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Wing fit

Did not look

John,
I did not look for damage. But I do not believe the tool is powerful enough to cause damage. If there were damage, I think that it would be noticed when inserting the wing pin. But the pin slid right in with no binding. Some guys pound the pin in with a hammer. I think that if anything is going to damage the brass bushings, forcing the wing pin in would do it because the tapered end of the pin has a steep pitch.
Even though the tool is sold for expanding tail pipes, the user reviews that I read said that the tool only works on thin pipe. One can control the expanding force by varying the torque on the wrench. When the wrench starts getting hard to turn, stop and try putting the wing pin in the other hole, then tighten the tool more if needed.
The bottom line is that I do not know if the tool causes damage or not. So use at your own risk. I do not plan to take the wings off very often. I do not think that the tool will hurt anything with infrequent use, especially if excessive force is not used on the wrench.
By the way, Van's included a "go-no go" gauge with the kit for testing the wing spar bushing holes. But I never did see any directions for its use.
Joe
 
Directions for use of the go-no go gauge are in the conditional inspection section, think Chapter 3 of the Maintenance Instructions.

Just ran across it with my 1st conditional inspection.
 
Thanks Marty, I've been scratching my poor bald head over that thing! I just went through all the "G" sections looking for it. So it doesn't get used for a year........... Gotcha!
 
That tool is a great idea, John. I had another idea but have not tried it. How about a pipe expanding tool like this?
Harbor Freight has them for $10.
http://www.harborfreight.com/small-tail-pipe-expander-37352.html
J.C.Whitney has them for $34.
http://www.jcwhitney.com/muffler-and-pipe-expansion-tool/p2004125.jcwx?skuId=170116&filterid=c21437j1
Joe
image_478.jpg

Joe Hi,
This is Doug in IL is this HF tool still recommended?
 
I still use the pipe expander. I hesitate to recommend it because it could damage the wing pin bearings if over tightened. Another option is to use very long cargo straps between the two wingtips. With the canopy open, the cargo straps pass over the top of the cockpit. Tightening the straps pulls the wings inward. It also helps to lift the wingtips slightly, just enough to remove the stress at inboard end of the spars. If installing the wings solo, saw horses can be put under the wingtips to support them. Look into the spar attachment holes to determine if the wing needs to move in or up or down.
 
Yet another option - -

I like the tailpipe expander method, but have also done the following.

Put a strong 'C' clamp on the top of each spar INSIDE and use a tie down ratchet to pull them together. Very fast and easy.
 
I like the tailpipe expander method, but have also done the following.

Put a strong 'C' clamp on the top of each spar INSIDE and use a tie down ratchet to pull them together. Very fast and easy.

John, so does Strong C clamp mean just slap em on and muscle them down tight however so they don?t slide off when being pulled against each other. Like wrench tight?
 
'C' clamp method - -

I just put the 'C' clamps on tight so they don't move ( thus H D ). You will get a little surface mark, but nothing serious. I then use a ratchet type tie-down between them ( all on the inside ), and it does not take a lot of pull to get them in enough to get pins in. Fairly fast and simple tools most already have. I don't have a pic of doing it.
 
Holy crapolla! Just got back from the hanger after trying to put the wings on so I could use the plane for a trip tomorrow.. 2 hours later no joy! It was about 57 degrees and no amount of pushing/pulling would allow me to slide the pins in.. The wing gasket was extremely stiff, and I’m probably only 1/8” from being able to slide in the pins. Grrrrr...

I like the idea of the c-clamp idea and will give it a try after DRIVING 9 hours tomorrow and making a visit to Harbor Freight for another 8" clamp.. :(

Working on my plane is like my old sailboat. Everything takes 4X longer than you first estimate! ��
 
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Another option that works - -

Harbor Freight sells a small tail pipe expander that works fast and easy. The original wing seals did get stiff in cold weather. One wrench and the tailpipe expander are all you need.
 
Yup tail pipe expander works perfect and super fast,its the only thing Ive ever got to work to get my wings on without having to push them and lift on back and forth.Really this makes it super easy!
 
I don't think HF still sells the small expander, only medium and large. The medium is too big. You can still get a small on the internet. When Joe Gores first posted this tip (10 yrs ago?!) I bought a HF small for $9.95. I see they are now more like ~25 on the internet.
 
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Thanks guys. I'll give the expander a try. Found a small one on Amazon and it should be here tomorrow.
 
I use the expander inside a length of plastic silicone sealant tube to protect the bushings. Slit the tube lengthways and cut it down to the right diameter.
 
After reading this resurrected thread I'm wondering about the stub spar fit-up I did during my fuse build. (Wing kit won't be here for another 18 weeks or so). I posted about it in another thread(quoted below), but maybe this is a better spot. Wondering if some of you fine wing-fit experts here could weigh in?

Well, after reading this recently revived old thread: https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=47846, I am once again concerned/unsure about the filing of the stub spars.

Specifically this exchange [Text in brackets are mine]:
In this case, the manual does not say to file on the stub spars if/as needed. [When attaching/fitting the completed wing for the first time]
The only time the manual says to do any filing on these parts is during [fuselage] construction. Even then, it says to do only enough to get a close fit between the parts so that they fully mate together.
Scott, Beg to differ a bit. The general instructions, tell you to remove the machining marks/nubs from the parts to eliminate any stresses. In this case, that is all I did. Yet still needed a small shim.
Maybe in this case, a special instruction in the plans is needed to ensure the builder removes ZERO material from these areas. When I fitted the parts per the plans, they fit just fine. Now I realize, a loose fit here would NOT be detected.

The step says: "File the rear stub spar rounded ends of both wings to closely fit the recessed machined curve of the F-1206C."
I didn't file away extra material all will-nilly, but I was focused on getting the best "closely-fit" I could get, because there was no other guidance given.
The instructions do not stress the importance of removing only the absolute bare minimum necessary.

It's been a while since I did this step, so I can't really say how much I removed, but based on Marty's experience it sounds like any filing here could be too much?

Something else in that thread prompted me to go look at the maintenance manual, which has this to say about the Condition Inspection: "If the W-1207B rear spar doubler has been trimmed too much, the finished airplane may exhibit some play at the rear spar junction. This is usually discovered by hearing a “click” and detecting in/out movement when the wing is installed. Increasing the length of the spar doubler is not possible, so it must be removed and replaced with a different, slightly longer, part."

If this fit is indeed so delicate, then I agree with Marty, it should have been stressed in the KAI.
The other thing here is that there is no mention of using a shim, just says must remove and replace?

I haven't built the wings yet, so I guess I'll just order another set of rear spar stub-doublers, either to just compare my filed parts to, or maybe just toss the old and use the new, being extremely careful during deburring. Thoughts?

And lastly, what about the forward stub, where you are supposed to file the recessed socket to "closely fit" the stub? Is that connection just as finicky?

...Or am I massively overthinking this and should just finish the *&^%! build and then shim if needed? :rolleyes:
 
Wing Fit

I found my left wing fit was loose by standing at the tip and moving the wing tip fore and aft. Any movement can be felt and it is measurable. To fix it, Van's supplies the W-1207 Rear Spar Doubler in 4 oversizes: +25, +35, +45, +55. The numbers are thousands.

The talk about "shims" was back in the early days before the oversize doublers and I would not recommend that at all.

If I were building new wings I would not completely rivet this part until checking for a loose fit. There are ~30 rivets to drill out if you have to replace the part.

i-sDwrfkN-L.jpg


I would just put in a few rivets and cleco the rest of the holes until you can fit the wings and check for play. And it would be best to do this before the wing seal is installed.

i-Z6C33TT-L.jpg


These pictures are from a retro-fit fix but the idea is the same for new build.
 
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Awesome, thanks Tony! The pics are very helpful too. Yeah, I definitely plan to wait until after fit-up to fully rivet that rear stub.

So my front spar stub should be fine and any fore-aft play is addressed solely with a longer rear stub, correct? I was worried I'd have to cleco the entire wing together including skins just to check the front stub.
 
If you are checking the fit without the filet seal installed it may get tighter with the seal installed...
 
I found my left wing fit was loose by standing at the tip and moving the wing tip fore and aft. Any movement can be felt and it is measurable. To fix it, Van's supplies the W-1207 Rear Spar Doubler in 4 oversizes: +25, +35, +45, +55. The numbers are thousands.

The talk about "shims" was back in the early days before the oversize doublers and I would not recommend that at all.

If I were building new wings I would not completely rivet this part until checking for a loose fit. There are ~30 rivets to drill out if you have to replace the part.

i-sDwrfkN-L.jpg


I would just put in a few rivets and cleco the rest of the holes until you can fit the wings and check for play. And it would be best to do this before the wing seal is installed.

i-Z6C33TT-L.jpg


These pictures are from a retro-fit fix but the idea is the same for new build.
Great idea Tony
 
Yup tail pipe expander works perfect and super fast,its the only thing Ive ever got to work to get my wings on without having to push them and lift on back and forth.Really this makes it super easy!

I don't think HF still sells the small expander, only medium and large. The medium is too big. You can still get a small on the internet. When Joe Gores first posted this tip (10 yrs ago?!) I bought a HF small for $9.95. I see they are now more like ~25 on the internet.

+1 for the exhaust expander. Makes it so quick and easy to get the pins in, and no evidence of damage.

Jack

I use the expander inside a length of plastic silicone sealant tube to protect the bushings. Slit the tube lengthways and cut it down to the right diameter.

The expander worked great! I had both wings back on in less than 5 minutes! Just turn the expander until resistance is felt. As long as a person stops when the resistance is felt, I don't think there's much of a chance of doing damage to the bushing.

Now to fix the spar pin light problem that has now developed due to messing around with the pins.... At the hanger I didn't know where the reed switches were located and how it all worked. Now that I have read the KAI's, I guess my next trip will involve moving the pin handles around and see if I can get the reed switches to turn off the light! One step forward, one step back! lol... Thanks again for the suggestion!
 
Spar pin switch upgrade

The reed switches were problematic and were replaced by mechanical switches at some point in time - maybe about 2015. Your serial number is not real early but if it has the reed switches you might consider the mechanical switch upgrade kit. It costs $46 but saves a lot of frustration trying to make the reed switches work consistently.

See Notiification 15-09-15.
 
The reed switches were problematic and were replaced by mechanical switches at some point in time - maybe about 2015. Your serial number is not real early but if it has the reed switches you might consider the mechanical switch upgrade kit. It costs $46 but saves a lot of frustration trying to make the reed switches work consistently.

See Notiification 15-09-15.

Thanks.. I had seen that.. That will likely be a modification later on at my leisure (rainy weekend project) once I get all the safety related things taken care of on my airplane.. Hopefully by just wiggling the handles a little bit closer to the reed switches will get the light turned off for now..
 
I played with the reed switches last night and the light is now off. The builder had the switches mounted on a stack of washers which lowered the switches below the fuselage aluminum. I removed the washers and tried mounting the switches as described in KAI. The switches absolutely wouldn’t sense the magnets when mounted up against the aluminum at the mid-line as described in the KAI. I then added back the stack of washers and moved the switch very close to the spar pin handles, without trying to sense the magnets through the aluminum and now everything works again.. Definitely see the benefit of changing to the push button switches at some point in the future..
 
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