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How to avoid the "EXPERIMENTAL" placard.

TXFlyGuy

Well Known Member
As we are in the paint shop now, how can I legally omit the EXPERIMENTAL placard?

I was told to just insert an "X" into the registration number on the tail...such as: NX15180.

Is this all we need to do?
 
The X is only for old/replica aircraft. It doesnt apply to homebuild like Van's. There is no way to avoid it. You dont have to put it outside the aircraft, it just has to be visible while entering the airplane. I think the experimental sign looks cool.


The whole point of it and other placards are to inform passengers that it's an experimental airplane.
 
The "X" option can be used for RV-3, RV-4, or RV-6. These are considered as "replicas" of aircraft built over 30 years ago. ref: 45.22(b)(ii).

The X does not show up on any paperwork and is not used in communications. It simply replaces the "Experimental" placard.

Unfortunately, I don't think the T-51 qualifies as it is not a "true" P-51 replica. FAA defines a replica as being the same configuration as the original, including size. Personally I don't agree with their definition as to including size. But they didn't ask me.
 
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The "X" option can be used for RV-3, RV-4, or RV-6. These are considered as "replicas" of aircraft built over 30 years ago. ref: 45.22(b)(ii).

The X does not show up on any paperwork and is not used in communications. It simply replaces the "Experimental" placard.

So an example might be a replica Warbird, like a homebuilt 3/4 scale P-51? Where the X could be used and the EXPERIMENTAL placard omitted?

Or an RV-8, with a radial engine that replicates a Hellcat?
 
So an example might be a replica Warbird, like a homebuilt 3/4 scale P-51? Where the X could be used and the EXPERIMENTAL placard omitted?
Or an RV-8, with a radial engine that replicates a Hellcat?

Re-read my post. I have updated it!
 
I feel like there at so many builders that don't want people to know their aircraft is an amateur-build experimental. They call it custom-built, and try to minimize the home-built nature of it. For myself, I am proud to have an EAB aircraft and display that Experimental sticker proudly. Mel noted at my inspection that I could remove the placard and add the X. I may do that one day, but for now, I like it just the way it is.

Just to note, that comment was not directed at the OP, just a general observation.
 
I feel like there at so many builders that don't want people to know their aircraft is an amateur-build experimental. They call it custom-built, and try to minimize the home-built nature of it. For myself, I am proud to have an EAB aircraft and display that Experimental sticker proudly. Mel noted at my inspection that I could remove the placard and add the X. I may do that one day, but for now, I like it just the way it is.

Just to note, that comment was not directed at the OP, just a general observation.

As I have never seen a Warbird with the "EXPERIMENTAL" placard, the desire was to omit it from my replica.
We can live with it if there is no other option.
 
As I have never seen a Warbird with the "EXPERIMENTAL" placard, the desire was to omit it from my replica.
We can live with it if there is no other option.

I believe, IIRC, that most warbirds such as Mustangs, etc., are certificated in the "Limited" category, not "Experimental".
 
Special Airworthiness Certificate
Limited Category

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A limited category special airworthiness certificate is issued to operate surplus military aircraft that have been converted to civilian use under the following conditions:

The aircraft has a limited type certificate.
The aircraft conforms to its type certificate.
The FAA has determined that the aircraft is safe to operate.
Operations may not include carrying passengers or cargo for hire. The FAA may prescribe additional limitations as necessary for safe operation.

FAA Order 8130.2, Airworthiness Certification of Aircraft, contains a list of aircraft models that have been issued limited category type certificates.

https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/airworthiness_certification/sp_awcert/limited/

See p. 8-2 of 8130.2 for a list.
 
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Placard

There is a hairy chested Howard based machine known as ?Mr Dickinson? with a1340 engine and is some bigger than a standard Howard. Somewhat similar to ?Mr Mulligan.? His placard probably wouldn?t meet FAA standards but to paraphrase the placard he says this aircraft was built by a qualified person with knowledge of aircraft construction methods and the knowledge that his butt would be on the line every time it flew and he took great care to insure the safety of the construction and maintenance as opposed the the certified factory airplane built by a drunken high school dropout that knew he would never be flying in any of the airplanes he didn?t torque the bolt or safety wire anything he built. I feel like that applies to most homebuilt airplanes and would be proud to claim I had actually built an airplane. Maybe some day I will be able to say that but for now I fly a 6a that I bought.
 
I am proud to sport the experimental branding. It?s a trophy that is hard earned. I fly a lot of new acquaintances on Samaritan?s trips and nobody has expressed concern or hesitation about it.
 
As I have never seen a Warbird with the "EXPERIMENTAL" placard, the desire was to omit it from my replica.
We can live with it if there is no other option.
Lotta warbirds out there with Experimental placards out there, just gotta look for them; in a T-28 for example, the placard can be kinda hidden unless you?re up on the wing looking in.

If you see a T-28, it?s most likely Experimental Exhibition as there are only a handful of ships registered as a NA-260 Nomad with a Standard Airworthiness. The AT-6/Harvard fleet is a mix; US built ships are Standard while Canadian built Harvards are Exp Exhibition. Then there are the ?working? warbirds like TBMs, A-26s, B-17s, P-51s, etc, ships that were earning a living after the war as sprayers, fire bombers, aerial survey, etc. Many of these were issued a Limited Airworthiness certificate... which also requires a ?Limited? placard near the door or an ?NLxxx? N number.

Then there are the rare, random types like the SBD Dauntless, P-47s, F4Us... Experimental Exhibition.

A question for Mel; we have a Experimental Exhibition T-28 with a ?normal? N number and an Experimental placard on the side. Is it a big deal to change over to a NX tail number and scrape off the placard? Is it just a labeling thing or does the FAA need a new registration, Ops Lims and Airworthiness Certificate? Just curious...
 
A question for Mel; we have a Experimental Exhibition T-28 with a ?normal? N number and an Experimental placard on the side. Is it a big deal to change over to a NX tail number and scrape off the placard? Is it just a labeling thing or does the FAA need a new registration, Ops Lims and Airworthiness Certificate? Just curious...

The "X" simply replaces the "Experimental" placard. There is no change to the registration or any paperwork. The "X" doesn't show up anywhere except on the aircraft itself and is not used in any communications.
 
I have only a passing understanding of this particular set of rules so I may very well be wrong, but... I don't think just having an "NX" tail number allows you to not display the Experimental. I will be very curious to see what Mel can dig up.

To the OP, why don't you put the experimental on the top of longerons? It is visible to the passenger during boarding (which is a requirement as I recall) but is not visible with the canopy closed when the aircraft is parked or during flight. I have seen many warbirds with that configuration.
 
I have only a passing understanding of this particular set of rules so I may very well be wrong, but... I don't think just having an "NX" tail number allows you to not display the Experimental. I will be very curious to see what Mel can dig up.

45.22(b)A small U.S. registered aircraft..........may be operated without displaying marks in accordance with 45.21 and 45.23 if:
(ii)The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft(...."X", experimental) followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft; and.......
45.23(b) is what requires the "experimental" placard. I'm not going to type the entire FAA part. Read it for yourself.

I don't have to "dig it up". I deal with it every day.
 
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Learning to love my Placard

The best part of the "Experimental" placard is gleefully signing my aircraft logbook while watching the certified guys write a fat check to an IA for their annual..! That's the REAL RV Grin..! And as they say, the Ark was build by amateurs...the Titanic was built by professionals...... :D
 
I will caution you about using the ?X?.

Even though it is perfectly legal, it does not mean that you wont run into issues.

It took my DAR longer to agree it was ok to use the ?X? than the time he spent looking my airplane over. I had to teach him the regs.

At the reno air races i was denied tech inspection because they did not have a clue about it. Even after showing them the regs, I had to write ?Experimental? with a magic marker on the plane before i was allowed to pass inspection.

I have almost not flown at two airshows because the FAA was going to ground the plane. Even though i showed them the regs. I carry copies of the regs in my airplane to hand out as i expect it to be a problem. In one airshow they told me they were going to issue me new operating limitations because the sentence that says ?Experimental? must be displayed was removed.

It gets very old to have to defend something that is legal to do. Especially when someone else holds the hammer and they are ?right?.
 
45.22(b)A small U.S. registered aircraft..........may be operated without displaying marks in accordance with 45.21 and 45.23 if:
(ii)The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft(...."X", experimental) followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft; and.......
45.23(b) is what requires the "experimental" placard. I'm not going to type the entire FAA part. Read it for yourself.

I don't have to "dig it up". I deal with it every day.

Looking at 14CFR?45.22(b) I think you could make an argument that it might not apply in all cases.
To paraphrase the reg:
45.22(b) says a small U.S registered aircraft with an experimental certificate issued under 21.191(g)(EAB) that has the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying certain markings if:
45.22(b)(ii) it has a C, L, R or X as appropriate followed by the N and some other limitations.

Ok, given all that above, a guy who built an RV-3, 4, or 6 today could easily comply with that.
Could you make the same argument if you were trying to put NX on an RV-10?
I guess the real question is, what is the definition of "same external configuration"? You could pretty easily argue the RV-7, 9, 12 & 14 have the "same external configuration" as the RV-6 and an RV-8 has the "same external configuration" as an RV-4. A quick review of the legal interpretations shows no opinions on the definition of external configuration. The definition and intent of external is pretty obvious but the definition of configuration is broad and neither are addressed in 14CFR?1. I tried to look at the Federal Register to see if I could find the Preamble for 45.22 but the search retuned 50 plus pages of hits and at that point my head exploded.

Out of curiosity I looked at the FAA website about getting an N number. Interesting note at the bottom of the page where it says they don't issue NX, NC, NR or NL numbers any more but it seems they do.
 
I will caution you about using the ?X?.

Even though it is perfectly legal, it does not mean that you wont run into issues.

It took my DAR longer to agree it was ok to use the ?X? than the time he spent looking my airplane over. I had to teach him the regs.

At the reno air races i was denied tech inspection because they did not have a clue about it. Even after showing them the regs, I had to write ?Experimental? with a magic marker on the plane before i was allowed to pass inspection.

I have almost not flown at two airshows because the FAA was going to ground the plane. Even though i showed them the regs. I carry copies of the regs in my airplane to hand out as i expect it to be a problem. In one airshow they told me they were going to issue me new operating limitations because the sentence that says ?Experimental? must be displayed was removed.

It gets very old to have to defend something that is legal to do. Especially when someone else holds the hammer and they are ?right?.

Interesting. I plan to carry AC 20-27G, page 22, Table 6. This makes it very clear as to what you can do.
 
Careful with the X

Interesting. I plan to carry AC 20-27G, page 22, Table 6. This makes it very clear as to what you can do.

Just make a velcro on cover to change EXPERIMENTAL to MENTAL.
Then display as you please.

If your wife rides in the back seat , you could soon have yourself an X.
 
Just make a velcro on cover to change EXPERIMENTAL to MENTAL.
Then display as you please.

If your wife rides in the back seat , you could soon have yourself an X.

Ha! Not much chance of that, as she has made it clear she will not fly with me.
But, all my X's live in Texas.
 
Well, in fairness, the ark was fictional, and the Titanic actually existed...

The Ark was real. Just like the Titanic. But the Titanic was under the command of Captain Smith, a highly experienced professional.

Just shows that the pros don't always get it right.

Might ask Boeing if they always get it right...
 
Proudly Experimental

Even Boeings are Experimental AC until they are granted a type cert.

"In the middle of the stall, you still have control over the wing," said Frank Santoni, chief 777 test pilot. "That's how you can get it back to a nonstall position."

The two pilots talked in the airplane's cockpit, days before the jet's maiden flight from Paine Field in Everett. Santoni would be co-pilot.

On the control panel in front of them, a small label read: "Boeing 001 Experimental."

You might get your wife on board your RV after phase 1 is complete.
Getting there might be easier if you don't rub the DAR with the x rules and regs.
YMMV

My 25 cents says all US registered experimental AC should be a November Xray (NX) registration with no exceptions. It would save a LOT of comm time. If the controller wants more info he will ask. After the ads-B is in effect it should become a non issue.

Good luck
 
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Even Boeings are Experimental AC until they are granted a type cert.

"In the middle of the stall, you still have control over the wing," said Frank Santoni, chief 777 test pilot. "That's how you can get it back to a nonstall position."

The two pilots talked in the airplane's cockpit, days before the jet's maiden flight from Paine Field in Everett. Santoni would be co-pilot.

On the control panel in front of them, a small label read: "Boeing 001 Experimental."

Tell your wife to get over it...

She is actually a good sport. Never refused to fly with me in the 777, and she has enthusiasm for the aircraft. Just does not want to be a "back seater".
 
I feel like there at so many builders that don't want people to know their aircraft is an amateur-build experimental. They call it custom-built, and try to minimize the home-built nature of it. For myself, I am proud to have an EAB aircraft and display that Experimental sticker proudly. Mel noted at my inspection that I could remove the placard and add the X. I may do that one day, but for now, I like it just the way it is.

Just to note, that comment was not directed at the OP, just a general observation.

You live in the North Texas FSDO area so NEVER take it there for anything because you'll leave with a grounded aircraft like mine. I just went in to get a new AW certificate after a N number change and they left out where I can fly at night so I'm ground to day flights only. After months fighting with them about this and two other equally stupid things that they could fix in about 30 minutes, filing a complaint with Washington, having the FAA Quality Control branch show them what to do, and finally have my Senator contact the FAA, I finally got a supervisor to contact mew last week. I told him what to fix and he said they'd fix it. One week later and they still haven't done anything. My next step is get an attorney to sue the inspector personally. Keep working with Mel who seems to know what he's getting paid for unlike our federal tax paid government employees at the FAA.
 
Just make a velcro on cover to change EXPERIMENTAL to MENTAL.
Then display as you please.

If your wife rides in the back seat , you could soon have yourself an X.

You should have seen the face of my girlfriend the first time she was getting in the back of my RV-8. She didn't know the baggage compartment was behind her and she read where it says right above the seat " Rear Baggage Maximum Weight" ( the rest was covered by the back seat). She's under the max weight but didn't like being called baggage !
 
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