN be fast, but doesn't have to be. If you find yourself behind the aircraft, throttle way back. It will fly a Supercub speeds if you wat it to. And for landing, your C172 speeds are probably bang on.

Enjoy!! These are fun little aircraft...
 
I also vote for Bruce Bohannon for tailwheel instruction. He co-owned an RV-3 for many years and is very familiar with flying one. He also has the only RV-8 configured for full dual controls. If you have no tailwheel time, he'll probably start you in the Cub, transition you into the RV-8 and if you get comfortable with that, you will probably have no problem with the RV-3. Here's a link to my video of Bruce's RV-3; I was there when he sold it. "Shawn gets into Trouble"
https://youtu.be/WuUZW3MZkAs
 
Hello,

I'm in the process of buying a flying RV-3. All of my flying experience so have has been in 172.

Any tips on how to go about preparing to take on the single seat beauty ?

Thanks in advance

Hi Ray,
I just bought a RV-3, I have some three hundred hours of tailwheel and my first flight was quite challenging.
I can tell you that the RV-3 has nothing to do with a honest C172: controls are ten time more responsive, power/weight ratio is probably 2-3 times greater, visibility in the flare phase is almost zero so you need to "feel" what is going on. Take off requires tailwheel experience, landing requires tailwheel experience, you need to fly respecting parameters (on a 172 it is not mandatory...). In other words if you try to fly a RV-3 without the right training you have a very high chance to overcontrol and become a statistic or to make big damages to your aircraft.
If I were you I would follow a specific training, in some hours you can be ready to enjoy this very nice bird.
 
Canadian insurance

When I bought my RV3 here in Canada, the insurance company wanted me to get 10 hours of dual on it with a CFI before giving me coverage. :eek:

Here in the US your insurance company would set minimum tailwheel hours before they’d cover you. Not sure about Canada.
 
Trnsitioning to a -3

I came to RV3 flying from several dozens of hours in an RV4. That part in my view is a no-brainer. They are not the same aircraft, but close enough. Certainly a lot closer in experience than the -6 or -7.

Agreed. I would get time in a -4 or, if not available, -8 (NOT a -A!) to get used to flying from the center of the airplane. Amazingly enough, it is quite different to be flying off-center if you are accustomed to flying inline.

I came to RV4 flying with no conversion training. First flight in the aircraft was solo. I did have 750+ tailwheel hours though.

My transition to SuzieQ was flying for 3-4 hours with Dean Hall flying from the back seat of his -4. It was amazingly informative as to what to look for and do and, maybe more importantly, some things NOT to do. I am a relatively high-time tail wheel pilot which helped as I new what the site picture in tail wheel aircraft was like. Back seat of a -J-3? Oh; is there a runway up there....?:D

I think I am a decent aviator, but I am no Bob Hoover. Not in a million years. RVs are not difficult aircraft to fly. I've since trained on a T6. Now THAT is an aircraft that commands respect and taught me some humble pie . The RV in comparison is a pussycat.

Agreed again. My first flight as front seat PIC in a T-6 was aerobatic instruction. I flew to the airport where that was in SuzieQ. Talk about transition training! I took off in the T-6 without any control input from the instructor. That airplane is a tad heavier than a -4! Coming down on the back side of a loop: there is a LOT of inertia in a T-6! Getting back in SuzieQ and flying back home after was like flying the Gossamer Albatross (Google that...!).

Would I recommend getting in an RV-3 with just C172 time? No. Definitely not. Get tailwheel training. ANY tailwheel training. And build some hours.

Again agreed. But get some RV time. You will find the controls on an RV are MUCH more sensitive than anything you have flown before and that takes some getting used to. The sensitivity of the controls are one of the things that makes these such fun airplanes to fly but takes some getting used to. I fly SuzieQ with a VERY light touch. Have you ever been in a helicopter? Sort of like that kind of light touch. Fingers not hand.

Sit in your -3 a lot to get used to where things are and the site picture of tail-down. When I did the test-flying of SuzieQ, I put a thin piece of pinstriping tape on the canopy where the horizon was tail down. I also initially had a piece with tail-level so I had a reference for landing. I left the tail-down piece on for some time......;)

This will be the best airplane you have ever flown......:)
 
Thanks for all the tips. We don't have a tail wheel endorsement here in Canada and tail wheel specific training is pretty rare. All the transition folks there in the list are in the USA. I could make that journey if need be. Thanks again

I flew my first RV-3 with 100hrs total time in my logbook and 7hrs on a fresh-ink tailwheel endorsement and one back seat ride in an RV-4 without rear controls.

Here's my 0.02 above and beyond what others have said.

- Get your tailwheel proficiency in something, I know Flight Chops got it, you can too!

- All RVs fly great and they all slow down quite nicely, but landing a tailwheel RV is different than most vintage tailwheels (next few points)

- RVs have very bouncy landing gear, all spring, no dampening. So you need to kiss the runway if you want to land well. So get good at that.

- RVs don't stall in a three-point attitude. The stall is very high AoA, you will land tail-first if you attempt to bury the stick in your lap like you're taught on a cub/champ. Then it bounces (A LOT) and you're just along for the ride. Yeah, we've all done it, and you will too eventually!

- Generally, I avoid 3-pts and my short field option is a tail-low-two-point. The numbers are roughly... 60 over the fence, look for 50-55 in the round out and you'll touch down somewhere around 48-ish.

- Take the wheel pants off and get comfortable on grass first, it's a lot easier.

Good Luck, PM me if you have questions!
 
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Congratulations on your new purchase! You're gonna love your new RV3. I've flown my RV3b about 70 hours now and as you mentioned, finding someone to transition you to tail wheel isn't the easiest thing to do here in Canada.
I'm in B.C. and after 5 long months of waxing my new RV3, managed to get an hour in a RV6, most of which was high speed taxiing and a few circuits. The transponder in my C-150 crapped out, so could no longer fly into Vancouver airspace and continue transition time in the RV6. The RV6 had better visibility over the cowling than the RV3.
More time passed and eventually my airport friends took pity and volunteered a Piper PA22 to continue transition training, an aircraft that had been converted to tail wheel. Far more skillful pilots than I noted that the converted Piper was 'squirrelly' on the ground.
Fortunately, because I had no previous tail wheel time wouldn't know the difference between a squirrelly and non squirrely tail dragger and discovered the Piper to be quite manageable.
The most notable difference between tricycle and tail draggers is you cannot have lazy feet in the tail dragger. You need to keep your feet much more active on roll out, not allowing the airplane to deviate from the runway centerline even a little bit.
After 3 hours of circuits in the Piper, spread out over several days, my brave transition instructor announced it was time to jump in the RV3.
To say I was stressed when I lined the RV3 up on the runway would be an understatement. In any case I learned quite a bit during the first takeoff. The RV3 (160 hp) has a pretty high power to weight ratio and if you make the same mistake I did and pick the tail up adruptly during the takeoff roll, you'll discover some pretty serious P factor. Also, you'll discover just how light and responsive the controls are. In any case, I used up pretty much the whole width of our 75' wide paved runway. It was quite an exciting takeoff and most entertaining to the peanut gallery. Much more controlled takeoffs can be had by 'easing' the tail up right around the same time the throttle is almost all the way forward. At the same time the tail is eased up, you'll be leading with right rudder.
You'll discover that the RV3 is very significantly more responsive than a 172 and much lighter on the controls.
I suggest before attempting your first landing to spend time feeling out the controls and at altitude, gentle maneuvering at 70 mph airspeeds ( final approach speed for me). also it would be useful to do simulated overshoots with full flaps at altitude.
In my case, I did several intentional overshoots before my first landing. My first landing was note worthy and earned me the nickname 'Pogo'. Though I had taken the time to make a mental note prior to take off, of the sight picture I would be looking for during the flare, things didn't work out so great on first few attempts to land.
I've discovered that it is best that if you get more than a small bounce, it's best to power up and try again.
Occasionally I've gotten lucky and had very smooth gentle landings. More commonly, I get a gentle (sometimes less gentle) bounce on landing and rather than try to manage or control a bounce, is much better to ease the stick full back, hold it back and let the plane settle itself onto the runway. Up to this point, I've only done 3 point landings and I attribute this to 1000 hours of tricycle time, 500 in a Mooney and 500 in C-150. It appears it is ingrained yoke (stick) back on touch down and roll out. One of these days I'll try 'checking forward' on the stick upon touchdown and trying out that landing technique.
As far as getting insurance for the plane, I had insurance companies wanting X amount of dual hours on type and had to explain it to be a bit awkward and uncomfortable to do in the RV3.
The route I took was to insure only for hull not in motion, no problem to be legal to fly and no transition training requirements. It takes about 20 min to get Marsh insurance online.
If you decide to taxi around for awhile before getting flying, I highly suggest you take the wheel pants off. I get's REAL hot inside those wheel pants if you're working the brakes a lot and will damage something eventually. Apologies for the winded reply, but hope it helps you safely getting into the air in your new to you RV3.
I've posted other (even more winded) experiences about my RV3b on this most excellent forum and may be useful to help you avoid some of my mistakes.
I'm pleased to report that my nickname Pogo has not stuck... If you have any questions, please feel free to send a message.
Cheers
 
Generally, bounced taildragger landings (although the RV3 has partly having the springy landing gear to blame) come from too high a landing speed. She's simply not yet ready to stop flying. Too much lift remaining in the wings.

Tail-low wheel landings are the worst - You are slowly sinking until the mains touch the ground. What happens next? Unless checked aggressively with tail-up elevator, the plane keeps sinking. Only thing is now the mains keep the front part of the plane up. And so it is the tail that is doing the only sinking, increasing the angle of attack of your wings. And if your speed is still up, this means extra lift, earning you the nickname of Pogo.

70 mph as an approach speed sounds about right, but make sure that that is not the speed with which you try to touch down. Practice a lot of stalls higher up and note the significant nose-up attitude that you can still fly with pre-stall. These planes need less speed to fly than is intuitive, and any mph too fast on landing makes for more hopping and bouncing....
 
I think you are absolutely correct about too high a landing speed contributes to the bounces I still experience on landing. Though I've done a lot of stalls and slow flight, find the sink rate to be quite significant if I approach to land at less than 70 mph in an attempt to kiss the runway at the stall speed of 51 mph.
During my flight training years ago in C-150's and 172's, my instructor was fond of yarding the yoke back right after I had landed, only to have the airplane become airborne again. It was his way of making it clear the wing should be fully stalled as the mains settled gently on the pavement.
For me, the little RV3 is a bit more of a challenge to land, as it is VERY responsive and light on the controls, as well as my using peripheral vision more so than the over the cowling sight picture to gauge my flare height. I found the tricycle geared airplanes, with such good forward visibility, to be easier to more accurately gauge flare height and seldom if ever bounced on landing.
My landings are a work in progress and although they are safe, certainly have room for improvement. Eventually I will be try the wheel landings and may discover improved landings with the much improved forward visibility?
The original poster is in for a very pleasant surprise when he gets his RV3 in the air!
The only other advice I can offer OP RayJr when flying the RV3 is, like a
Mooney, you cannot reduce power in the RV3 and expect it to slow down and descend like the Cessna you are used to. If you do not begin your decent to circuit height and speed far enough out, you will arrive too high and at warp factor 3 into the circuit. I know this for fact, transitioning from a C-150 to a Mooney.
Also, don't try to salvage anything other than a landing with very small bounces. Stick brought slowly full back will settle a slightly bouncy landing nicely. I didn't hesitate to power up and go around if I felt even remotely uncomfortable with my touchdown.
I'm still learnin' the tail dragger thing... and fortunately the RV3 is very forgiving if you keep in mind that it does exactly what you want it to do, a lot quicker and more precisely than the Cessna.

regards, aka Pogo ; )
 
If you want to land slow you will have to add power to control the sink. Excess speed in the pattern can be reduced with very steep banks at base etc.
Mine was easy to land with a bit more speed and fly it on for a wheel landing. You can hold enough down elevator for fast taxi and see over the nose. Three points have to be just right and I found them much harder than wheel landings.
 
RV3B

I bought my RV3B 19 months ago and have 180 hrs so far. Prior to that I had over 500 hrs in a 6A, 15 hrs in a 6 and 3.5 hrs in. 7. When I first bought the 3 the engine idled at 800 rpm on the ground. For the first month I flew it like this and didn’t realize the idle was way too high. I had never had problems landing in any plane or in any xwinds. I would have to do 2-3 go around for every landing. I did notice the plane had to come in at a very shallow approach. The airspeed was difficult to bleed off and floated down the rwy, very easy to bounce. I nearly sold the plane after a month. Luckily I posted my problem on the forum and was told about the idle. I lowered the idle to around 550 rpm. Boy what a difference, night and day.

Within the first month I realized not to lift the tail off the ground too quickly, especially in a left xwind. Between the xwind n p-factor you have no rudder authority at low speeds and you will weather vane into the wind so keep some back pressure and let the airspeed lift the tail off the ground. Also line the plane up off center of the rwy opposite of a xwind so incase you weather vane towards the wind you have more real estate.

I mostly do wheel landings with full flaps. My airspeed on final is 85mph. By the time I flare and close to touch down the speed is around the upper 60’s. The sink rate exponentially increases fairly quick below the lower to mid 60’s. I try not to use power for the following reason. If you ever lose an engine you need to nail the landing without needing to add power. If you always 3 pt land you know that you always need to add power to arrest the decent rate.

Also realize if you lose an engine your glide distance is 2/3 at best. Ask me how I know. I love my 3B. It definitely is a fun plane, it climbs like crazy even at altitude. At 8000’ I can climb around 1200 ft/min compared to my 6A at 400-500 ft/min with the same hp, 160.
 
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If you want to land slow you will have to add power to control the sink.

No, you can land slow without adding power just fine, I think maybe you meant approach slow. Slower than 1.3 Vso in an RV-3 yeah you might want to add a small touch of power on approach.
 
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When I bought my RV3 here in Canada, the insurance company wanted me to get 10 hours of dual on it with a CFI before giving me coverage. :eek:
Did they have any suggestions as to how you were to accomplish dual instruction in a single-seat airplane?
 
What I’ve learned about flying the -3 in 60hrs

Hello.
First post, long time lurker.
What I’ve learned a out flying the -3, or “How I’ve learned to love the slip”
Mine has an O-320 with a 3 blade Catto.

Transitioned to the -3 with about 10 hours TW time immediately after completing my TW endorsement. I tried to find someone with an -8 to get a few dual hours in. Just ended up hopping into it and going.
Before I flew it for the first time I was really intimidated. Turns out that the -3 is super easy to fly, it won’t lie to you.
Also super easy to overcontrol, that took some getting use to. Every uncomfortable moment I’ve had in the -3 has been because it did exactly what I commanded it to do.
Cpt. Paul says “Keep it straight, don’t let it drift, fly your airspeeds, you’ll be fine”

Taxi- Nothing different or special here. A little rudder goes a long way.

Takeoff- Well behaved and straightforward. Seems to not require very much releasing of back pressure to get the tail up. I tend to advance throttle a lot more slowly then in most aircraft I’ve flown. My right leg has become very strong. Be really conscious of your xwind inputs. Everything happens really fast.

Climb/enroute/decent- The -3 seems to really like climbing when there is power. With the O-320 and 3-blade that trait is exacerbated. Inital climb out for me is somewhere around 100mph and 2000-2500 fpm (I think, don’t really keep records). It’s easy to blow right past altitudes. I throttle back after about 300-400ft agl. Almost always use a cruise climb. Took some getting use to.
Enroute it flies like any hersey bar winged animal. Really easy to overspeed though. Handles turbulence very well for it’s size.
Plan decents well. That Vne creeps up on ya.

Landing- This is where the it requires some acclimation, when you get it dialed in though you’ll be surprised at how well the -3 handles winds. If one were to draw out the L/D curve for the -3 it would be very steep at the low end of the envelope. There is a very fine line between decent and falling piano, might just be the heavy engine in mine, ymmv. Be ready to work the throttle. I generally slip every landing, my patterns are tight. I get slowed on downwind (sometimes a little s-turn help is needed:), hold the slowing trend in till Vfe, drop my desired flaps, cut the throttle abeam the numbers, hold a slip through base and final at or near my final approach speed 70-80ish. This allows me to stay out of the workload of having to adjust power and lets me approach more slowly knowing I have altitude to trade for energy. I maintain enough energy in the system (altitude/kinetic) to work my angle and always be able to safely land without adding any more. Think autorotation. The visibility is so many betters too. 3-pointers are not my preferred method, into small grass strips I’ll do it but not enjoyable. It loves tail low wheelies IMHO. I don’t pin the tail immediately, I fly it with the tail just a hare off the ground till I’ve got most of the energy out of the situation. I balance braking (if required) against the elevator with the wheel just off the surface. To me this gives the most feedback and controllability on rollout. The springs are more springy than most, so always be ready to react to a bounce if you don’t get it just right. Always be ready to go-around.

As with all aircraft, especially TW “fly it to the hangar”.

Transitioning to the -3 wasn’t as daunting of a task as I had expected. Every flight I learn a bit more.

Keep attention “outside” and the -3 won’t surprise you.
 
Go see Bruce Bohannon. He’ll get you TW proficient in his Legend Cub in a couple of hours. Then fly his dual control RV-8 for a few hours. If you listen he’ll be able to tell (and show) you everything you need to be safe and learn the rest on your own. Cheapest insurance I ever purchased. And it’s warmer in TX than Canada this time of year :)
 
I can add my story. I feel fortunate and grateful to have some RV-3 time in my logbook.

In my case, I was finishing my RV-7 in early 2012. Hadn't flown for years and had no tailwheel endorsement. I hired an instructor/friend and spent 4+ hours in his C172, after which he signed me off and I went down the road to a flight school that offered tailwheel instruction. 15 hours later, flying a Citabria, I had that endorsement. A few weeks after that I spent 3 days with Mike Seager in the transition trainer RV-7. The saying is to not get behind in an airplane. First couple of takeoffs in that made me feel like I wasn't just left behind, I was mentally still standing on the ground, watching. Mike is good though, and he eventually cleared me as safe to fly mine.

Got home, another friend and then-hangar neighbor had an RV-3 (still does). He insisted that I fly it so I could stay proficient in the weeks between flying with Mike and my first flight in my -7. Not without trepidation I crammed myself in his airplane. Pretty weird getting in a single seat airplane, even though intellectually I grasped that most of my flight hours up to that point were solo.

My experience is that you wear an RV-3, you don't just sit in it. But it handled like.. an.. RV. Did some slow flight, simulated approaches, then returned for the real thing. It made a hero out of this low time VFR pilot, with help from high quality training.

The biggest issue for me was the fact that the transition trainer RV-7 is equipped with a constant speed prop, thus a giant air brake. My friend's RV-3 is fixed pitch. After that, manual vs electric flaps. Raising electric flaps is gradual. Raising the manual flaps on a tail low landing dropped the tailwheel instantly, with a bang. Hmm.. take it easy next time. It was a hoot, and I'm still fortunate and grateful that I get to fly it occasionally, 10 years and 1200+ hours on my RV-7 later, to mix things up.
 
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