fuel tanks

Is it worth buying already completed fuel tanks for $2000, or is dealing with the sealant not that big of a deal?

It's a rite of passage like any other part of the build. Just a different set of annoyances. Certainly not worth $2000 to me to avoid. Heck, you could avoid building the entire plane if you wanted, but that's not the point

Chris

Tanks

YellowJacket RV9 said:

It's a rite of passage like any other part of the build. Just a different set of annoyances. Certainly not worth $2000 to me to avoid. Heck, you could avoid building the entire plane if you wanted, but that's not the point

Chris

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What Chris said.
IMHO...Heck no but I'm pretty cheap.
I agree, it's a right of passage. Don't deprive yourself of the satisfaction. It really is no big deal. Read the tips section on fay sealing and read some builder blogs.

Be a BUILDER, not an ASSEMBLER!

If you can build an airplane, you can certainly build fuel tanks!

Please, let's get back to building airplanes instead of buying a kit and outsourcing everything.

Build your airplane, build your fuel tanks, build your instrument panel,................

Not worth it in my opinion. Yes it was messy, yes it smells bad, but it really is not particularly difficult if you make a careful study of all the posts and builder's logs on the topic. I can say I had no surprises at all.

Building my tanks was messy, messy, messy. And I'd do it again. No way I'd pay someone else to do it. But that's just me.

Tank building tid bits

There are ways to keep the mess under control. You can be sure the pro's don't make a big mess. What's the difference? Experience and not wanting to clean up a mess everytime. How do you get that knowledge without experience? Read VAF, planning, have all tools laid out clean and ready, talk to others who've done it, better yet invite a veteran builder to assist. Here's a few tidbits I recall...

You should have a helper.

Wear two layers of gloves, and peel them/replace them often. Dedicate a full box to the job if you need to.

Dispense the sealant using full size caulking tubes available at hardware or fiberglass supply stores. One or two tubes per work session.

Have a good supply of cleaned rivets ready. I soaked a bunch in MEK overnight, then poured them out onto a paper towel to dry before the work session.

Be sure all the metal surfaces have been "scratched" with scotch bright pad (only on areas that will be covered with sealant). Clean everything with MEK or equiv. and don't touch anything after without gloves on.

Build each tank in two work sessions. Session one is for ribs, session two is for the back baffle. Don't forget to put a dab of sealant from your dispenser onto each rivet tail. The pro's probably do a whole tank in one session, but they can't drink beer at work either.

Don't rush the sealing procedure, but you do need to work steadily as the sealant has a working time of two hours. Time of curing depends on temperature and probably humidity.

Place the completed tank onto the wing (leading edge up so the baffle sealant will "sag" back to make a nice bead along all the baffle corners) and add a few screws to hold it in perfect alignment with the wing so you don't get a twist set in the tank.

All off the top of my head for now. It's really not that bad and the smell is only noticeable at the beginning. The satisfaction of doing it yourself lasts much longer. For everything else there's MasterCard.

Bevan

Tank

Bevan said:

Place the completed tank onto the wing (leading edge up so the baffle sealant will "sag" back to make a nice bead along all the baffle corners) and add a few screws to hold it in perfect alignment with the wing so you don't get a twist set in the tank.

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Use wax paper over the spar before placing the tank. Proseal won't stick to it.
This is kinda sick but I actually started to like the smell!

Also...

the satisfaction of having built the tanks yourself and finding that when you perform the leak tests and the manometer pressure increases or stays put for hours. Priceless.

Like others have said, do build them yourself. You learn by doing it rather than having others do it for you. Enjoy the build.

Don't spare the pro-seal. It's cheap and no judge is going to inspect the inside of your tank for style points. Slather it on there...

I agree that $2K is too much. I wouldn't trade doing my own tanks. Frankly, it was really difficult for me to attack and complete the fuel tanks. It was slow and tedious to me. It was also long work sessions.

But, now that I have them finished, I feel a great sense of accomplishment. Frankly, I don't know what else in the build will mentally test me as much as the tanks did.

I also have more building confidence now. I too considered it a right of passage (that I am glad is behind me).

Build them like a pro..

My advice is to take a small amount of the money you would have spent on having someone else build them and use it to buy the right tools for the job. IMHO, the pre-proportioned cartridges that Vans sells is the easiest way to avoid a big mess. Buy a small pneumatic sealant gun (no gun handle so it fits in tight spots), buy a filet knife for making good filets, buy the mixing attachment for the cartridges (Aircraft Spruce?) that chucks into your electric drill (low speed) for mixing. All in all, this stuff will cost maybe an extra $200 above using the "mix-it-yourself" quart package and popsicle sticks, but it makes the job a whole lot easier and cleaner.

Hiring someone to build your tanks only means you get to blame them later if you have leaks... Don't be a wuss. You can do it properly yourself, as long as you get educated and equipped.

Semco 250-B

Using a Semco Sealant Gun made it almost fun. I like the 250-B which has the paddle trigger. Using the quart can of proseal and a postal scale, you can mix a small quantity and not have to rush.

Messiest job ever!

I fretted and fretted about this. In the end the jobs was just messy to say the least. The info was contradictory at best and would I do it again. NO if I had the money I would farm it out. But then if I had the money I would have had someone build it for me after all this. My tanks don't leak though.
Good luck in your decision.

Things you'll learn while building your fuel tanks:

• How to *try* to get proseal off of anything
• You'll see that it really is possible to consume two Sams Club boxes of nitrile gloves
• You learn to easily calculate ratios of 3:1 for any weight of a substance
• You learn which tee shirts are really important
• You'll learn just how far your spouse is willing to go to see your plane fly
• As mentioned before, you'll start to enjoy the smell and appreciate not just the melange but the bouquet of each of the constituent components
• Most of all you'll learn that a task that seems daunting at first is really easy when you just break it down into smaller chunks.

Build it, says I.

When I do a certification on an RV, you get 10 extra points if you have built your own tanks.

I'll build them for you for $1800.

Send em here. $1600. Hah.

I wouldn't *pay* $2K to have mine built, but I'd *charge* a lot more than that to do someone else's.

My writeup on the build process

I wrote this thread up after I did mine.

If pictures help, look over here at my build log.

Building these wasn't something to fear, and I'm glad I did them myself. They are built right and no leaks!

I had my fuel tanks made by a company specialized in RV fuel tank which I will not name in this thread.
I found the reverting quality really poor and when looking inside the tank itself I was able to see that the stiffeners edges were not demurred at all.
Anyway, I installed them painted the airplane flew and then figured out that both fuel tank were leaking on several rivets...
E-mailed the guy who told me that the warranty was voided and that I should have checked if the tanks were leaking or not prior to install. Well my fault but I thought that a serious company would have leak tested the tanks prior to sending (overseas). So basically I had to redo the work and repaint the wings.
If I had to do it again, I would simply do it by myself, not such a bid deal.
In any case, if you have your fuel tanks assembled by a third part company, do the leak test, it can avoid you some trouble.

My version of a Sealant Gun

Here's my version of a sealant gun for ProSeal. Best of all, it was FREE! And, reusable. The cured ProSeal peels out when you need to use it again. I found these at Target, but I'm sure there are lots of places to get them. I went to Target and asked a pharmacist for some syringes, minus any needles. He was curious why I needed them. The ensuing conversation resulted in him giving me a few for free!



Also, I'll second some earlier comments about the faye sealing method. It greatly reduces the mess. I went through less than 1/2 a box of gloves for both tanks and never ruined a garment.

One more comment... you don't necessarily need to slather gobs and gobs of material in there to do a good job. I don't think the pros do. Here's a photo of the inside of my tank. It held an inflated balloon for over a week, so I'm confident there will be no leaks. The syringe made these nice clean filets a breeze. It also made it very easy to cover each rivet with a sealing blob.

Thanks everybody for the comments. After reading all of these and the previous posts I have decided to tackle it.

pastranafan5 said:

Thanks everybody for the comments. After reading all of these and the previous posts I have decided to tackle it.

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Good for you Dennis! The VERY hardest part is gettng started.

The tongue depressor is only good for mixing IMHO. For applicaton to flanges, I used acid brushes trimmed down to about 1/4" to 3/8" for stiffness. I also used these brushes to apply and smooth the fillets after riveting. 30cc syringes from drugstore.com worked great for applying the bead for the baffle. Mine aren't quite as neat as Bruce's, but I was pleasantly surprised how clean they came out. I haven't fueled mine yet, but they do hold air.

Tanks

longranger said:

Good for you Dennis! The VERY hardest part is gettng started.

The tongue depressor is only good for mixing IMHO. For applicaton to flanges, I used acid brushes trimmed down to about 1/4" to 3/8" for stiffness. I also used these brushes to apply and smooth the fillets after riveting. 30cc syringes from drugstore.com worked great for applying the bead for the baffle. Mine aren't quite as neat as Bruce's, but I was pleasantly surprised how clean they came out. I haven't fueled mine yet, but they do hold air.

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Looks like how I did mine. Tape also.
Fay seal with a bead. I got the huge syringes from a pharmacy. The kind they use in hospitals for liquid food. They have a big nozzle perfect for laying a bead. Plus they fit in a caulking gun. They also work great for measuring primer. Just suck it right from the can. No mess.
For mixing I used plastic cups and sticks.
I did get a little carried away and used 100 % clekos and a 4-40 nut under every one for added grip. It added some work and mess but the parts were really held tight.
Details are in my blog.

You'll have plenty of things later to waste your money on.

The fuel tanks are not hard and you have a real sense of accomplishment when you are done. Even more so when they don't leak.

For me, the best part of my plane is looking at it and saying "I built THAT."