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my crash debriefing

Sunrise Aviation teaches turn around on takeoff to student pilots. The attitude about the turnaround has changed 180 degrees in the last few years. Barry Schiff and his son do forums on this. AOPA recently did a feature article on this recently as well as EAA.
The RV4 guy in FL who has an aural angle of attack system is doing turnarounds with the RV4 from 400'. Videos available.

...and if you read the articles, what you find is that the "impossible turn" is very dependent on the pilot, training, and experience level. Executing a 45-60 degree bank turn at less than 500' for more than 180 degrees to get back to the runway, then an opposite turn to line up, followed by a landing with a tailwind...

Can it be done? Depending on the plane and pilot, yes. I would say, given my instructor experience, that the pilots who can safely accomplish it are in the small minority, and actively practice the maneuver. It's aways better to fly as far into the crash as you can, the airplane can be replaced...
 
Where is Ironflight?

Sunrise Aviation teaches turn around on takeoff to student pilots. The attitude about the turnaround has changed 180 degrees in the last few years. Barry Schiff and his son do forums on this. AOPA recently did a feature article on this recently as well as EAA.
The RV4 guy in FL who has an aural angle of attack system is doing turnarounds with the RV4 from 400'. Videos available.

The thrust from an idling fixed pitch prop is VASTLY different than real world wildly variable engine out drag possibilities.

I recall a great response from Paul a number of years ago regarding actual stats of turn around attempts vs staright ahead into wind on what ever you can land on. Apart from the stark, blunt truth that the vast majority of actual return to runway attempts end very badly vs mostly straight ahead was the closing line.

Are you feeling lucky?

But practice frequently if you must and hopefully nobody will never attempt the impossible... BS

One of my water flying instructors had over 30,000 hours on type. He taught and practiced the turn back as a part of his standard training. As a result IMHO he had more practice and was more current than anybody has ever been on in that airframe.
A few years ago when the power faded shortly after takeoff on climb out the options were straight ahead onto a four lane /divided highway with 2 lanes going his direction, or the 180 back to the airfield.

He and the student /owner did not survive. They got mostly turned around but stuck the hull deep into the earth and bounced back out several feet.
 
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The thrust from an idling fixed pitch prop is VASTLY different than real world wildly variable engine out drag possibilities.

I recall a great response from Paul a number of years ago regarding actual stats of turn around attempts vs staright ahead into wind on what ever you can land on. Apart from the stark, blunt truth that the vast majority of actual return to runway attempts end very badly vs mostly straight ahead was the closing line.

Are you feeling lucky?

But practice frequently if you must and hopefully nobody will never attempt the impossible... BS

One of my water flying instructors had over 30,000 hours on type. He taught and practiced the turn back as a part of his standard training. As a result IMHO he had more practice and was more current than anybody has ever been on in that airframe.
A few years ago when the power faded shortly after takeoff on climb out the options were straight ahead onto a four lane /divided highway with 2 lanes going his direction, or the 180 back to the airfield.

He and the student /owner did not survive. They got mostly turned around but stuck the hull deep into the earth and bounced back out several feet.

Yep, it is also very, very different when something happens for real versus simulating it. I typically show the turn to my students to discourage it, rather than to encourage it...
 
My lessons

I had 800 hours of rv-9a time in the four years going into phase 1. I had a ground brief and BFR with an ATP mentor the week prior. We discussed “flying it into the ground” if needed.

What I didn’t have was:

1. A discipline for 18 gallons each tank for each one hour of flight (each test flight was 1 hr limited)
2. A discipline to use the “S” in GUMPS and CIGARS to always switch on the wig/wag and boost pump switches on t/o and approach
3. Better panel ergonomics so that my engine restart boldface items can be done blindly, by feel, near my thumb and throttle
4. A helmet

I am sorry this debrief caused so much angst and criticism. I am at fault of course. The purpose is just to highlight the importance of the boost pump for those that trained initially in high wing Cessna’s like me, in the prior decades.
And to highlight boldface items can be armchair practiced at home with good effect (I hope).

Circumstances can trap any of us, as the Lake Berryessa crash of the Icon plane showed (http://lakeberryessanews.com/past-stories/final-report-on-icon-a5.html)

Safe flying
Cal
 
...and if you read the articles, what you find is that the "impossible turn" is very dependent on the pilot, training, and experience level. Executing a 45-60 degree bank turn at less than 500' for more than 180 degrees to get back to the runway, then an opposite turn to line up, followed by a landing with a tailwind...

The requirement for the "impossible turn" isn't a squeaker on the centerline.

The goal is survival. Put the airplane down under control, with a reasonable rate of descent, and don't hit anything hard. If you need to perform the "impossible turn" to do that, fine, even if you wipe the gear off in a ditch. Everything better than that is a bonus.
 
I had 800 hours of rv-9a time in the four years going into phase 1. I had a ground brief and BFR with an ATP mentor the week prior. We discussed “flying it into the ground” if needed.

What I didn’t have was:

1. A discipline for 18 gallons each tank for each one hour of flight (each test flight was 1 hr limited)
2. A discipline to use the “S” in GUMPS and CIGARS to always switch on the wig/wag and boost pump switches on t/o and approach
3. Better panel ergonomics so that my engine restart boldface items can be done blindly, by feel, near my thumb and throttle
4. A helmet

I am sorry this debrief caused so much angst and criticism. I am at fault of course. The purpose is just to highlight the importance of the boost pump for those that trained initially in high wing Cessna’s like me, in the prior decades.
And to highlight boldface items can be armchair practiced at home with good effect (I hope).

Circumstances can trap any of us, as the Lake Berryessa crash of the Icon plane showed (http://lakeberryessanews.com/past-stories/final-report-on-icon-a5.html)

Safe flying
Cal

Cal, you could have single-handedly saved 100 children from a school fire and you will get a lot of coulda-shoulda from the peanut gallery!

All the feedback here is us armchair quarterbacks learning, advising, and trying to apply what happened to you to our own situation. I'm sure some of it's a bit hard to read - and of course the real tone does not come through the mails - it seems much harsher than it is.

Sharing your experience here has been extremely helpful for a lot of people - most of them are nowhere near as experienced as you or some of the commentators. And they are not commenting, but they are learning.

Thanks again for sharing your story - as uncomfortable as it was to experience the event and this discussion, you have most certainly saved at least one person from an even worse fate.
 
Thanks Mickey

Sorry. You always second guess yourself, and I made a lot of mistakes. I just don’t want to make them again. Thanks for you comments.
 
Turn

The requirement for the "impossible turn" isn't a squeaker on the centerline.

The goal is survival. Put the airplane down under control, with a reasonable rate of descent, and don't hit anything hard. If you need to perform the "impossible turn" to do that, fine, even if you wipe the gear off in a ditch. Everything better than that is a bonus.

I stand by my post. Most people I have worked with or evaluated over the years would be better off not attempting that turn. I continue to teach it as an illustration of what is required to make it work…
 
I stand by my post. Most people I have worked with or evaluated over the years would be better off not attempting that turn. I continue to teach it as an illustration of what is required to make it work…

I think your post was fine. I was commenting that we don't need to get locked into the idea that the "Impossible Turn" has to end up as a squeaker on the centerline of the runway. Putting it down on pretty much any flat, unobstructed area (i.e. much of the airport) is preferable to hitting the shopping center, river, trees, or whatever "don't go there" place may be at the end of the runway.
 
Accident chain of events

An interesting thread, many important points and insights into how to manage early Phase 1 flying issues and deal with the possible but unexpected.
Many aviation accidents have a chain of events that go back in time where decisions were made to work around a problem or failure without a clear understanding of the added risk that are carried forward with that decision - good example in this case would be moving forward to fly without operative fuel gages. Another issues is doing performance and flight test measurements without the airplane in the correct configuration - good example would be performance measurements without wheel pants and strut covers unless the intention is to never install wheel pants and strut covers. In a past life being part of a team making a decision that we are ready to fly was a really big shared responsibility with lots of pressure to "just go do it" - in the home builder world it comes down to just you - mostly. Building your own checklists and procedures ( and who's opinion you respect and what checks and balances you want for "ready to fly clearance" should be a critical part of the build process. It takes real determination to say "we are not ready to fly".
High on the list of things you did right.
Chose a location to do early Phase 1 that had a long runway, an operating tower and a fire department. Selected a day with appropriate weather.

There are a lot of lessons learned from this accident.
A critical assessment of the condition and fitness of the airplane, pilot and pilot training is high on my list.
Glad you are getting back in the saddle and moving forward on the next project.

KT
 
Maybe your AOA is different from mine, where a solid tone means I’m at stall speed. A pulsating tone indicates I’m approaching stall.

I wish there was an industry standard where the tone went from solid to chopped as AOA increases. That is what we had in the A-10. But my Dynon does the opposite...it starts with a chopped tone that increases in frequency until it becomes a solid tone. I might change the wording on this. In and out of the chopped to solid tone would probably be a better way to turn the aircraft with a margin of safety below stall AOA.
 
I wish there was an industry standard where the tone went from solid to chopped as AOA increases. That is what we had in the A-10. But my Dynon does the opposite...it starts with a chopped tone that increases in frequency until it becomes a solid tone. I might change the wording on this. In and out of the chopped to solid tone would probably be a better way to turn the aircraft with a margin of safety below stall AOA.

A lot of us that fly with AOA, have it set up so that on final approach, we are hearing a steady repeat of the slowest tone frequency. In that case, if the frequency increases, you know, the AOA is increasing, and if the tone stops you know that AOA has decreased. It makes it very easy to keep AOA right where you want it to be.
If it was the way you would prefer, I would have to listen to a steady tone the entire duration of final approach.
I hope they don’t make any change to that as a standard, or at the very least, they leave it user configurable.
 
Attached is the error chain that they taught during our latest crew resource management training. At least 4 of these links have been found in every major aircraft accident. In this particular accident I think we can highlight the following:

Fixation or Preoccupation - You were focused on your CHT, and ignored other factors affecting your flight (time spent on a single tank, time spent in flight, etc.)

Confusion - Wasn't sure of aircraft system operation or failure modes of fuel delivery circuit.

No one flying the aircraft - Entered stall and secondary stall in close proximity to the ground.

No One Looking Out the Window - Granted this list is designed for a crew, not single pilot operations, but runway choice may have been different if there was more heads-up flying and less time spent heads down looking at the CHTs.

Use of Undocumented Procedures/Departure from SOP - It sounds like you didn't have a written checklist for swapping tanks, so you missed the step to turn on the boost pump. It also sounds like you didn't have an emergency engine out restart checklist to follow.

Unresolved Discrepancies - Fuel level indicators were non-functional.

Failure to meet targets - Didn't swap tanks at the pre-determined time. Didn't land before estimated time to run a single tank dry.

I'm posting this in hopes that others think about some of these links and ways to break the chain. If you're going to be the test pilot for your aircraft, that means more than just getting behind the stick and pushing the throttle forward. Create and bench fly your checklists before first flight, have emergency procedures in place so you don't have to make them up in the middle of an emergency, use the additional pilot program to be able to offload some tasks, make a plan and stick to it. A lot of great information has been included in this thread, and I appreciate you being so candid about the accident. A lot of accident reports just say "pilot error" and don't provide a whole lot of details that facilitate others learning from the accident.
 

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Unresolved Discrepancies - Fuel level indicators were non-functional. This technically means you took off in an un-airworthy aircraft per 91.205 Day VFR equipment requirements.

Just for clarification....I've seen this statement at least a couple of times in this thread. Has there been a change in Op Lims recently concerning requirements for instruments? The Op Lims I'm familiar with only reference FAR 91.205 for night or IFR flights. There are no requirements for any instruments in day VFR conditions.....unless there has been a fairly recent change in the limitations that are now issued.
 
Just for clarification....I've seen this statement at least a couple of times in this thread. Has there been a change in Op Lims recently concerning requirements for instruments? The Op Lims I'm familiar with only reference FAR 91.205 for night or IFR flights. There are no requirements for any instruments in day VFR conditions.....unless there has been a fairly recent change in the limitations that are now issued.

I'm headed to the hangar tonight, I'll double-check my op limits to see what they say. I've edited the previous statement for now until I can verify. But realistically, it doesn't matter what my limits say, it matters what his say. So i've deleted the mention of 91.205.
 
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Fuel gages

I think the issue is if the equipment is installed it must be operative unless you have a minimum equipment list.
Some of the certificated Pitts aircraft have aux tanks that do not have gages.
 
Checklists

Checklists are supposed to be used to verify after some or all of the items are done from memory. 700' AGL is not a place to be reading a checklist. Lower the nose and trim has no place on a checklist.
Had the boost pump been on as it should have been, only one addition item was required-switch tanks.
The CHT issue should have been dealt with before the second flight. My guess is inadequate fuel flow which is usually dealt with by drilling the fuel nozzle or installing a different nozzle.
 
I think the issue is if the equipment is installed it must be operative unless you have a minimum equipment list. ……

FAR 91.213 is more complicated than that. I am not a lawyer but my reading of 91.213 is that an EAB flying with inoperative equipment like this is legal, as long as (91.213 (d)(3)) the fuel gauge was “deactivated and placarded inop.”
 
Thanks for the replies

I did have an engine restart Boldface, including boost pump but didn’t have time to do it (was not automatic or pre- switched at 5 mile call-in/1500 feet GUMPS check as Scott mentioned. Down low your options narrow very fast). The high CHTs were normal ops for new engine break-in. My propeller pitch likely should have been finer pitch to allow full throttle (ground adjustable) without high CHTs. The fuel tanks sensors were working on the ground and for the DAR inspection- but again the “ inflight calibration” data points were fewer than on the ground. In a new plane that is what phase 1 is all about- working out the gremlins. Not stalling is of course the goal, but I stalled at 59 knots which was high in retrospect- maybe the 20 degree bank away from structures/people/fuel depot- and maybe Vs glider configuration with no thrust at all. I of course didn’t expect or want to stall /spin. Quite surprising and rapid when it occurs. I totally agree on the Swiss cheese accident chain idea. Sometimes it is easier in retrospect. Thanks again for all the great comments.
Cal
 
I suspect your pitot static calibration was off a bit. 20 degrees off AOB should have made less than a 2kt difference in stall speeds. Had you reached the point where any stall testing was performed. If so what speeds did you see?
Edit: Before everyone jumps on me yes I understand bank angle is irrelevant to stall speed. I am assuming level flight. It’s possible that as the ground approached G and a consequent increase in AOA May have been a contributing factor.
 
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From the pictures, the left flap was damaged in the crash, but the right flap is retracted both on the ground at the crash site and on the trailer. Assuming you were in the clean config in flight, the stall speed is just over 50 knots (http://cafe.foundation/v2/pdf_cafe_apr/rv-9a.pdf). So you've got an 18% margin on stall speed. That margin is completely taken away by pulling ~1.4 g's. I can understand how that happens during emergency maneuvers, especially in a banked turn.
 
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Checklist

Lets take "lower the nose, adjust the trim to the extreme". A private pilot check ride should include a go around from 50' on final. Likewise a Flight Review.
Do you SERIOUSLY expect to be allowed to use a checklist for either scenario??
Lets look at "the miracle on the Hudson". Did Capt Sully call for a double engine failure on takeoff checklist. I know nothing about the Airbus but it is highly unlikely that a double engine failure on takeoff checklist or procedure even existed.
Once again a checklist is not a "do list". It is verification that the pertinent items have already been accomplished.
There have been a few pertinent, well though out responses to the unfortunate accident. Unfortunately there are too many who I respectfully submit could not pass a Private checkride or Flight Review.
 
Lets look at "the miracle on the Hudson". Did Capt Sully call for a double engine failure on takeoff checklist. I know nothing about the Airbus but it is highly unlikely that a double engine failure on takeoff checklist or procedure even existed.

Without commenting on the rest of it... one did, and he did! Check out the CVR transcript, it's an interesting read.
 
Checklist

The info that I found stated this was a high altitude engine failure checklist and that some items were not relavent or in the wrong order for the LGA accident.
The premise that one would call for a double engine failure checklist at 500' AGL at Chicago Midway is absurd.
My point remains that far too many commenters do not understand the proper use of checklists.
 
Thanks

Thank you, thank you for having the guts to put this out on the forum. Criticism is hard to bear but the pilots that this discussion might save will be well worth it. This discussion will be in my head during my flights and preflights.
Good on you.
 
One thing to add to the discussion. If the aircraft had a workable audible AOA system it might have helped improve the outcome.
 
Thank you for sharing. It takes guts to post your own crash. One of my biggest concerns is panel design. I like to see all switches necessary for engine and electrical system management directly under the PFD and I prefer them to be lighted rockers with big and bold lettering. I really also like the VP-X power system due to all breakers easily visible through the MFD.

My rule for all flights in small planes is full tanks for every flight. I leave off passengers or bags, but never fuel. I never trust fuel gauges and rely mostly on my fuel totalizer to tell me how much fuel I have. I also figure 10 GPH block fuel burn (RV14) and time every flight. I compare the timed amount to the fuel totalizer and make sure they are close to agreeing.
 
Full tanks for every flight is simply not practical for how the vast majority of us use our aircraft. It’s quite easy to build an accurate fuel stick to know exactly how much fuel is onboard during preflight. Between that and the gauges and totalizer I am quite comfortable taking off with any fuel load that lets me land with a proper reserve.
G
 
I'm building and about to solo for my PPL. I learned a lot. I think I should look through your slides again about once a quarter. Thank you so much for sharing. It's the golden nugget that you found to keep others from following this specific path. You included so much thought process and detail that it will stick.

I bet you save several peoples' lives.

You are a part of what makes the aviation community worth the price of admission. And more!
 
Anyone wearing helmet? I am getting one after seeing the pilot at WHP getting badly cutup after crash landed his Cessna on the railroad track. The OP had similar head injuries.
I have never flown SuzieQ without my helmet. It made perfect sense to me to have one on from the beginning, especially functioning as a test pilot. I would be flying a brand-new, never-been-flown airplane and me, being a (did I mention) test pilot with a lot of hours but not much in the RV series. Obviously, things worked out just fine: we taught each other about what it is like to fly an RV-4. Best-flying airplane on the market...!;)

I guess I never considered flying without a helmet after Phase 1 was over. It took no getting used to and is amazingly comfortable. I would feel rather naked without it! There is a 3 inch space from my head to the canopy and 1/4" of plexiglass between my pumpkin head and whatever is going by the (now possibly broken) canopy. Just another layer of protection. Have we talked about bird strikes? :oops::oops::oops: Someone posted that helmets cost $3-4000! Where were they looking?? Look up Bonehead helmets, Flighthelmets.com as options. There are others. Bicycle helmets are NOT adequate for protecting your noggin at crash speeds with broken shards of plastic flying by. Why spend $10-25,000 on that fancy panel and not spend $2k on your own safety? That's less than some of the glass that is in your panel. I am not trying to look like Mavrick. I'm trying to limit what happens if the noise stops and I happen to land where I was not planning. IMHO; YMMV.

Switch placement: my fuel pump switch is on my throttle panel, just in front of the cluster and just below the carb heat handle. Handy and visible with a panel light that is labeled FUEL PUMP that is bright ORANGE and near the ASI. When I am checking speeds in the pattern, I can't help but see the orange light. Go around: hand pushes the throttle forward which then hits the carb heat handle which then hits the (already on) boost pump switch. Switching tanks every 30 minutes: boost pump on is just part of that routine.

Picture: the throttle and mixture handles have been painted since this was taken. :rolleyes: The nob next to the carb heat is the oil cooler gate control and the label is on the side panel. :)
 

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I purchased a brand new HGU HALO helmet for just over $400 from Ebay. The helmet is used by the SOP guys jumping from the back of the C130. It doesn't have all the fancy visor, high quality speaker, and oxygen setup. I then added the headsetinc noise canceling. The entire thing is less than $800. It's great deal compare to the full feature military helmet.
 
Fuel pump on/off switch. Can't tell y'all how often I actually looked for it even though it was muscle memory. I too felt it was a safety issue and stumbled across 3D Stick and Rudder looking for alternatives since I wasn't ready for an Infinity grip just yet. Found his P-51A/B Mustang throttle ball with a PTT switch installed... https://www.3dstickandrudder.com/shop/p-51-mustang-throttle-configuration-with-ptt-vans-rv-4-rv-88a. I called Paul up and asked if he could design an off-on switch that lit up when on to fit into the ball that was suitable for a fuel pump. A few days later he let me know that yes, he could do it and gave me a price. I received it maybe a week later and wow is it fantastic! The fuel pump is right under my thumb now and given that it lights up when on I can both tactiley and visually confirm if it is on or off. I worked it into my workflow for start/takeoff/tank switch and landing and now it's just one less thing that will go wrong. Pics show off (dark) and on (lit). Paul doesn't show this setup on his website but I've already paid for the research if anyone likes the idea.

20220115_161340323_iOS.pngp.png
 
The fuel pump is right under my thumb now and given that it lights up when on I can both tactiley and visually confirm if it is on or off.
How do you see the light if it's under your thumb? With the light that far out of your normal field of view, can it effectively operate as a reminder that it's on? It seems that a light on the panel would be much more effective.
 
Hi there.....if it helps I have 23000 hrs and 42 years in aviation and I'm still learning. We study many accidents and incidents during fleet refreshers and emergency procedures requalifications. how we learn is by the sharing of information. sorry to hear of the accident and glad you are ok. It is admirable to share your experience so others can learn. Good on you. Amazingly these issues still occur in 3 hundred million aircraft and above!. human factors...automation...even down to switch placement....still causes incidents and accidents...
Nothing to comment on other than the swiss cheese lined up and you fell through the gap....it happens to the best. Now we have something to consider when setting up our aircraft at your cost....so truly.....thank you for sharing.
 
Hi there.....if it helps I have 23000 hrs and 42 years in aviation and I'm still learning. We study many accidents and incidents during fleet refreshers and emergency procedures requalifications. how we learn is by the sharing of information. sorry to hear of the accident and glad you are ok. It is admirable to share your experience so others can learn. Good on you. Amazingly these issues still occur in 3 hundred million aircraft and above!. human factors...automation...even down to switch placement....still causes incidents and accidents...
Nothing to comment on other than the swiss cheese lined up and you fell through the gap....it happens to the best. Now we have something to consider when setting up our aircraft at your cost....so truly.....thank you for sharing.
Almost the same numbers here, and entirely agree with your comments.

My 2ct on practice...

Departure:
Boost pump ON prior to the run-up, OFF with the CLIMB Check which happens like 5 miles out and minimum 2K AGL
Arrival:
Triggered by the APPROACH Check, 10 miles out, Boost pump ON

Though I have written checklists off my AFM, I never use them... the paper ones that is. All of them are organized using flow patterns and therefore easy by heart items.
Example, LINE-UP Check, 7 items (no take-off until 7 done):
1 Canopy closed/locked
2 Landing light ON
3 Boost pump ON
4 Mixture RICH
5 Prop FULL RPM (or noise reduction set)
6 Fuel selector SET
7 Flaps SET

So my hand will touch each item whilst counting up, all whilst performing a natural flow for my panel configuration, starting up, then left to right, then down (manual flaps on mine).
Caution, this technique works for me (and has been adopted by a few colleagues around here) and my airplane, but might not be for you. And use the checklist adapted for the aircraft you fly.

There has been plenty of good advice and observations thru this thread, thanks to the OP for his honest sharing, all the best for the future.
 
Almost the same numbers here, and entirely agree with your comments.

My 2ct on practice...

Departure:
Boost pump ON prior to the run-up, OFF with the CLIMB Check which happens like 5 miles out and minimum 2K AGL
Arrival:
Triggered by the APPROACH Check, 10 miles out, Boost pump ON

Though I have written checklists off my AFM, I never use them... the paper ones that is. All of them are organized using flow patterns and therefore easy by heart items.
Example, LINE-UP Check, 7 items (no take-off until 7 done):
1 Canopy closed/locked
2 Landing light ON
3 Boost pump ON
4 Mixture RICH
5 Prop FULL RPM (or noise reduction set)
6 Fuel selector SET
7 Flaps SET

So my hand will touch each item whilst counting up, all whilst performing a natural flow for my panel configuration, starting up, then left to right, then down (manual flaps on mine).
Caution, this technique works for me (and has been adopted by a few colleagues around here) and my airplane, but might not be for you. And use the checklist adapted for the aircraft you fly.

There has been plenty of good advice and observations thru this thread, thanks to the OP for his honest sharing, all the best for the future.
Too right. flows are King. I’m right in the middle of that now. Trying to de bus and re Boeing! Lol. Love the Boeing. About to head to the 787 sim so just practiced the flows over and over and over in the inflight procedures trainer along with NNC’s…..love the electronic checklist. That’s a point….is there an electronic checklist available for light aircraft? I have not yet investigated my avionics package yet but wouldn’t that be a great bit of kit.

yes too often people are embarrassed about fessing up to mistakes. We know only too well there is never the perfect flight. In fact the more experience I get the more I realise I know less than I think I do. The OP has highlighted something that might save another from the same fate. Flows and checklists……I’ll be writing them for my 7…..or finding an electronic checklist I can click off…..
 
is there an electronic checklist available for light aircraft
my guess is most EFISs offered today provide the option. At least my G3X does, but I'm not using the function since doing the flows works good for me. Besides I sure wanna keep my outside scan in the pattern by doing a quick flow, rather than clicking items off, and respecting a flow... but again, what works for me might not for others.
The line-up checklist posted above is my longest one I use. The climb or approach flows only contain 3 items, the run-up 6, and the emergencies maximum 4, but for ditching which has a few more.

PS
Enjoy the line swift12, been ret for a few years now, enjoying every second of it :cool:
 
The blind cockpit drill is also used for night operations. In the military, bold face ( emergency procedure actions) are memorized because in an emergency, you’re stressed and it’s time to act and know the correct procedure. During the pre brief…military flight students would have to stand up if called upon and recite the emergency procedure actions, if any part of the response is incorrect, they get a pink slip for the day and do not fly. Another point to emphasize, in any emergency, pause for a few seconds and analyze the emergency. M A T …maintain aircraft control, analyze the situation and take proper action…I have read of 2 instructor pilots with an engine emergency, rush the analysis portion and shut down their only good engine, resulting in a crash…thanks for sharing this post…good for a review for all, even if not in test flight phase….in the next 12 months or so, I hope to do this testing….i didn’t think of it, but I will be wearing one of my flight helmets.
 
The blind cockpit drill is also used for night operations. In the military, bold face ( emergency procedure actions) are memorized because in an emergency, you’re stressed and it’s time to act and know the correct procedure. During the pre brief…military flight students would have to stand up if called upon and recite the emergency procedure actions, if any part of the response is incorrect, they get a pink slip for the day and do not fly. Another point to emphasize, in any emergency, pause for a few seconds and analyze the emergency. M A T …maintain aircraft control, analyze the situation and take proper action…I have read of 2 instructor pilots with an engine emergency, rush the analysis portion and shut down their only good engine, resulting in a crash…thanks for sharing this post…good for a review for all, even if not in test flight phase….in the next 12 months or so, I hope to do this testing….i didn’t think of it, but I will be wearing one of my flight helmets.
Yes we use Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. heavy emphasis on one pilot doing the aviate part….but we are two crew…which is a skill in itself learning to integrate with another pilot. Memory items are in bold also….however with modern multi function displays are becoming fewer and fewer….one day there will be no memory items….just a checklist to tell you what you have not done. Which will be great because although memory items are important and must be well practised for motor skills and instant recall….it’s still relying on memory in a stressful situation.
 
my guess is most EFISs offered today provide the option. At least my G3X does, but I'm not using the function since doing the flows works good for me. Besides I sure wanna keep my outside scan in the pattern by doing a quick flow, rather than clicking items off, and respecting a flow... but again, what works for me might not for others.
The line-up checklist posted above is my longest one I use. The climb or approach flows only contain 3 items, the run-up 6, and the emergencies maximum 4, but for ditching which has a few more.

PS
Enjoy the line swift12, been ret for a few years now, enjoying every second of it :cool:
True….I guess I’m talking multi crew environment so a good scan and flows will suffice. Still might investigate the checklist thing though. Love the Boeing ECL…..if it’s green it’s done….and you don’t talk about it….unlike that French thing we used to talk around the sky. I’ll enjoy the line cheers.

7 years to go for me….might see a command on the 777 yet before then….who knows….sure am looking forward to building stuff in retirement.
 
Thanks for all your expert advice. You can’t train too much for emergencies (need the right reflexes for when the brain wants to revert to lizard mode).
Cal
 
Good information, pictures look tough! Glad you are ok and can give some good information to the rest of us.

Shannon
 
Almost the same numbers here, and entirely agree with your comments.

My 2ct on practice...

Departure:
Boost pump ON prior to the run-up, OFF with the CLIMB Check which happens like 5 miles out and minimum 2K AGL
Arrival:
Triggered by the APPROACH Check, 10 miles out, Boost pump ON

Though I have written checklists off my AFM, I never use them... the paper ones that is. All of them are organized using flow patterns and therefore easy by heart items.
Example, LINE-UP Check, 7 items (no take-off until 7 done):
1 Canopy closed/locked
2 Landing light ON
3 Boost pump ON
4 Mixture RICH
5 Prop FULL RPM (or noise reduction set)
6 Fuel selector SET
7 Flaps SET

So my hand will touch each item whilst counting up, all whilst performing a natural flow for my panel configuration, starting up, then left to right, then down (manual flaps on mine).
Caution, this technique works for me (and has been adopted by a few colleagues around here) and my airplane, but might not be for you. And use the checklist adapted for the aircraft you fly.

There has been plenty of good advice and observations thru this thread, thanks to the OP for his honest sharing, all the best for the future.
My preference is to do the run-up with the boost pump off.
Since the purpose of the run-up is to confirm everything is working properly, I want to know that the engine driven fuel pump can provide enough fuel flow by its self, for a reasonably high level of power, hence, do the run-up without the boost pump.
Then turn it on afterwards as in your LINE-UP checklist to have it already in my back pocket should the engine driven pump fail during the take-off.
 
Though I have written checklists off my AFM, I never use them... the paper ones that is. All of them are organized using flow patterns and therefore easy by heart items.
Example, LINE-UP Check, 7 items (no take-off until 7 done):
1 Canopy closed/locked
2 Landing light ON
3 Boost pump ON
4 Mixture RICH
5 Prop FULL RPM (or noise reduction set)
6 Fuel selector SET
7 Flaps SET

So my hand will touch each item whilst counting up, all whilst performing a natural flow for my panel configuration, starting up, then left to right, then down (manual flaps on mine).
Pretty much exactly what I do. My list is on my knee board but I have used it for so long I never look at it. It has been committed to my memory and is both muscle and mind memory. And I say it out loud, whether someone is with me or not. It's like words to a song I have sang for decades. :)🎶 And I've never forgotten a step!
 
The blind cockpit drill is also used for night operations. In the military, bold face ( emergency procedure actions) are memorized because in an emergency, you’re stressed and it’s time to act and know the correct procedure. During the pre brief…military flight students would have to stand up if called upon and recite the emergency procedure actions, if any part of the response is incorrect, they get a pink slip for the day and do not fly. Another point to emphasize, in any emergency, pause for a few seconds and analyze the emergency. M A T …maintain aircraft control, analyze the situation and take proper action…I have read of 2 instructor pilots with an engine emergency, rush the analysis portion and shut down their only good engine, resulting in a crash…thanks for sharing this post…good for a review for all, even if not in test flight phase….in the next 12 months or so, I hope to do this testing….i didn’t think of it, but I will be wearing one of my flight helmets.

About once a month, I go out and practice my emergency procedures. It is an attempt to BOLD FACE that bold-face emergency list into my memory. It is pretty much engrained, but I do forget things, which maddens me. Hey: you are better than that! But that is why I PRACTICE the procedures. If an emergency occurs, it's Ok: here we go! #1: FLY THE AIRPLANE! 1a: ASSESS! What is really happening and what do I need to do first? 1b: here are my hands going through The List while I do #1 getting me to #2. I have had several real 'reduction of engine power' events (not in SuzieQ!) and it was interesting to see how I responded. There is a part of me that leans back, arms folded and just observes, somewhat detached, watching how I am going through The List. AVIATE; NAVIGATE; COMMUNICATE. Aviate is making sure I am not bleeding off airspeed while I am preoccupied with The List, hands busy doing things in 'the well-rehearsed pattern'. Navigate: what part of the airspace do I need to aviate to in order to get this airplane safely on the ground? Communicate: last on my list. I am usually too busy doing #1 and #2 to get a frequency up and talk to anyone. And might be the least important in the chain of events that is happening. No one on the ground is going to help me get this airplane on the ground! Depends on what altitude it occurs. Both of mine were low altitude. But Communicate should, of course, still be on The List. One of my 'post-emergency' reviews with myself, I found that I had been 'dancing on the rudders'! That was new and slightly amusing! My mind was apparently wanting feedback from the rudders to assess the control I was having that would not change the direction I was 'navigating' to. In both cases, I did not have to land! 😋

If you are a builder, you should be sitting in the Front Office WAY before you start flying to become familiar with being there. Have your checklists with you and go through them as if you are in front of the hangar about to go flying. When I first took SuzieQ up for our First Flight. I was very familiar with being in the front office! It got me familiar with being there (and is one of my favorite places on the PLANET!) and clicking through the also-new checklists that I would soon be using for real. It made me appreciate the months I spend organizing the (steam gauge) panel I fly behind, but also started the process of constantly modifying my checklists to make 'the flow' better! The worst part was cleaning off the inside of the canopy from me making flying noises!😄😆

I love the call-out of the emergency procedures from the flight students! We should all be so disciplined!

I've never been in SuzieQ without my helmet.

IMHO; YMMV, You be you!
 
My preference is to do the run-up with the boost pump off...........
Absolutely do the run-up with the boost pump off. How else would you verify that the mech pump is actually pumping?

Plus a general comment relevant to this thread: your EARS are a vital sense and can tell you much about the health of the airplane. When I do first cold startup of the day, I leave headset off and canopy open a bit so that I can best hear the engine. If there's a mechanical issue, it typically sounds worst at cold startup. (rod knock, stuck lifter, which should fix itself within a few seconds, etc)

Fuel pump: before engine start and during priming with the pump (fuel injected), you can hear things like pump cavitation--the inlet screen could be clogged, or the pickup in the tank may be clogged or unported. The Facet-style pump (for carb) will also sound different if it's sucking air or not pumping.

If you do this religiously, you'll learn to pick up on nuances related to sound. I even cold-start my cars with the door open and radio off to best hear what's going on mechanically.
 
Absolutely do the run-up with the boost pump off. How else would you verify that the mech pump is actually pumping?
I see the value in testing without the boost pump on. Is there not value in leaving the configuration you had during the runup the same as during the takeoff? Since I'm going to take off with the boost pump on, I like to do the runup with the boost pump on. I've tested the mechanical during taxi, although that's certainly not full power. I wonder if testing boost both on and off during the runup would be best?

I'm sure I've read of a crash that was caused by the boost pump causing too much fuel to get to the engine - I think it was a mooney or bonanza. I'd hate to find out something is wrong when running the boost pump during the takeoff roll.
 
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